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Ford guys..hot starting problem!!!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by matthew mcglothin, Aug 26, 2010.

  1. matthew mcglothin
    Joined: Mar 3, 2007
    Posts: 970

    matthew mcglothin
    Member

    Alright ..my mind has been boggled enough! Ive got a 60 ford pickup with a 88 ford 302 with a aod behind it. Ive converted t he fuel injection to good ole carb and intake setup .Also has a pertronics dist. and coil.also a eldebrock carb. Heres the problem.........:(..I can get in my truck in the mornining to drive to work and fires right up no problem, but then after driving a few miles to work and reaching operating temp i get to work and pull into my normal parking spot kill the motor and let set a few minutes and try to crank and she wont fire off.she just spins over like shes flooded. I had a local mechanic tell me my fuel was boiling in the carb after setting a few minutes. He said a carb spacer would help greatly. Any of you guys had the problem ???would the spacer help???or is this even my problem?
     
  2. espo35
    Joined: Jul 16, 2010
    Posts: 310

    espo35
    BANNED
    from california

    Grab a can of Carb cleaner or starting fluid and try a shot down the carburetor when it's acting up. If it STILL doesn't start, you have an ignition problem. Heat-soaking increases electrical resistance as well as possibly boiling your fuel.
     
  3. Muttley
    Joined: Nov 30, 2003
    Posts: 18,478

    Muttley
    Member

    I have the same problem with my Comet, as with the area you live in, Fresno is super hot during the Summer (it was 110 yesterday). I'm thinking a carb spacer and some heat shield wrap for the fuel line should take care of it.
     
  4. big bad john
    Joined: Aug 11, 2010
    Posts: 4,727

    big bad john
    Member

    Hi.......Sounds like vapor-lock.....heat build up around fuel lines .....maybe a spacer might help........try to wrap the lines with heat-resistant foil....Big Bad John:D
     

  5. mayerst
    Joined: Mar 3, 2008
    Posts: 23

    mayerst
    Member

    I fixed mine by adding an engine to body ground strap and wraping the starter with a heat shield.
     
  6. brad chevy
    Joined: Nov 22, 2009
    Posts: 2,627

    brad chevy
    Member

    Did you change heads to or just the intake and carb.?
     
  7. matthew mcglothin
    Joined: Mar 3, 2007
    Posts: 970

    matthew mcglothin
    Member

    heads are stock and didnt change them,just intake and carb.
     
  8. brad chevy
    Joined: Nov 22, 2009
    Posts: 2,627

    brad chevy
    Member

    Were the ports on the intake and heads the same size ,makes a big difference,a buddy did the same change on a small block Chevy ,couldn"t figure out why wouldn"t run right ,pulled the intake,ports didn"t match up so he had to get the older heads for the engine,ran perfect.
     
  9. Buck Sharp
    Joined: Oct 30, 2009
    Posts: 224

    Buck Sharp
    Member
    from nebraska

    coil going bad?
     
  10. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,504

    okiedokie
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Ok

    The spacer will be worth a try, if it doesn't help with the problem, at least acceleration will be crisper when it does run. Get one of the penholic [sp?] 4 hole ones. My experience has been the aluminum adds to the heat soak and the one large hole has a negative effect on crispness.
     
  11. matthew mcglothin
    Joined: Mar 3, 2007
    Posts: 970

    matthew mcglothin
    Member

    Thanks for all the help guys ..greatly appeciated!!!!:)I dont think the heads are the problem because this motor runs so great! It idles smooth and runs like a scalded cat!All the ignition components are new. basically everthing is new! any other suggestions???
     
  12. dwaynerz
    Joined: Nov 16, 2006
    Posts: 235

    dwaynerz
    Member

    maybe a fuel pump going bad? had the same prob with mine but in reverse. hard to start cold, but started fine when warm. left me stranded in the driveway thankfully. changed fuel pump and no more pumping gas peddle to get it to start. couple pumps on accelerater now and im gone.
     
  13. matthew mcglothin
    Joined: Mar 3, 2007
    Posts: 970

    matthew mcglothin
    Member

    Im using a electric fuel pump. its brand new.Getting good fuel pressure.The only thing that will start it when hot is to hold the pedal to the floor
     
  14. espo35
    Joined: Jul 16, 2010
    Posts: 310

    espo35
    BANNED
    from california

    I would WAY lean more towards ignition problem than vapor lock. You mentioned all the ignition parts are new. Are they new because you changed them trying to alleviate this current problem?
     
  15. espo35
    Joined: Jul 16, 2010
    Posts: 310

    espo35
    BANNED
    from california

    Oops! I was typing when you posted this.

    If it starts with the pedal to the floor, it's because the engine is flooded. Opening the throttle is letting in more air to offset the excess fuel.

    Your float level is set too high or fuel is leaking past the carburetors' needle and seat.
     
  16. Francisco Plumbero
    Joined: May 6, 2010
    Posts: 2,533

    Francisco Plumbero
    Member
    from il.

    I think you are heating your carb, you mat need some sort of a heat shield under the manifold to shield the carb from the heat, a carb spacer may elevate the carb enough, what intake are you using? Aluminum? Raised runners or low riser? Check your oil for fuel, maybe you are fuel washing your cylinders.
     
  17. espo35
    Joined: Jul 16, 2010
    Posts: 310

    espo35
    BANNED
    from california

    One other thought is to try a fuel pressure regulator between the pump and the carb. Electric fuel pumps often deliver more pressure than a carb float can resist.

    Set it to 2.5 lbs. and give it a try.
     
  18. lorodz
    Joined: Jul 26, 2009
    Posts: 3,728

    lorodz
    Member

    here is what happend to me with my 89 notch back mustang i had about 6 months ago it was a 89 h.o 5.0 mustang motor . i had the same problem and this is what i did to fix it ..and it worked .

    ok 1st make shure your starter is good i bought a brand new one .than wrapped it in heat sheild blanket . than i bought a brand new starter selinoid ,than i bought a duralast gold series 1000 cold cranking amps and 850 reg cranking amps battery.and still had a problem so i took a really good thick guage ground wire and connected it to a really clean part of the motor and connected it to a really clean part of the frame ..

    starter
    heat wrap
    good grounds
    selinoid
    new battery terminals
    new disributor chip
    and nothing worked till i bought the big battery, never had a problem after that ...car would run normal temp and wouldnt wanna start after i shut it off till it sat for 10 -15 minutes ...check your grounds and get the bigger battery it will solve your problem
     
  19. espo35
    Joined: Jul 16, 2010
    Posts: 310

    espo35
    BANNED
    from california

    On the subject of vapor lock.... I've seen it ONCE in thirty-five years of working on cars for a living.

    And I work in California......
     
  20. espo35
    Joined: Jul 16, 2010
    Posts: 310

    espo35
    BANNED
    from california

     
  21. matthew mcglothin
    Joined: Mar 3, 2007
    Posts: 970

    matthew mcglothin
    Member

    No ,they new because of the fuel ing. to carb swap . I pulled the motor from a lincoln town car with 53 k on it. i took the easier and safer route and did away with all the stock dist and module. didnt want to stuff all that mess in my engine compartment.Engine ran just fine when i pulled it from the car and still does. just hard to start when hot. Im a bodyman by trade, motors piss me off. :mad: it seems like it could be either ignition or fuel ....hell right now im baffled .thanks for your help!!!!
     
  22. matthew mcglothin
    Joined: Mar 3, 2007
    Posts: 970

    matthew mcglothin
    Member

    IM using a cheap mr gasket fuel pump from orielys auto parts could it be delivering to much fuel???/ but why does it startso good in the morning???
     
  23. espo35
    Joined: Jul 16, 2010
    Posts: 310

    espo35
    BANNED
    from california

    When the car sits overnight, the pressure in the line drops AND the excess fuel in the cylinders has evaporated.

    If, as you say, the only way to start it hot is to hold the gas pedal to the floor...you ABSOLUTELY are flooding.

    Now, whether it's the float adjustment or too much fuel pressure, I can't tell you.

    Your choices are: Buy a $15 fuel pressure regulator OR a carb kit. I'd start with the regulator because it's cheaper than a kit and much easier to install. If the regulator doesn't help, you'll have to pull the top off the carburetor and either save the regulator or sell it a buddy.


    By the way, bodywork pisses me off as much as engines do you!
     
  24. Blacksmith54
    Joined: Aug 27, 2006
    Posts: 84

    Blacksmith54
    Member
    from Phoenix AZ

    I do both body work and mechanical work I only work on only pre-computer cars I would put on the phoenlic spacer minimium 3/8 to max of 1" as it is most likely a boiling gas issue or thermal transfer to carb base I also own Six 1960 F-100's of which two of them are crewcabs two wide windows two small window and I drive none of them any more my last one I drove I put 1.2 million miles on a 226 I-6 with a 4 speed I forgot how many sets of brakes I did three clutches two rearends two sets of kingpins and I wore out at least two carbs.

    Kevin :cool:
     
  25. matthew mcglothin
    Joined: Mar 3, 2007
    Posts: 970

    matthew mcglothin
    Member

    thanks for your time and imput!!! ill try the spacer first. im picking one up today at a local race parts shop. next iil try the regulator thanks matt
     
  26. matthew mcglothin
    Joined: Mar 3, 2007
    Posts: 970

    matthew mcglothin
    Member

    I took a whif of my oil this morning and it does have a little gas smell to it but very faint:( now what????
     
  27. B Blue
    Joined: Jul 30, 2009
    Posts: 281

    B Blue
    Member

    With all the talk of a carb spacer, I gotta ask, "What's it made of?" Your problem is excess fuel and heat could be the problem. But a spacer made of aluminum will do no good. You need something made of a material that does not transfer heat very readily. Cardboard would do nicely. A stack of gasket material, say a quarter inch (or more) thick would work fine.

    Bill
     
  28. plym_46
    Joined: Sep 8, 2005
    Posts: 4,018

    plym_46
    Member
    from central NY

    Perculation. If you had a owners manual there might even be a few lines in it about starting a car with a hot engine. Most say to open the throttle 1/2 to 3/4 open while cranking the engine.

    Todays gas is more volitile tha older formulations. Volitility is the rae at which a fluid expands and or evaporates. And most will espand before they evaporate. Gas in the float bowl will with under hood temperatures (especially with not air flow like when parked) expand in volume. When it expands enough to over flow the float bowl, it will enter the intake manifold as liquid and cause a floded engine contiition. This may cycle several times as it expands, overflows, then with resifual pressure between the fuel pump and needle and seat will refill, expand, and over flow again. Now not only do you have a flooded engine but an empty fuel line between the pump and the carb.

    A quick fix is to adjust the float/floats a bit lower than factory spec, to give the fuel a bit more room to expand into, without over flowing. A couple of 32nds usually does the trick, the other sugestion regarding slightly lower fuel pressure will help as it will keep the needle ad seat from opening after shut down.


    Sp lower your float/s, lower your fuel pressure, and crank the engine with open throttle when hot.

    A sheet metal heat shield under the float bowl, which created and air gap below and above it will also lessen the expansion and perculation of fuel.

    If you have an electric fan ( I kow they are ot traditional) adjust it so that it says o to a lower temp. This will make some air flow under the hood as the engine cools, which will also keep perculation to a minimum.
     
  29. imnezrider
    Joined: Apr 27, 2010
    Posts: 199

    imnezrider
    Member

    I can do you one better...in 50 years, not once! There's aways another reason. (Texas) ;) First thing is to determine whether it's a spark or fuel problem...basic and not difficult.
     
  30. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,757

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    That sounds like the carb is flooding. If it won't start unless you keep the pedal floored...it is flooding. Now you have to figure out why it's flooding when it's hot.

    Check to see if the carb is percolating fuel into the intake manifold after it is shut down. The classic way to start a flooded car is to floor it until it clears out and let up when it starts. If you see wisps of vapor and drips of fuel in the carb when it happens then you know what's up.

    I'd try setting the float level a little lower. The fuel in the bowl expands when it heats up and then spills over into the intake. A nonmetallic spacer can also help by insulating the carb.

    Change the oil. I had a carb that would flood due to dirt in the gas tank. I was so pissed trying to figure it out that the oil got diluted by the gas. I wiped out a brand new engine with only a couple of hundred miles on it. Don't take a chance on it. An oil change is a hell of a lot cheaper than a new engine.

    I agree 100%
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2010

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