Technical Ford Factory Model A Replacement Frame?

Looking at a Model A frame that looks original...the owner says it was a "factory replacement" thus has no ID numbers...

Does this make sense? Did Ford make factory replacements?

Without numbers, the frame is useless for me as I cant register it, but still interesting.

 

Buy some stamping numbers and letters the correct size and a big hammer.

 

This question may be better suited for the Ford Barn,I would think someone there would know the answer. HRP

 

Sounds fishy and I would not recommend stamping your own numbers on it. And, yes, Ford Barn.

 

Ford sold all kinds of parts as replacements. I don't see any reason they wouldn't sell a whole frame. I've never seen a whole NOS Model A frame, but I would believe it if I did see one. I have an NOS rear crossmember for an A. Never been a rivet in it.

 

I don't know about the factory replacement story, but I recently sold a stock Model A frame that had no numbers stamped in it. This was a perfect frame that had been stored indoors for the past 40 or 50 years. No evidence anywhere of numbers being stamped in it. Lot's of weird and different stuff happened depending where the frame was built and for domestic or export...

 

Yep, strange chit happens. I got a neighbor that took over the assembly line @ the GM Fairfax plant in July of '62. Seems that a large number of '62 2 door Belaires were leaving the line without a vin plate, so they decided that a new line foreman was in order.

I'm with @alchemy it is very likely that Ford had replacement frames, you could literally buy an entire Ford in pieces back then. Also very likely that one would not have a serial number. I would not be afraid to use one if I had access to one, it has got to beat a rusted old frame like mine.

 

My '31 frame has no visible numbers or signs they were ever there. From what I've read they weren't visible with the body on it anyway. The number on the title matches the engine number so I never thought much about it. Back in the day bikes were registered by engine number anyway, not frame number. Some of my bikes never had numbers on the frame, as recently as the '60s. I just thought it was probably the same for cars. It's never been a problem for me in Michigan but I get that it varies state to state.

I certainly wouldn't add my own numbers.

 

I have played with a lot of frames over the years and only one had numbers. I have been led to believe that Canadian frames never had numbers, they went by the numbers on the engine block. But don't quote me n this.

 

Wow. You probably should not give advice.

Stamping a VIN or serial number is a FEDERAL FELONY, if it is not done exactly within the parameters of the law.

 

Right on Canadian frames...
Replacement: A complete Model A frame assembly straight from Ford...catalog says $15.00. You could move up to '32 for another $2.50...but dealer says they're out of stock on both.
I know of one guy who assembled a NOS Model A frame from separate rails and crossmembers, etc., in fairly recent times.
Anyway there seem to ne a lot of frames around, far from the Canadian border, with clean surfaces and no numbers but that will get you nowhere with any competent DMV. State issued assembled car # and plate would seem only legal way to go, with no fear for the future.

 

While you are shopping for number stamps to hammer into the frame, be on the lookout for some stencil numbers corresponding to the type font at your state department of corrections. You could customize that orange jumpsuit you might soon be wearing. Seriously, no matter what a PITA your state DMV process is, don't try a shortcut. We want you on this side of the walls, offering hotrod advice, not legal advice.

 

I am not in to stamping rails...for obvious reasons....

A frame with no numbers is kinda worthless. With good visible numbers, the title process is so much simpler and well...legal.


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Some of you guys should stick to nice safe Volvos. JD is right, and I take his LIFETIME of hot rodding to heart Ford restorers have been selling stamp kits for decades. Besides, never heard someone have a cop ask you to lift the body on the side of the road so he could inspect the numbers

 

^^ I agree; just don't advertise it on an Internet Forum. Oops, too late!

 

Canadian frames did have numbers. My little bro has a 33 or 34 frame from Canadia that I think starts with a C, if I recall correctly.

 

I never met a cop that knew what to look for. Even when side of the road numbers inspections were popular for our old bikes they needed to be shown where to look 8 out of 10, times.

I never suggest breaking a federal law or statute. But in my experience they are not looking for hobbyists, they are looking for the big time professional criminals.

 

I personally know two guys who lost their cars, and had to unload their savings accounts to stay out of jail.

They gambled and lost.

I am in the process of becoming a California Licensed Vehicle Verifier, you know, in the actual state where the OP lives. I know what the laws are here, and at the Federal level. I also know what power CHP has.

It does not matter if a patrol officer knows what to look for. They do not ask you to pull the body on the side of the road. They put you in the back of the cruiser, and have your car towed to their controlled facility, where they dismantle the car, with no obligation whatsoever to you, or the condition of the car, far enough to expose the numbers.

If those are in question, or overtly illegal, YOU DO NOT GET YOUR CAR BACK!

If your numbers are fine, you pay for the impound fee, the tow, storage, and the release fee. Then you get your car back, with any luck, not too screwed up.

If your numbers were hokey, everyone who had possession of the car will be investigated. If a vehicle verifier inspected it, and approved it, he or she will lose his or her license, forfeit the hefty bond that one is required to put up to get the license, and potentially face criminal (felony) charges.

I get that things may be different in South Dakota, where the police might not have the manpower or the time to look for things like this, but neither the OP or I live there. I live in a 46-square-mile city, that has a higher population than your entire state. Here, they have that manpower, and that time.

That is one hell of a gamble to dump $10-80K into a ride, with even slightly questionable provenance.

In my experience, the police are looking for easy targets, not big-time professional criminals. Finding and prosecuting those takes too much time, and requires too much paperwork.

 

Yep you live in a police state. Part of that comes from the professional builders that were registering glass wonders as original Fords. like I said the feds are not looking for hobbyists they are looking for big time criminals. Unfortunately they found them in Calif.

Around here you don't want anyone to know of your car came from a certain city down in the Ozarks. They got caught rolling speedometers back and it is still considered to be the roll back capitol of the nation.

 

You can thank old Boyd for that, and other atrocities.

An neighboring shop to my first location had a tube chassis, fiberglass body, blown Chrysler Hemi "Willys" coupe, registered as the real thing, until they tried to sell it. Now, it is missing, and nobody wants to talk about it....

They could have chosen SB100, but instead they chose weapons-grade-stupid.

 

I've liened cars and titled cars that are out of the system right here in the people's republic of California..I found being polite and asking questions at the DMV solves way more issues than some hokey ass message board...

 

I'd say that is probably the best suggestion of the bunch. GO ask at the dmv not the local license office or even the local cop shop but at a state run dmv office and the higher up the food chain you can get the better. Meaning if you are close to the state capitol go to the one at the state capitol.

Still there are decent original frames with vin numbers out there and one shouldn't be that hard to find.

 

Recent times? or decades ago?

 

All interesting points.

I think the best pieces of advice are be polite and look for a frame with numbers!


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Numberless frames are best left for those stretching numbered frames. I have made use of a few for that purpose.

 

I'm not suggesting using one frame over another, but what do people do when they put American stamping or any other reproduction frame under their car? There has to be a legal way of upgrading a tired or bent frame to new rails that have no numbers on them.


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@Murocmaru I think people swap the frame after the title issues have been resolved.

Maybe keep the original titled frame then?

That's what I would do.


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Yup. Blue sticker from CHP.

 

You can probably find ways to get away with restamps, bought paperwork, etc. but the problem here is that the serial number is something that can turn around and bite you later...maybe when you sell the car, maybe if it is stolen and recovered and carefully verified by the cops, maybe because you adopted a number like A-#### and someone registers the REAL A-#### car with proper Ford stamp, maybe even if you have a totalled accident and insurance company decides to verify car carefully before handing you a pile of money.
Bang. There you are with an illegally restamped frame or a number from a flea market title or whatever five years down the road simply because someone does the job DMV slopped up carefully. And there you are with a suddenly title-less car and no money, and perhaps a cop asking you pointed questions about how that number got on your car.

 

I know first hand of a 1932 Ford factory replacement frame that doesn't have any ID numbers stamped. It's owned by a guy that has a collection of 1932 Ford stuff.
It may have been an accident repair part, or possibly one of the pieces Ford used to display its new design of car chassis. I was told for repair.