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Ford F1 chopped cab info, style

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Workdragon, Sep 17, 2012.

  1. Workdragon
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 87

    Workdragon
    Member

    Some months back I bought a chopped cab for my ford f1 project truck. The cab had some rust seeping through, so I elected to strip the cab down and after layers and layers of plastic filler I found a square shape cut of the center of the cab and a divider in the center. I have a ton of questions regarding this chop. First is there a style name for it? Second, what year or period is this from? Third, Can I just take a 18 gauge piece of metal and fill in the gap? Fourth does anyone have a plan or can offer suggestions on the repair method that should be used?[​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2012
  2. BIGB0SS E.D.D.
    Joined: Jun 12, 2011
    Posts: 44

    BIGB0SS E.D.D.
    Member
    from Oklahoma

    The first thing I have to say about this chop was it was a very poorly done chop, and it might just be easier to use another cab and try to do it yourself.
    By just looking at this cab it looks like you will put more time in it fixing it than just starting on a new cab.

    As for the chop it looks like it was done similar to the one in the Weesner inspired Lit Up http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=549162 But just poorly done.
     
  3. Workdragon
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 87

    Workdragon
    Member

    Thanks for some answers I simply can't understand the method used here. I have looked at countless chops and have seen maybe one around this style. I think I can clean up the lines and smooth out some of the problems with what appears to be a lack of proper bracing or something during the chop...
     
  4. Method? Some guy chopped his F1. Now you have it.
    Enjoy.
     

  5. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,440

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Post some more pics from other angles if you can.

    To me it looks like the top was quartered (or at least "halved") but the filer pieces look like they are lap welded from underneath. That could be a mess.

    Looks like a really hard chop too. That could be good or bad depending on how they handled the A pillars and doors.
     
  6. There's no style or time period. Probably not too old. Looks like shitty MIG welding. It's simply a hack job. With the crappy welding I'd want to take a good look at the pillars, before deciding to fix it or start with a fresh cab, or at least a new roof. More pictures would help, but it looks pretty amateur. I hope you didn't give much for it. And NO you don't want to use 16 ga to fill any of it.
     
  7. Workdragon
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 87

    Workdragon
    Member

    Here some more pictures:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  8. Workdragon
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 87

    Workdragon
    Member

    You really think it was done with a mig? It looked to me like it was brazed in. Oh and sorry about the picture size..guys
     
  9. Mine is wacked more than that. I never widened it.
     
  10. Yeah I see the brass in these pictures. Still no way to tell when. Doesn't matter much any way. The work done was wasted effort. What's your skill level, and what do you have to work with as far as tools? This will not be an easy fix. If I was to fix it, Id find another roof. Cut off that one, SQUARE & FIT the cab and doors, brace it well, and use your old roof for filler pieces.
     
  11. Workdragon
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 87

    Workdragon
    Member

    I have welded in some patches, I can make decent straight welds on thin metal, but that is about it.
    I am light on fabrication tools, but this is what i have:
    220 hobart 187 welder with gas
    copper plates
    body tools and some common dollys
    I do not have a english wheel, brake, strinker strecher or a band saw
    bags and rubber mallets
     
  12. I'm not a fan of MIG on sheet metal, but it's doable. Great way to learn. When your done with this one you'll either be ready for the next one or you'll NEVER chop another car!:D
     
  13. Workdragon
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 87

    Workdragon
    Member

    I guess I have a lot of research to do. If the top of this cab is screwed then why not gain some experience by chopping another inch or so. If I screw it up then I am not out anything. I guess the top didn't concern me so much before because I have seen some truly bad chop jobs. Good thing is that a F-1 cab and doors isn't that expensive
     
  14. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,440

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Interesting. I'm planning to chop mine and I would like to see pics of yours. Is it finished? Has glass? Vent windows?

    Workdragon – The work may not be the best on that cab but I personally think it has good proportions and looks totally savable. And I think you have the tools to do it.

    In fact, looking at it again I would stop well short of calling it a hack job. It just looks like it needs attention in some places.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2012
  15. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,655

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I think the shape looks good, (semi-side view) the door tops flow nicely, with good fit up top. Also, it seems to have been thought out, as it's chopped more in the back.

    I'd fix it... Oh, that 'style', or 'sectioning in' for the error of width when dropped down: That was popular around the San Jose area from very late '50s into the '60s.
    If not carefully planned, the top ends up looking 'squashed'...(flat on top)
    But many were done that way back then.
     
  16. 49ratfink
    Joined: Feb 8, 2004
    Posts: 18,084

    49ratfink
    Member
    from California

    your poor photos don't show enough. looks like a hack job from someone who thinks this is how it is done then you "fix it" with bondo. looks to be just tacked and overlapped. if there was any brazing involved then it is even worse.

    show some shots from the inside looking up.
     
  17. Workdragon
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 87

    Workdragon
    Member

    Ask and you shall recieve
    [​IMG]
     
  18. The roof was quartered, and for unknown reason they put a large rectangular filler in the roof. Welds are lap welds and not butt welds. The roof could be done with longer strips and not need the panel. Maybe the panel is slightly flatter than the stock roof and that could be why it was used?
     
  19.  
  20. Workdragon
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 87

    Workdragon
    Member

    Yea, I have no idea either but not being a master fabricator or someone who has experience chopping. I do know that I have seen it done in this fashion before. Most likely I am going to measure three or four times then tape off the cab. Going to use a paint stick as a guide, cut another one down as a curve indicator. Get some 16 gauge and fix all the cut lines. The roof...I have no idea but it sounds like I am going to just have to find a donor roof...
     
  21. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,906

    need louvers ?
    Member

    Please don't use 16 ga. in a body application! Body steel is technically 19 ga, go with 18 or maybe 20.
     
  22. Workdragon
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 87

    Workdragon
    Member

    Oh, sorry you are right, I used my gauge and sure enough 18. :eek: I am never afraid to admit my mistakes.
     
  23. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,440

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    If it were mine, I would start by measuring everything and making sure it is square to the world. If you are good there then focus attention on fixing the bits across the back of the cab and doors, A pillars, etc. if needed.

    As far as that center filler panel goes I think you are in pretty good shape. Why do you think you need a donor?

    What about marking your cut lines just inside of the roof filler, (centered and symmetrical) cutting through both panels let's say, a foot or so at a time. Peeling back the inside overhang, and the bit that is still tacked to the outside, then line up the panels with a thin screwdriver or putty knife, and tack with the MIG every four inches or so.

    Then you can go back with a torch and gas weld the seam around the outside so you can hammer out any problem areas. Carefully dress down the old tacks with a flap wheel and call it good.

    FWIW I have chased oil canning across a roof by trying to stretch a few gnarly MIG welds and while I did succeed... it was not fun. I would avoid the adding strips approach at all costs.

    Again, the proportions of that thing are pretty damn good. I think the chop was planned right, just lacking on the execution. If you use a donor for anything it should be refilling those chunks in the back so you can match the reveal around the window, etc. (don't try to fill it with 16ga)
     
  24. I must be seeing something some of you guys don't. To me that's a horrible hack job. I'd be very concerned about the pillars. Who ever did this was clueless. I'd say a least 75% of the chops I see, the A pillars were cut and joined incorrectly. I'd be shocked if these were anywhere close to acceptable. Nothing wrong with using this top for welding practice, and a learning experience, but I would absolutely cut that abortion off BELOW the original cuts, and start fresh with another top.

    How's the rest of the cab ? If your floor and cab corners are good then it's more worthwhile to save it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2012
  25. Workdragon
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 87

    Workdragon
    Member

     
  26. Workdragon
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 87

    Workdragon
    Member

    The rest of the cab is OK, seems straight with a few minor pin holes. No major rust. The bottom of the cab has some surface rust but nothing a god media blasting wouldn't take care of. I was wondering if you could tell me or provide a link on the correct method for the A pillars? what are your thoughts on tacking with a MIG (which I have now) and having a credible welder provide the solid welds with a TIG?
     
  27. This is called a sleeve. In this case its being used in a door window frame. You use a piece of the part removed, split and welded back together. This telescopes into both sides of the part. This provides a backer. Make sure you get full penetration into the backer. Now when you grind off your weld you still have a strong joint. As strong or stronger than the surrounding area. Also makes alignment much easier( in the last picture the door frame is just slipped together without clamps). Another way is to separate the outer and inner pillar and cut them at different places. (stagger cut)I use one or the other or a combination of both depending on the design of the part your sectioning.
    Most people simply butt everything together, then grind it down. Unless you do your welding and grinding perfectly, it can severely weaken the pillar. No matter what kind of car, the pillars are critical should the car ever get wrecked. Not to mention metal fatigue over time.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 20, 2012
  28. On this Stude, you can see where I took off the outer A pillar skin. Over the winter, in storage rust formed on the weld line, making it easy to see where it was cut. The skin was removed, the pillar cut and lapped, and in this case reinforced with 3/4" square tube. The pillar was so weak originally it was scary! Then the skin was cut down and welded back in.
     

    Attached Files:

  29. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,440

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Wow. I really didn't think it looked that bad from the pics you posted.
     
  30. Workdragon
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 87

    Workdragon
    Member

    Yea, I don't it is that bad either but it certainly does need some improvement. I think they used excess
     

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