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Projects Ford F1 Brake to Model A Drop Axle ???

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Nos1partstore, Feb 6, 2019.

  1. Nos1partstore
    Joined: Jun 20, 2012
    Posts: 181

    Nos1partstore
    Member

    Hey guys, sorry if this is a stupid question, but i have a model A 28-34 drop axle from speedway motors....i am wondering if my spindles from my 1948 ford f1 pickup drop axle will bolt right on?

    Sent from my SM-G950U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  2. Phil P
    Joined: Jan 1, 2018
    Posts: 125

    Phil P
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    179342E1-2CAB-4E90-AC49-69A0872FC449.jpeg I’m in the mock up stage right now but with the stock model a axle. It looks pretty promising with just a bend of the drag link arm it should be bolt on. Phil
     
  3. 1946caddy
    Joined: Dec 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,264

    1946caddy
    Member
    from washington

    Yes. :)

    Axle won't fit your 48 f1.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
  4. Inked Monkey
    Joined: Apr 19, 2011
    Posts: 1,419

    Inked Monkey
    Member

    I used f1 spindles and brakes on my stock A front axle. Used the f1 kingpins. As for your drop axle, I don't know
     
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  5. 1946caddy
    Joined: Dec 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,264

    1946caddy
    Member
    from washington

    To clarify. 1948 Ford pu spindles and brakes will fit on a Model A axle.
    You can not use your Model A dropped axle in your 1948 ford pu without major modification.
     
  6. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 1,377

    deathrowdave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NKy

    I’m not sure but I seam to remember my buddy used F1 spindles after cutting off steering Arms . I can’t remember
     
  7. Nos1partstore,

    We need more information. What vehicle are you working on? Do you have a Model A, 32, 33, or 34 and you are trying to use your dropped axle with the F1 brakes or are you trying to use the dropped axle on your F1?

    Charlie Stephens
     
  8. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 7,571

    manyolcars

    The word you want is 'dropped'. It's a dropped axle.
     
  9. Chappy444
    Joined: Jan 27, 2012
    Posts: 673

    Chappy444
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. Maryland HAMBers

  10. Chapppy,

    I noticed you are looking for '32 Ford 18 inch wire wheels. Will any of the '28 to '35 wire wheels fit on the '51 f1 drums?

    Charlie Stephens
     
  11. Chappy444
    Joined: Jan 27, 2012
    Posts: 673

    Chappy444
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. Maryland HAMBers

    It is my understanding that the answer is yes, with a caveat. The bolt patter is 5 on 5 1/2. But the older wheels dont sit flat at the mating surface of the drum so a "spacer" is require to be installed on the back of the wheel to prevent warping the rim when you tighten it down. Now, I have seen people on here swear that they have run these wheels for years with out this modification... here is a link to the vern tardel version of the spacer. Click the view instructions button under the description for some good pictures.
    There are other makers and a couple of different solutions to this problem.
    If you search HAMB for "wire wheel spacer" you will probably get more info than you want....lol
    Chappy
    https://www.verntardel.com/products/wire-wheel-spacers
     
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  12. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 13,388

    alchemy
    Member

    I haven't actually put early Ford wires on F-1 brakes, but I've looked at a lot of those parts laying on the ground. The wire wheels require more offset of the brake drum than an F-1 has. I don't think you can get the wheel close enough to the drum without a way thicker spacer than that Tardel part. The spacers like that Tardel part are for use of early wires on a 40-48 drum. They already have the offset built in, and only need that little spacer to replace the missing nubs inboard of the studs that the pre-35 drums had originally.
     
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  13. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 3,225

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    I think this is what @alchemy is talking about:
    40 vs F1 drums.jpg
    You probably need spacers like these from Speedway
    [​IMG]
    Which are going to push the wheel out and add positive scrub radius.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
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  14. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 13,388

    alchemy
    Member

  15. Nos1partstore
    Joined: Jun 20, 2012
    Posts: 181

    Nos1partstore
    Member

    I am getting an unpinched 32 frame bobbed for model a. Using a 31 coupe body, using a 1928-1934 dropped acke from speedway. I have a 1948 ford f1 front axle laying around with complete brakes set up. Wondering if the f1 brakes/spindles will fit on my speedway drop axle

    Sent from my SM-G950U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  16. Don't plan on running the '28-'35 wire wheels or Kelseys.

    Charlie Stephens
     
  17. Nos1partstore
    Joined: Jun 20, 2012
    Posts: 181

    Nos1partstore
    Member

    Ok, maybe just some steel wheels then

    Sent from my SM-G950U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  18. chopnchaneled
    Joined: Oct 21, 2004
    Posts: 1,257

    chopnchaneled
    Member
    from Buford Ga.

    Dumb Question Time,,,, Will the 48-52 F1 drum work on the rear using 40 hubs ?
     
  19. 1946caddy
    Joined: Dec 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,264

    1946caddy
    Member
    from washington

    How would you attach a 40 hub to the rear end?
     
  20. 1946caddy
    Joined: Dec 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,264

    1946caddy
    Member
    from washington

    It didn't come up but if you use the 46-48 passenger car spindles and brake drums, you can run the Ford wire wheels without the spacers or small ring if you get the correct brake drum. They make two different ones.
     
  21. What is the correct brake drum? I thought they only made two basic styles. One with the hub mounted inside of the drum (prewar) and one with the hub mounted outside of the drum (post war). Both of these require the adapter.

    Charlie Stephens

    IMG_0582.jpeg

    IMG_0584.jpeg
     
  22. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 13,388

    alchemy
    Member

    Not true. Any early Ford wire wheel used on any Ford drum built after 1935 will require a support ring or spacer ring thing. It will replace the nubs which were cast into the early hubs, but are not in any hubs after 1935.

    Yes there were two different style hubs like Charlie shows above. The inside hub is commonly known as a 1940 hub (prewar), and the outside hub is commonly known as a 1948 hub (postwar). But neither of them have any support inboard of the studs where the wire wheel needs it.

    One other issue with mounting early wire wheels on a later (postwar) hub/drum: the balancing weights. Notice Charlie's pic just barely shows the balancing weight on the drum at about the 10:30 position? That will need to be removed. It will not let the outer lip of the wire wheel hub sit all the way down. A big no-no to your balance. I used a grinder/cut-off wheel to remove the last ones I did. I never noticed any unbalance issues after I did it either.
     
  23. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 24,417

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    These guys get out in left field real quick especially with their obsession with wire wheels on early Fords. I didn't see where you even mentioned wire wheels and might guess that the F-1 wheels are out in the back shed looking for a new home to boot.
    I'm in the same boat as you except I have the 40 style round back spindles and F-1 brakes including backing plates and drums. I finally decided to just run steel wheels and be done with it as that is as much of a hot rod look as wires.
     
  24. 1946caddy
    Joined: Dec 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,264

    1946caddy
    Member
    from washington

    I guess this guy doesn't know what he's talking about then.
    http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/V8brakedrums.htm
     
  25. I brought up the subject of wire wheels on the F1 drums because Chappy in Post #9 said "The donor car for my 30 build was a 51 f1.he was using F1 brakes" and at the bottom of his post he said "Looking for a set of 32 Ford 18" Wire Wheels". Of course I don't know if he plans to use the wire wheels on the F1 drums when he finds them but I thought it would be better to be safe.

    Nos1partstore didn't say what wheels he was planning but but I wanted to make sure that he knew using the F1 brakes would be a problem if he wanted to run wire wheels.

    Charlie Stephens
     
  26. Vince Falter definitely knows what he is talking about. His site is an excellent source of information. I do however think he made an error in the part you are reading. Everyone is entitled to an occasional mistake. The only people that don't make mistakes are the ones that don't do anything. Vince has put a very large amount of work into his site and I sincerely appreciate what he has done.

    Charlie Stephens
     
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  27. 1946caddy
    Joined: Dec 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,264

    1946caddy
    Member
    from washington

    Are you saying that his solution will not work?
     
  28. Yes, that is what I am saying. The adapter to account for the fact that the wire wheels need to be supported at two different levels is still needed.

    After reading the site you referenced I understand what you mean about two different styles of 1946-48 drums. I had assumed you were including the prewar drums to get to two. That is definitely something I had never noticed before, but you still need the adapter.

    Charlie Stephens
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
    alchemy likes this.
  29. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 13,388

    alchemy
    Member

    To add even more clutter to a thread about F-1 brakes, yes the Fordgarage site is wrong if you think it means a guy doesn't need to support the wire wheel inboard of the studs. I think that site is meaning the wire wheel will sit down over the surface and the outer edge of the wheel center will clear the drum on some, but not other 48 drums. I've never found a 48 drum that wouldn't clear, but there might be some out there. But I can guarantee there were no hubs or drums made for 40-48 Fords with the proper support for an old Ford wire wheel. Period.
     
  30. Chappy444
    Joined: Jan 27, 2012
    Posts: 673

    Chappy444
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. Maryland HAMBers

    Not to muddy the waters any more than they already are but...
    Can you put 40-48 drums on 51 f1 backing plates and shoes?
    or
    can you put 40-48 backing plates, brakes and drums on 51 f1 axles?
    Chappy
     

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