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ford 400m engine

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by ems customer service, Aug 2, 2010.

  1. ems customer service
    Joined: Nov 15, 2006
    Posts: 2,580

    ems customer service
    Member

    bought a older ford this week for a driver, its to new for the hamb,it has a 400m cu/in engine i never paid much attention to this engine and never considered it for a hot rod.

    with A 2bbl carb this baby hauls lots of torque. pulls like a rocket between 50 to 80mph, then kind goes flat at high rpm. and with a bolt pattern for a c6 trans this motor is now gonna be on my list . i like 390 big blocks but they are getting hard to get.

    just fyi
     
  2. gwarren007
    Joined: Apr 3, 2010
    Posts: 381

    gwarren007
    Member

    There is a list of the overlooked motors floating around :)

    Really can't go wrong with the 348-402 ci motors.
     
  3. greensheads
    Joined: Sep 21, 2005
    Posts: 87

    greensheads
    Member

    For a budget 400 this is the place to go:
    http://www.tmeyerinc.com/

    The only thing the 400 has been lacking over the years is piston options(stock compression is like 7.5 to 8:1. Not anymore. he sells Kb pistons that are like 260$ and raise the compression to 9.5 to 1.
    Add a 4bbl and Edelbrock intake/ mild cam, and you get 400hp and 400lbs ft of torque.
     

  4. Commish
    Joined: Jan 9, 2010
    Posts: 379

    Commish
    Member
    from NW Ok

    Stu, if it is your opinion that Ford did not make a 400M, then you need to do a little research. If I misunderstood and you have actually seen his engine and it is a 351M then forget what I said.
     
  5. Swifster
    Joined: Dec 16, 2006
    Posts: 1,456

    Swifster
    Member

    Some call it a 400 and others a 400M. Same engine. The 351M is part of the same engine family. When you make three 351 engines from different engine families, the letters go with them.

    All three engines belong to different engine families and almost nothing interchanges. The 351M & 400M belong in one family. The 351C is all by it's self and the 351W is with the 289/302 engines. The letters are based off of the casting plants where the cranks were made...

    C = Cleveland
    M = Flat Rock, Michigan
    W = Windsor

    The M series was based off off the 351C, but it's a tall deck block similar to GM having tall deck 427's for big trucks. In fact, the 'M' series engines were used to motivate large cars and full-size trucks. It's a torquey smog motor. I had one in a '78 Country Squire and I just remember a lot of spark knock and the car being slow (4500lbs).
     
  6. INJUNTOM
    Joined: Jun 11, 2006
    Posts: 548

    INJUNTOM
    Member

    I always thought the M was for Midland. Maybe I've been wrong all these years. Most people want to call them M for modified or even Magnum as some knitwit I used to work with called them.
     
  7. Swifster
    Joined: Dec 16, 2006
    Posts: 1,456

    Swifster
    Member

    Ford didn't have a plant in Midland.
     
  8. 64Cyclone
    Joined: Aug 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,496

    64Cyclone
    Member

    I thought M stood for "more gas". Everyone I've ever had got horrible gas mileage and seemed weaker than a 250 6 cylinder.
     
  9. One of the most overlooked engines ever. There's tons of potential especially in the heads. It's Achilles heel was the valve and ignition timing due to it coming of age in the "smog “era. Even without a bump in compression, a cam change and a "straight up" timing gear set REALLY wakes those sleepers up. Back when those were common in Ford trucks we stuck a nice Comp Cams replacement in them, (whenever we could) sometimes with other bolt-ons and it would totally change the engines personality. They dress out real nice too; 351c valve covers fit. Good luck!
     
  10. pauls fords
    Joined: Jul 7, 2009
    Posts: 183

    pauls fords
    Member

    Drag race these engines and used stock bore 390 pistons in them after boring .050 over, same wrist pin and have to cut about a .100 or so off the tops, really boost the compression and with a Isky 7000 RPM cam from a cleveland , WOW, also used closed chamber 351 4V cleveland heads, the stock 2V heads are open chamber and would reduce the compression for street use, put a smaller cam in it also, the stock rods dont like 7000. 6000 cam and shift at 5500 and hang on!!!!!!!!
     
  11. FrozenMerc
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 2,740

    FrozenMerc
    Member

    The potential is huge. Jon Kaase won the Engine Master's Challenge 2 years in a row with a 400M, beat the pants off of Hemi's, BBC's, among others.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2010
  12. Kenneth S
    Joined: Dec 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,527

    Kenneth S
    Member

    The 400 is a Cleveland, the 351M was a 400 block with a 351W crankshaft, Ford used the 351W crankshaft in the 400 block because they had a shortage of 400 cranks. There were a few rare 1st year 400C blocks with the SBF Windsor bell housing bolt pattern.
    Contrary to what the chevy guy's want to believe, the 351-400 Cleveland's are small blocks.
     
  13. Seems I vaguely remember an old Jack Roush quote of something like, "that engine has more untapped potential than any other current V8". Somthin like that anyway.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2010
  14. <TABLE width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>History of the Ford 351M/400
    By Paul (Revised 11/04/00)
    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    <CENTER><TABLE width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width="50%">The Ford 351M and 400 cubic inch V8 engines are members of the Cleveland, or 335 series family of Ford engines. The 400M was first introduced in the 1971 Full-size model cars and station wagons. It was developed as an economical, reduced emissions replacement for the larger, gas-guzzling 429/460 and the ageing 360/390/428 V8 engines. The 351M was developed in 1975 to replace the 351C for use in large passenger cars. The 351M/400 engines were used in light-duty trucks starting in the 1977 model year.
    <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:p> </O:p>
    Ford Engineers developed the 400 engine in response to the new Government pollutions requirements that were to start in the 1971 model year. Ford needed a tough, &#8220;workhorse&#8221; that was small enough to meet the new Government regulations and yet rugged enough to push around a 5,000 Lb Country Squire station wagon loaded down with another 1,000 pounds of passengers and luggage for 100,000 or more miles! The FE series (360/390/428) engines were terribly outdated (13 years old by 1971), and would have never been able to meet the new pollution and gas mileage restrictions required for the 1971 automobiles. The smaller 302 and 351 Windsor engines could have done the job, however, these engines were designed for higher RPM duty in small to mid-size passenger cars. Ford needed a whole new engine to do the job.<O:p> </O:p>
    <O:p> </O:p>
    So, Ford chose to develop a new engine based on the new, super powerhouse 351 Cleveland. Just barely a little over a year old in 1971, the 351C had already gained the reputation as one of the best Ford engines ever built. The 351C was able to produce very good low-end torque and yet it could pump out earth shattering horsepower all the way to 6,500 RPM. The 351C was light, powerful, extremely rugged, and got better gas mileage than most other engines 2/3 it&#8217;s size. This was just what the doctor ordered!<O:p> </O:p>
    <O:p> </O:p>
    The engineers at Ford took the basic 351C block and modified it to power a whole new generation of environmentally-friendly cars and trucks. To start, Ford changed the transmission bell-housing pattern to match that of the larger 429/460 engines. This would allow Ford to continue putting the larger, heavy-duty 460 C6 transmissions with the new 400 engines. Ford also enlarged the main journal diameter from 2.75 inches to 3.0 inches allowing for a greater bearing wear area. The crankshaft stroke was also increased from 3.5 inches to 4.0 inches for a 50 cubic inch increase in engine displacement and greater low-end torque. Finally, the deck height was increased 1.09 inches in order to accommodate the 400s larger stroke. Consequently, the intake manifold had to be widened approximately one inch to accommodate the new deck height. The rest of the engine remained virtually the same. In fact all of the 351C valve train components (except for the pushrods) interchange with 351M/ 400 engines. The 351M/400 cylinder heads will also interchange with the 351C 2brl heads, although the 351M/400 heads have 78.4cc combustions chamber where as the 351C 2V heads had a 76.2cc combustions chamber.
    The &#8220;M&#8221;, by the way, does not stand for anything. Ford only used the &#8220;M&#8221; designation to distinguish it from the 351 W (Windsor) and the now discontinued 351C (Cleveland). The &#8220;M&#8221; designation has now become know to mean &#8220;modified&#8221; or &#8220;Michigan&#8221;, even though the 351M was produced at both the Cleveland foundry and Michigan casting center.

    To develop the 351M, Ford simply shortened the &#8220;throw&#8221; of the 400&#8217;s crankshaft to the original 3.5 inches used in the 351C. The larger 3.0 inch journal diameter of the 400 was retained in the 351M. To accommodate the shorter stroke, the compression height of the 400&#8217;s pistons had to be enlarged to raise the compression ratio up to 8.0:1. So, other than the crankshaft and pistons, the 351M is exactly the same as the 400. Even the connecting rods interchange.

    <O:p>


    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER>​
    </O:p>

    ==================================================================

    The 351M had it's own crank (different snout than 351W) No crank shortage. That's an old wivestale, kinda like the "Midland" thing. Pat Ganahl's book put legs under that 351w crank story, but it's wrong.

    ===================================================================
    Crankshafts
    Many people would like to know of an easy way to tell the difference between a 351M and a 400. Since the crankshaft is the main component that determines whether the engine is a 351M or a 400, the only reliable way to identify an M-block engine as either a 351M or a 400 is to verify the crankshaft casting ID code. This requires, at a minimum, removing the oil pan to view the crankshaft where the casting ID code appears.

    Here&#8217;s why you can&#8217;t distinguish a 351M from a 400 by inserting a rod through a spark plug hole to measure the stroke.


    Ford used the same components (engine blocks, cylinder heads, manifolds, etc.) to make both 351M and 400 engines. Therefore, you cannot rely on the casting ID codes or part numbers of any external component to distinguish a 351M from a 400.

    Any 400 manufactured in any year can be rebuilt as a 351M by simply substituting the 351M crankshaft and pistons for the 400 parts.

    Engine ID tags and calibration stickers are easily swapped from one engine to another, and even if they are not swapped, there is no way to tell whether an engine was rebuilt with 351M components without looking at the crankshaft.

    The following table lists M-block crankshaft part numbers and casting ID codes.

    Model Year
    Part Number
    Casting ID
    Notes

    1971
    D1AE-6303-A
    5M
    Original 400 crankshaft.

    1972-1973
    D2AE-6303-A
    5MA
    5MAB
    400 crankshaft, car only.

    1974-1977
    D4AE-6303-B
    5MA
    5MAB
    400 crankshaft, car only.

    1975-1976
    D5AE-6303-A
    1K
    Original 351M crankshaft.

    1977-1982
    D7AE-6303-A
    1KA
    All '77-up 351M car and truck.

    1977-1982
    D7TE-6303-A
    5MA
    5MAB
    All '78-up 400 car and '77-up 400 truck.


    M-block crankshaft casting ID codes are located on either the first counterweight (opposite the first throw at the front of the engine), or on the side of the first throw. Casting ID codes are recessed into the unfinished (raw cast) surface. Sometimes the characters are faint, so you may have to thoroughly clean the area with a solvent to find the ID code.

    All 351M and 400 crankshafts are interchangeable, as long as you use the corresponding pistons. You can use any 351M or 400 crankshaft in any M-block engine block. Main bearings are different for '77-up truck blocks (D7TE) and '78-up car blocks (D8AE).

    from- http://web.archive.org/web/20071216153439/http://home.earthlink.net/~bubbaf250/parts/parts01.html
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2010
  15. Retro Jim
    Joined: May 27, 2007
    Posts: 3,859

    Retro Jim
    Member

    I worked for Ford when they cam out and had many other the blocks that cracked in the valley and the anti freeze would leak in . There was a recall on them and I had to rebuild them with new blocks . Made very good money off them too .
    They were dogs to say the least but did a good job for the family cruiser . You could hop them up if you knew what to do . Wasn't hard and knew many guys that drag raced them too . The 351m/400 ( modified) was basically just a de tuned 351 for the emissions laws in 1973 . Just change the piston , cam and timing chain and you had a very good strong running engine . It was a short lived engine to replace the big blocks .

    Retro Jim
     
  16. Ford made a 400 and called it a.... 400. Not opinion but fact. It was a high decked Cleveland similar in concept to the what the 351W is to the 302. I owned a 1976 Merc with a 400. I did not have the 351M or a 400M

    The M has merely been tacked on over the years, it is just symantics really albeit incorrect. After 74 Ford did not produce the lower decked 351 Cleveland and thus destroked the 400 to 351 and called it 351M to differentiate it from the Cleveland. The 400 was still a 400 so no need to call it an M as it had not changed. The valve covers did have 351M/400 on the stickers with the tune up specs on them.

    Regardless of name they were dogs in the mid '70's but like any big cube motor can be made to run. They just didn't have a lot of speed parts back in the day ( really none)

    Not trying to start a pissing match just stating the facts.

    Note lack of M after 400 on the pic.

    The block cracking stated by Retro Jim was a known issue but it was particular to a certain foundry in Michigan whose name escapes me at the moment.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 3, 2010
  17. synchro7
    Joined: Jul 17, 2006
    Posts: 341

    synchro7
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Put one of these in my 56 T-Bird. 71 engine, punched .030, earson cam and kit, performer intake, 715 CFM holley from a 390 GT, homemade headers, balanced, I port matched the intake, and did some porting work on the heads. IT BREAKS THINGS, 9" rearends, toploader4-speeds, drive shafts, and U-joints. But, it's a hell of a lot of FUN.
     
    Greaser Bob and volvobrynk like this.
  18. hotrodstude
    Joined: Jul 30, 2010
    Posts: 70

    hotrodstude
    Member

    the 400,what ever you guy's want to call it,was a smog engine and had the cam retarted as much as 16 degrees,the 460 was in the same boat.retarted cams are good for hi-speed running (nascar,bonnileville.etc.) advancing the cam boost low end power.you can make any engine run better than stock.
     
  19. Commish
    Joined: Jan 9, 2010
    Posts: 379

    Commish
    Member
    from NW Ok

    Thanks for the info Stu, I see they have actually been referred to as both over the yrs., even though being basically the same engine.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2010
  20. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,447

    George
    Member

    And there already threads here on how to build em, try search.
     
  21. brad chevy
    Joined: Nov 22, 2009
    Posts: 2,627

    brad chevy
    Member

    Had a 71 Ford pickup with the 400 in it,pulled a 4-horse trailer with it no problem with power and on interstate guys with the newer shit couldn"t keep up,as far as the comment about the power of a six cylinder,that just lame as hell,that Tenn. moonshine has fried your brain.
     
  22. Same old arguments...over and over...

    The 400 335 Series was released in 1971 to replace the 390 FE in passenger car service. With the previous release of the 351C in 1970, FORD had two different block heights in the engine series, hence two different engines.

    The 351C was discontinued in the 1974 model year it's having been used as both a passenger car and performance engine.

    FORD simply took the 400 block, destroked it and made an engine that was available for replacement for the 351C 2V in passenger car service and the 360 FE in light truck service. The FE 390 was subsequently discontinued from service in the light truck lineup. FORD now had two engine sizes available for service using one block instead of two ($$$).

    The proper nomenclature is 351M/400. MODIFIED is the general description used by FORD to differentiate the new engine from the previous 351C and the 351W.

    This gave FORD a small displacement engine series (302-351W), a mid-size engine series (351M-400) and a large size engine series (429-460) to cover all possible needs.

    Unfortunately, the release of the 400 came during government crackdown on performance and emissions. It was overloaded with quickly designed mechanical emission systems that severely reduced power.

    FACTOID-

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</w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-unhide:no; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; font-size:10.0pt; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt;} @page WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]--> [FONT=&quot]The 400 FMX block is a special version of the standard Ford 400 block. What makes it different is that most 400&#8217;s have the standard Ford big block (370/429/460) bell housing bolt pattern and a unique motor mount pattern. However, in 1973 only, Ford produced a special version of the 400 with a small block bell housing bolt pattern and dual motor mounts.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]<o></o>[/FONT]
     
  23. Retro Jim
    Joined: May 27, 2007
    Posts: 3,859

    Retro Jim
    Member


    George , I have run across forums that are just for that engine . I was doing a Goggle search and a 351m/400 forum was thrown into the mix somehow . I think it was because I was doing a 351w or 351c search one day . Like other stated the biggest problem was the stupid smog problems that Ford did to the engine . It was really not a bad engine if you changed the cam and mostly the timing chain . It was just like the 460's , if you changed the timing chain you had a much quicker engine . It all had to do with the timing .
    They really aren't that hard to get running good . Edelbrock did make a good 4 bbl intake for it . Change the timing chain and swap out the cam and you will have a much better engine .

    Retro Jim
     
  24. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,447

    George
    Member

    Just saying that there is @ least one lenthy thread on the 400 posted on this Forum already. Considering the limited interest in them....
     
  25. Chrispy137
    Joined: Dec 6, 2012
    Posts: 7

    Chrispy137
    Member

    I'm building a 400 and need to know if i really need a cam valley pan? I've tried looking around but I can't find a solid answer
     
  26. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,447

    George
    Member

    My opinion is...if Ford could have saved a number of $ on every 351C/M/400 sold by not using it they would have! Wouldn't be nessesary on an "air-Gap" intake.
     
  27. 58custom
    Joined: Jan 1, 2009
    Posts: 398

    58custom
    Member

    I have used Edelbrock intakes on Clevelands without a pan and had no problems with oil on the exhaust crossover on the bottom of the intake.
     
  28. TigerII
    Joined: Nov 12, 2007
    Posts: 23

    TigerII
    Member

    Sorry ass engine. One of Fords mistakes in my view. Hard to start, hard to stop(have to shut off in gear and crank steering wheel at same time to prevent Dieseling). It also runs hot -don't even think about using the air on a hot day. Rebuilt with more compression, balance, Isky cam, 600 Holley, bumped timing, big exhaust etc. Ran much better with the same issues though.
    That being said it is durable as hell. I know this because I have tried to blow it up dozens of times. 190k on rebuild and it still won't give up. Its in my work truck and has never seen an easy day. When it does puke the old girl will get an injected 300 six.
     
  29. Kenneth S
    Joined: Dec 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,527

    Kenneth S
    Member


    I would use a valley pan, FelPro part number MS96020
     

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