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""Fools rush in to the"" Aprill 2013 Banger Meet

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Crazydaddyo, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. Alright banger brothers, need a little clarification...

    I'm working on a hopped-up A motor and have procured a Brierley cam (SU-1R). Mr. Brierley recommends 60# seat pressure for this cam, so I'll need to add spacers to get there. Problem I'm running into is that I'm seeing different #'s for installed height on an A (some sources say 2.5" others 2.375"). I understand that the springs Mac's sells come in at 37# at 2.5" and 50# at 2.375, so I probably need to be in the ballpark of 2.25" for 60# with those springs. Can anyone provide the correct installed height so I can verify what thickness spacer I'll need?

    All help is appreciated!
     
  2. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,185

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    The last engine that I ran that had that cam in it, I was running stock A springs. The installed spring height was 2.375. I had quarter inch spacers under the spring.

    -
     
  3. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,185

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    This car.

    [​IMG]

    In this frame.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  4. Good stuff...did some more reading and figured out that the original valve guides have a .125" shoulder that gives an installed height of 2.375". Some of the modern guides lack the shoulder and yield an installed height of 2.5". I'm told there is a 1-pc guide out there for use with original style valves with the shoulder...anyone know if the shoulder on these 1-pc. guides (for original style valves) is 1/8"?
     
  5. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,185

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    If you use stock valves with the mushrom tip, you can't use 1 piece guides. There is no way to get them onto the valve.

    -
     
  6. You're absolutely right...there are 3 different types of guides out there; stock 2-pc for 'mushroom' valves, 1-piece with a shoulder and 1-pc with no shoulder, both for straight stemmed valves. I got confused reading about the 1-pc guides without a shoulder; they come in a kit from the suppliers and are referred to as "modern valves/guides".
     
  7. You might want to look into using a Capacitance Discharge (CD) box. It gives you a steady, hot spark all the way up to your highest RPM (which, I think is all or better than a mag.). Your distributor points or module then become merely triggers (then, mostly trouble free). Back in the day, the magnetos were used, mostly because batteries (the early ones) were heavy, leaky (there were no gel-cells or recombinant gas for flyers or racers) and unreliable. A magneto will rob power (unless you've got some to spare:confused:). MSD (Mallory) makes a variety of CD boxes. They'll really "Light up" the life of your Banger!
     
    Elcohaulic likes this.
  8. skryla
    Joined: Oct 22, 2012
    Posts: 120

    skryla
    Member
    from Brick, NJ

    I am using an MSD box in my 72 Olds 442 Convertible with great results. I was going for a "look" as well as functionality. So far the consensus is that it looks great, but not much in the results department.

     
  9. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    I run Petronix and a hot coil

    All looks stock
     
  10. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,185

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    I've been running an FSI / Pertronics unit with great results.

    I've also wanted to convert an old Wico mag by hiding a pertronics assembly with centrifugal advance in side.

    -
     
  11. I'm running a Scintilla Vertex mag, modified by Don Zigg magnetos in CA.

    But I'm running about 130hp out of my B block with Miller head and twin 81 strombergs.

    It only just fits under the hood with less than 1/4 " spare height wise


    Posted from the TJJ App for iPhone & iPad
     
  12. Looks very nice I like your header pipes! Nice breather tube too, LOL!
    Im building a 29 Roadster pick up looks similar to your 26/27. sure wish I had more time to work on mine its been 8 years now. Keep up the good work--Bill

     
  13. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,185

    Crazydaddyo
    Member


    Thanks Bill.

    .
     
  14. gemcityrenegade
    Joined: Jun 9, 2007
    Posts: 171

    gemcityrenegade
    Member

    Since this is "Fools rush in", this fool is going to ask the opinion of the banger meet guys.

    Here's my Roadster threads on HAMB and Fordbarn.
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=745032
    http://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102112
    http://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102231
    http://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102766

    I've been rebuilding this elame scored roadster to get it in driver condition.
    [​IMG]
    I've gone thought the fuel system, brakes and interior. Now it's time to get the oil leak fixed. The motor has about 50 thou end play. The drain tube isn't clogged so I'm thinking the end play is making it leak more oil than I'm comfortable with. I also have a timing jump issue which I think is caused by a wallered out Magneto drive rod. I got a gasket kit, oil pump drive gear 10 thou over and a bronze thrust seal that replaces the rear main AL insert. The rear main babbitt looks kinda beat. The rest of the mains and rods look okay.

    I've got a shit ton of jeeps, motorcycles and hot rod projects and this was supposed to be a running car that needed a little love. It's turning out to be more than that. I've have a grand to spend on it right now. I want to know the best way to get this thing on the road. What I would like to do is put this motor back in and hope for the best with the new thrust insert and Magneto drive rod. I'm going to plastigauge all the bearings and clean everything out real good. I'd like to get another motor to build while I have one that runs in the car. If I could drive it to the store or at least move the car around under it's own power I'd be happy.

    I found an old guy with piles of motors. He has one "B" motor he's calling it. I pulled the pan off and it has a counterweighted crank, "C" head with short 3 bolt W pump, and no numbers on the SN flat. I'm thinking this is a "C" "Diamond" motor b/c of the no numbers and the HD trucks he had around. I didn't know at the time to look for the diamond symbol. He's asking 600 bucks for it. It turns over really nice, comes complete with carb, gen starter and everything but a dist. I'm sure we could find a dist as he's got buildings full of A stuff.

    My question is should I take a chance on this "C/Diamond" motor for $600 and hope the block isn't cracked down the jugs. While I'd also be taking a chance on the oil leaking stock A motor putting it back in the car.

    Or do I take the 1000 bucks I have and build the A motor now knowing it will take all summer to get done due to funds. I don't want to do this as I have 10 other long term projects in the works.

    Or do I buy another A motor from the guy for $300 and put the left over 7 into the spare 300 dollar A motor.

    Or try and take a chance on getting a running engine local and building the motor I have now.

    I've got a grand and the end game is to have a hot banger with head and dual carbs. The motor I have now already has a mag, header and two 97's good to go. I'm salivating at that counterweighted "C/Diamond" motor with the counterweighted crank. If the block is rocked could I at least use the crank to build the A motor in the car? I don't want to make a move until I'm sure..

    What to do?
     
  15. Carter
    Joined: Mar 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,422

    Carter
    Member

    There are no factory numbers stamped on the pad on B engines. It was stamped on the clutch housing. The crank has larger mains than the A, so that's not a direct fit. That's a decent price for a complete counterbalanced B/C engine, at least around here, but it may not be your best option. I'd buy it, but I have little self control.


    If the B has the short pump, it may be a 33-4 engine. If it is, the timing cover won't work with the A front engine mount.

    Sent from my DROID device using the TJJ mobile app
     
  16. First, there's no such thing as a "C" motor in Ford nomenclature. The "C" casting mark on the head denotes a Model B (the B casting mark was used on Model A high compression "police" heads). In late 1932 (November), the Model B 4cylinder received a counter-weighted crank (this refinement led to the motor being labeled the "Model C" in some circles).

    Diamond blocks were cast in Model A and Model B varieties as service replacement blocks - more than likely beginning in/around 1935. Beyond the Diamond casting mark, I don't believe there's much difference between a Diamond B and a production line B block - other than the replacement "diamond" blocks were not typically stamped with a motor number at the factory.

    Sounds like you want to be able to enjoy the car right now and do a complete rebuild later...you could very well do that, but IMHO you're really just throwing money away for the instant gratification of being able to drive it 'now.'

    Regarding the B motor, know that there are only a few parts that will actually interchange (head, manifolds, timing cover) with your A motor without some machine work. If the motor ends up being junk, you've just paid $600 for a crank that won't work in the A block without being turned down to A journal size and a head that will bump your compression ratio by only 4/tenths. That same $600 would buy you a repop Winfield head and you'd still have $100 left over. (I actually got an original Winfield 6:1 head for right at $600).

    If the B motor works out and you go that way, you need to know what you're dealing with...if you use a B transmission, you'll need to figure out how you're going to deal with the wishbone (Model B transmission lacks the wishbone cup), rear motor mounts, and pedal assemblies. Someone used to make a 'kit' for this swap...not sure if it's still available.

    If you use the A transmission behind the B motor, you'll have to do a little mixing - A & B transmissions, flywheels, and flywheel housings are different.

    If it were me, I'd sell off some of the other 'long term projects' and concentrate on rebuilding every major component of the roadster. It'll be off the road for a while, but will be safer & miles more dependable in the long run.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2013
  17. gemcityrenegade
    Joined: Jun 9, 2007
    Posts: 171

    gemcityrenegade
    Member

    I plan on using a 39 trans and kit. My TR4 is getting bank rolled into the 1969 BBC 4speed Camaro and the two jeep YJ's into one are banking the next phase of my one ton TJ build. I do have an Yamaha SR500 I'm not totally in love with and also have a small cashe of Honda CB 350 360 projects I could also part with.

    For this week however I need to make a decision about how to spend this $1000, babbitting my A block and getting a good bottom end. Or buying the mystery Diamond block and planning for that build. I'd love to have the cool counterweight crank and pressurized oiling. Any tips on looking at the Diamond "B" motor. I already pulled the pan. I'm gonna check the thrust. Should I pull the head and run a razor blade between the valves to check for cracks? If it's a 35 or later is this still a problem like I'm hearing about the 32 blocks? How about the hardened seats and extra mean near the mains? Any way to tell about that?
     
  18. hey guy, Does anyone know how much I can safely mill off a stock head?

    I've got my head off, replacing the head gasket and think I found where it blew. Right by the head stud between the two back cylinders the head is worn where the head gasket seals the combustion chamber. the block looks and feels fine, but the head has enough wear there that I can catch my finger nail on it. It's also pretty wide. I'd like to have my stock head surfaced flat, but want to make sure that there is enough clearance to mill a fair bit off. I noticed the pistons are above the deck. So didn't want any problems, even though it looks like there is plenty of room.

    thanks.
     
  19. You really need to take it to the machine shop near you. They will tell you best the most that can be taken off if any at all. You can be told here how much can be safely taken off, but if it has already been re surfaced, we would not really know.


    Posted from the TJJ App for iPhone & iPad
     
  20. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,676

    97
    Member

    If your only concern with the existing motor is the thrust and the oil leak,
    spend $45 here and keep driving it .
    http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/1421

    What have you got to lose?

    Then go buy the "B/C or diamond" motor ( who cares about the semantics , we are hotrodders not Fordbarn restorers.)

    If the guy wants to sell it he should let you check it out or give your money back if it turns out to be buggered.
    imo The crank alone is probably worth having for that money.
     
  21. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,158

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    i have one of these . they are fairly rare ! (timing cover)
    [​IMG]

    i used hylomar on my drag bike & it worked very well . i did use the spray can tho ....
     
  22. WDO40
    Joined: Jul 22, 2007
    Posts: 166

    WDO40
    Member

    So what is the best oil to run in these motors H&H told me strait 50 then another shop told 5w30
     
  23. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,158

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    i use vr-1 valvoline racxing oil .. 20/50 . it has zzdp for flat tappet cams ...........
     
  24. Yes, but for instance if on a head that has never been cut you can take of say as much as 1/4 inch. then I would know there is plenty to work with.
     
  25. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,185

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    Got it running last night. It fired right up and after breaking in the cam, this is what it sounds like at idle:

     
  26. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    ALL RIGHT!

    What is your procedure for "breaking in the cam"?

    Besides cam/lifter lube at assembly--

    Herb
     
  27. Beastly! Sounds great. how much HP do you estimate?
     
  28. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,185

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    Lube the cam with Moly assembly grease, Lucas break in lube in the oil. Prime the oiling system. 1st start up run it @ 1800 - 2000 rpm for about 15 - 20 min.

    I'd say 90 - 100 hp


    .
     
  29. T__N__A
    Joined: May 31, 2006
    Posts: 336

    T__N__A
    Member

     
  30. Sweet, CDO! Gets my gears turning even more.....gotta get my Tudor running............
     

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