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Flywheel chewed

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by tfeverfred, Sep 8, 2013.

  1. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,793

    tfeverfred
    Member

    We're working on a 350 SBC and the flywheels chewed. The starter has 2 shims on the outboard side to pull it closer to the flywheel and has been working fine. Until now. It's hit this bad spot on the flywheel. We're going to replace the flywheel, but are concerned about the shims. Does look like the starter had too many or not enough?
     

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  2. Ole don
    Joined: Dec 16, 2005
    Posts: 2,915

    Ole don
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    Put on new flywheel. Mount starter. Pry starter gear into mesh with screw diver. Use a paper clip unbent as a gauge between the teeth. Adjust starter to mesh teeth with gauge inserted. Pop a beer.
     
  3. aaggie
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,531

    aaggie
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Most new starters come with adjustment instructions for shims. Basically you want to disconnect the battery cable and manually engage the Bendix with a pry bar. Check the tooth engagement with a wire guage and check that the Bendix stops before bottoming out against the flywheel. Shim to get the clearance required and it should be quiet and last a long time.
     
  4. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,112

    Ebbsspeed
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    Looks like the gears weren't meshing enough. Also, if you're planning on re-using the starter I'd at least put a new Bendix on it. If the flywheel is that bad, I imagine the starter bendix is not in perfect condition.
     

  5. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,793

    tfeverfred
    Member

    Surprisingly, the starter bendix is great. It's a hi-torque mini, don't know if that has anything to do with it, but it appears the flywheel was the weaker of the two. he says he did the paper clip trick when he put it in and I checked and it does look right, but it's kinda dark.
     
  6. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,948

    RichFox
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    I wish people would call those things "Flex Plates". I was all ready to say "Just get a new ring gear" But that would be on a flywheel. That heavy thing that tends to smooth out the firing pulses.
     
  7. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,793

    tfeverfred
    Member

    Well, it does flex a little, so they say. Okay, we added another shim to the outboard side. Now, the flex plate teeth are as far into the bendix as they'll go. I still can't check the distance at the flex plate, but it appears good. Can the teeth be TOO close? We moved the flex plate to the good teeth and it starts fine.

    He's going to run it like this to get home and replace the flex plate tomorrow.
     
  8. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,793

    tfeverfred
    Member

    After measuring the teeth on the bendix and the flex plate, it appears that when the teeth of the flex plate are into the bendix as far as it can, that there is a .035 gap. But, that's a best guess.
     
  9. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,237

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    I have had to file down the mounting pad on starters before to get a good fit I think that you can use a 1/8 inch rod or allen wrench to put in the bottom of the flex plate tooth and adjust the starter from there.
     
  10. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 27,341

    Mr48chev
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    Now how did I know that before I even opened the thread. The two seem to go hand in hand, "I've got flexplate or flywheel teeth problems" and in the next sentence "It's got a mini starter on it".. That's about 90% of the time so a guy might see some correlation there. Why the need for a mini starter in most cases except for the reason "that all the cool guys have them". No space to put a regular starter is the only viable reason I can come up with.
     
  11. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,793

    tfeverfred
    Member

    He has it for header clearance. I've been using a mini for about a year and no problems. In fact, it's the best working starter I've ever had. But that's besides the point. It's what he has and we're trying to solve an issue with clearance. Seems like if the clearance is wrong, it wouldn't matter what kind of starter it is. I've heard of flex plates tearing up starter teeth.
     
  12. Sorry for not answering to the topic at hand but I'd like to coment about Mini Stater's. I will only use GM metric mini starters, all you need is the correct bolt's (metric shank, SAE thread). Never had any issue's with these unit's.
     
  13. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,793

    tfeverfred
    Member

    We did that to check the distance from the bendix to the flex plate. It's right. It's the fit in between the teeth that seems to be the issue. Right now, the flex plate teeth are into the bendix as far as they'll go and there's a gap. I can't get a wire to see how far the bendix teeth are into the flex plate. but by measuring both it's a little less than a 1/16". The length of the flex plate teeth won't let it get any closer into the bendix teeth..
     
  14. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,793

    tfeverfred
    Member

    Same here. Like I said, it cured my issues a year ago and has been trouble free. My engine turns over, if I breath on my key.:D I'm never going back.
     
  15. willys1
    Joined: Oct 31, 2012
    Posts: 1,021

    willys1
    Member
    from South Ga

    I agree ^^^ >>>I only use gm and never had an issue. Good junkyard items while you're out there:)
     
  16. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,547

    stimpy

    if you use a mini starter , they are rated for harder to start high compression engines and use a better heat treated bendix gear to hold up to the extra torque , so when you replace the flexplate look for a SFI one as the teeth on them are ussually harder too . the cheap oem ones are butter soft ( to quiet the gear mesh down ) and the harder bendix gear machines them down as the stock oem starter teeth are not as hard ( ussually sintered steel ) , we learned the hard way on a freinds O/T car with 10:1 compression , 2 Oem flex plates one year , replaced it with a SFi rated one , been 7 years . and when you start it it will be a little louder gear mesh too . but not annoying like a too tight or loose starter .

    My O/t truck w/BBC has a metric mini from Gm on it and its quiet . we used its type on race cars and had good results and quiet starts too , but with the sfi flex plate the bendix would wear out .
     
  17. Is it a GM mini that's giving you the problem? It's possible that that flex plate has run out or not run true. Like in egg shaped.
     
  18. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,793

    tfeverfred
    Member

    It doesn't seem to be a mini problem. Maybe a combination of both the mini and the flex plate. We bumped the engine, so that the worn teeth were where the bendix teeth are and it starts as it should. It seems like we moved it in far enough, but he's going to replace the flex plate anyway. Can't really tell if it's out of shape.
     
  19. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,237

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Does the bendix have the same tooth count as a stock one maybe its not the correct one ?
     
  20. ^^^^^ Man!!!!!!!, I sure did the English Language justice on reply #17 :eek:
     
  21. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,793

    tfeverfred
    Member

    He says he checked, when he got it and it was the same count. It seems to be working, but we'll still replace the plate tomorrow.

    Another thing is, I've put 4 (FOUR) shims on the out board side to get it closer. I've never had to use more than 3... ever. We think the block may have been machined at one time.
     
  22. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,237

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Maybe that little chines kid with one eye and 7 fingers cardboard template was wore out when he made that one.
     
  23. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,793

    tfeverfred
    Member

    Not likely, but I bet he can spell, though.
     
  24. raengines
    Joined: Nov 6, 2010
    Posts: 227

    raengines
    Member
    from pa.

    are you using the proper GM starter bolts? they are important also.
     
  25. 40fordtudor
    Joined: Jan 3, 2010
    Posts: 2,503

    40fordtudor
    Member

    Agree.
     
  26. Keep
    Joined: May 10, 2008
    Posts: 662

    Keep
    Member

    If he is going to run it like it is, be sure to leave the cover off, and have a leather glove in the car.

    I ran a 305 like this for years, until I got tired of climbing under the car every time the engine stopped on the spot missing teeth...which seemed to happen quite a lot. Murphy and his tricks.
     
  27. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,793

    tfeverfred
    Member

    LOL That's the first thing I asked him. They look factory.
     
  28. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,793

    tfeverfred
    Member

    If it takes a while for the new flex plate to come, that's good advice.
     
  29. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,793

    tfeverfred
    Member

    Replaced flex plate with a TCI rated at SFI 29.1. Seems to be doing well. he's running without his dust cover to monitor any chewing.
     
  30. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 27,341

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    There is a big difference in those than the after market ones with the starter drive hanging out unsupported on the end of a shaft.

    It might help a lot to put a support strap on the end of the starter to steady it though.
     

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