Has anyone on the H.A.M.B. attempted or seen the dodge fluid drive with an aftermarket or homemade set up to run a floor shift fluid drive. I'm putting a 50 flathead six with fluid drive in a 1917 Dodge roadster. The drive train is fresh and what I have, I know a 3spd standard would be easier. Looking for suggestions, I thought about a shorty shift level for reverse only and a seperate shifter for the drive gears. Would this work?
IIRC, the fluid drive setup used a regular three-speed transmission behind a fluid coupling. I built a "T"-bucket in the mid '60's that used a 241" Dodge hemi. As I remember, it had a huge bellhousing that contained the fluid coupling (I think Dodge called it a "Gyro-Matic"). Anyhoo, I found a three speed transmission at the junk yard that had an extra long input shaft that would reach a conventional clutch with this bell housing, so that's what I used. It was a regular "select shifter" Mopar transmission and I made a floor shift unit for it. As to your idea, you are on the right track. On these transmissions, there are two levers. One lever shifts the gears (Reverse or First, and Second or Third). The second lever determines what set of gears the first lever is going to shift. I'm going from memory here, but I think the shaft for the first lever is vertical and sticks up on the side of the transmission while the second one is horizontal and is positioned about half way up. I had a shift stick from somewhere, so I welded it to a the stock shift arm on the first lever, so I could select which gear I wanted by moving the lever back and forth. The second lever is internally spring loaded to always shift second-third, unless it was depressed against the spring loading. I welded a smaller lever on this that just stuck through the floor. To get going, I would reach down and pull back on the spring loaded lever and move the first lever into the first gear position (which was forward). I'd take off, and when it was time to shift to second, I'd just pull back on the main lever and when it hit neutral, the spring loading in the transmission would automatically move it over into second-third position, and I would continue moving the lever, putting the transmission into second. After that, it was just push the main lever forward to grab third. It worked like a charm. The only drawback of this system is that you had to take both hands off the wheel to select first or reverse, which could occasionally be a problem. I contemplated how I could connect the two levers together so I could have a "one-handed" unit, but could never figure out a decent solution. What I ended up doing is using a starter solenoid from some long forgotten GM product to pull the spring loaded lever down when it was energized. This was hooked up to an electric push button on the main lever which allowed first or reverse to be selected with the touch of a finger (actually, a thumb). "Worked a treat!" as our British friends would say. I hope you could follow this. It was amazingly simple and amazingly effective.
I have a friend with a 48 Dodge roadster, wrong name, but it has the fluid drive with 3 speed manual on column. Seems like if you keep the 3 speed manual the shifting location would not matter?
The fluid drive is just the power transfer unit. Dodge used a collum shifted three speed and a collum selected dual range semi automatic behind the fluid drive unit. Hence the question, which transmission?
From what I can remember, the semi-automatic unit didn't come out until 1951, so the Fluid Drive for 1950 had a manual transmission behind it.
Mine is the fluid drive no solenoids on trans. Has the converter and clutch. Shifts like a three spd. Has 2 shift arms. Shop Manual shows one as reverse selector and the other shows drive selector.
Not to be pedantic, but Dodge referred to the manual transmission models as "Fluid Drive"; those models with the M6 were referred to as "Gyro-Matic" and the cars were respectively labelled as such. Unless the O/P misspoke, he is referring to a manual transmission setup. Although Chrysler's had the M6 as early as 1941, I found conflicting dates as to when it became available in Dodges. Edir : O/P posted while I was writing this; he does have a "Fluid Drive". My original post stands.
That sounds right. They were around before 1951, but they weren't in Dodges. Back to the 3 speed manual transmissions....
Well the advantage of the fluid connection, especially with a relatively light car, is that you wouldn't need first gear for normal driving. So one lever to select second and third and another for reverse and first as needed. My father had a 49 Dodge two door that when he was in the city or in traffic, just left it in second gear, and just used the brake and gas pedals. The fluid drive allowing it to be left in gear idling at stop. He usually completed the send to high gear change without using the clutch, and return to second could be accomplished at stop sans clutch also if the idle was set correctly at 450 to 500 rpm. He hardly ever used first unless the car was loaded down, or he was towing his pick up bed utility trailer full of camping gear or similarly loaded down. If your build is around 2000 lbs, you won't even miss first. If I recall second is 2.76 or 2.96 to one neighborhood third is 1 to 1 and a properly working FD unit is 95% efficient at transfer from engine to trans. You might even get used to leaving it in third and driving it with gas and brake only as Chrysler intended. Make sure you have a properly working parking brake. F D offers no compression braking with engine off. Fluid drives cars parked on slight grades were know to wander off if the p brake wasn't up to snuff.
My folks had a 49 Dodge with the fluid drive, 3 speed manual with clutch and a torque converter, the good thing was when the roads were snow covered you could leave it in 3rd gear and just use the brakes and throttle and it wouldn't spin a tire when taking off from a stop!
Thanks for the feedback and suggestions. I'll go with my plan for a standard type shifter for second and third and a short engage type lever for reverse. Hope this works.
No help here, but I learned to drive on a 53 Desoto with that kind of drive. My dad got it because it was easier for Mom to drive, especially on hills with a stop sign at the top. But for all practical purposes, excepting the first start forward or when reversing which required clutching to get rolling, it worked pretty much like a modern auto trans. So... why not use a slightly more modern MOPAR trans, and skip the clutch linkage and 3rd pedal completely? As a high school kid, I did have fun with the Desoto practicing up and down shifts as if I had a manual. Better for "chirp-outs," too. After all it was just a milquetoast 276 with no real poser in a very heavy 4-door. Gary
A "standard" 3-sp shifter won't work on the Dodge xmsn, because the unit had a selector type mechanism. You can see this mechanism as a small box on the side. When you pulled the shift lever back, the mechanism selected First-Reverse. The shift lever going up got Reverse, lever down; First. When the lever was released and allowed to go forward, (anticipating 2nd gear) nothing happened until you clutched. Then the selector popped out of the First-Reverse position and into 2nd/3rd position. If you held the lever back, this wouldn't happen of course. Now the shift lever going up got 2nd; down got 3rd. My school car was a '50 Dodge Coronet with the Fluid Drive and 3sp. This is a vertical "H" pattern shifter I made back in '64 to make it a floor shift. We had a 49 (?) Plymouth with the same transmission but less the Fluid Drive on which to build the prototype. It work much better than I had hoped; the main reason being that as you came out of 1st gear, the linkages tended to help the transmission slide right into 2nd. Never missed a shift. (I'm drawing on memory from back then, but here's what I came up with)
FWIW: Quite a few years ago, I worked w/a mechanic that in the past(some 20-30 years before I met him), had some sort of chrysler-product - Ply, I think, doesn't really matter - & when I mentioned that I had a '48 Chrysler Windsor convert, we got to talking about drivelines n such. Found out he actually liked the Fluid Drive-types , because he claimed, that what he n some others found out, was that you could modify the torus to lock it up, by running bolts thru it to prevent it from working as a fluid drive/driven unit, & just use the clutch normal-like. He said he "tightened up the clutch" although he didn't elaborate much. IIRC, he said he eventually either added more springs or stronger springs to the pressure plate. Said it was as easy to use as a std clutch car. The reason he said he did that to his cars, was he didn't like the slow acceleration of the fluid drive. He also said that he found it amusing to use it a "sleeper", 'cause nobody expected those things to accelerate faster than the moon coming up at night. He claimed he was serious & not lying... Might've been a good tale, <shrug> . I never got into the torus n clutch assbly to see if he was funnin' me or not. I have a FD now, but no time. Guess it'll be a "future-project". Behind about 43 others in front of it. . Marcus...
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