Technical Flathead wits end!?!?!??!

I have a stock 49 ford flattie. Summer of 14 i went to a car show 2 hrs away from here all interstate driveing 80 mph here in wyoming. Its boreing here so just keep driveing fast. When i went to that show it was in the upper 70s in the am 2 hr drive . All day show. At 4pm we leave 2 hr drive home. 95 and a long haul home. This place isnt flat. I got a new 6 volt thermostat stuck in the passenger side head stocker in the drivers side. Half way it was getting warm. It hit 230 on the new thermostat. She was hot . I got it back thats when i changes out the pumps and to the new champion 3 row aluminum radiator. A few weeks ago another show only 50 miles away up hill both ways like when going to school in the winter time. 93 in the afternoon 65 70 75 and hitting 80. I also have a aftermarket 6volt tach in it. It only hit 180 .When i got the car in dec of 13 it had the 94 carb on it and the stock radiator. I swapped the stock carb for a new super 97 from speedway. It started vapor locking on me but switch on the fuel pump and it goes away. I didnt like the 94 , My thoughts get a new carb and try that i had problem with that 94 and it was even rebuilt. Westach has the 6 volt tachs and other 6 volt guages.

 

Really? A six volt thermostat eh?

 

6 volt bulb

 

I also fought a 94 carb problem, I only had one, I can't imagine having two. I spent more money on the 94, than what I paid for a new Edelbrock, my problems went away. I know 4 barrels are not cool on a flat motor, but I'm interested in riding.

 

I'm truly and honestly starting to think it's a condenser, which I will replace as soon as my intake gasket comes in so I can run the car to test. I have good compression, more than enough fuel if anything, and I've gone through everything in this dizzy except the condenser. I keep finding story after story with brandy new condensers being bad and since I don't have a spare for this Chevy dizzy anyway, I figure I might as well grab one. If it fixes the problem, I'll grab two. .


Basically at this point, other than a minor intake leak, everything that is checkable, checks out or is brand new AND checks out, except the condenser. It's brand new but I have no real way of checking it.


I will update as soon as I get it back together.

 

Hey bud, to each their own. I don't judge anyone for doing whatever they have to in order to drive their flattie. I'm kind of a tuning nazi, which is why this is really frustrating me. My Shovelhead is a one kick bike with a carb that I built for it. I've tuned a few cars on a dyno and was a tech for years. I prefer multiple carbs on a flathead because the intake design is just not conducive to a single fuel draw location. It's been proven that 2 & 3 carb manifolds always produce more power than a 4 bbl carb on a flathead. But if you're going for quick, easy, and reliable, nothing's better than a more modern carb.

Enjoy your ride man!

 

If your shovel has points ignition and a known good condensor try it,it will work fine in your distributor.

 

That makes even less sense.

 

Update:

So I just finished installing the new intake gasket and condenser. It behaves exactly the same. I am going to swap dizzy's again tomorrow and see if I can get it to run right with the factory dizzy. Will update tomorrow.

 

Update 7/10/2016 Sunday:

Okay, this may be long winded. I know that this thread has had some personality clashed, but I am really stumped at this point. My mind is starting to come up with crazy theories and I'm getting pretty nervous.

So to refresh, so people don't have to read the whole post: Fresh rebuilt 8BA (200 miles), 4" merc crank, .080 over, Schneider 260F cam, new valvetrain with shimmed stock springs and hollow Johnson style lifters from reds, single carb (8BA with idle screws 1 to 1-1/2 turns out), stock heads and intake, reds headers, stock generator, fluidampr crank damper, 2 gauge wires from battery to solenoid and to drivers side head, 4 gauge cable going from rear of drivers head to body.

Problem: I have a misfire that starts around 1200-1300 rpm seemingly as a single cylinder and becomes worse as the RPM's increase. The engine resists increased revs and pops out of the exhaust. The vacuum doesn't seem to hop around much when it misfires, and it happens regardless of vacuum. It will misfire @15" or @5".

Things I've tried:
-Coil
-Plugs
-Wires
-swapped to Bubba's Chevy Dizzy
-Cap & rotor on Bubba's dizzy
-Condenser on both dizzys
-Points on stock dizzy
-Fuel Pump
-Checked intake and block for flatness with machinists straight edge and replaced gasket with Fel Pro using Gasgacinch sparingly
-Checked compression and had between 115-120 in all cylinders
new power valve and then 6.5" power valve.
-Jetted carb step by step going up to a 57 jet. now back to stock 51 jet
-visually checked valvtrain multiple times and grabbed all valve springs firmly to make sure none are loose.
-engine pulls around 17" of vacuum at idle
-checked and reset timing multiple times with both a timing light and a vacuum gauge.
-relocated coil to fender well.
-checked head bolt torque
-retorqued exhaust manifolds
-added ground from body to Bubba's dizzy


I did notice that in Bubba's dizzy, the coloring on the terminals inside the cap show that the spark is happening very late on the terminals. The car seems to run best with the factory distributor (advance disconnected) set advanced far enough that it wont start when hot. This is the best lead I have. Otherwise I don't know where to look. At this point, I am thinking either valve float or maybe the timing gear is off? I have never been this stumped. It's as if everything I check leads me to another question mark......

 

Power valve for 94 style carb not new style? New style dont seat properly in a 94.


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Power valves are correct for 94 style carb.

 

Youve tried a different carb?


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Actually I don't have a known good carb. I thought mine was a known good carb, because it came off of a perfectly fine running car before, but maybe not. I have 4 other 3 bolt 2 barrels, but they are all either missing parts or in need of a full rebuild.


I'm having trouble narrowing down what to check next. I'm really thinking it's either a cam grind phasing problem or valve float. I took GoPro footage of the valve train before I put the intake back on and am going to watch it tonight to see if I can see anything. The fact that the Chevy dizzy cap was burnt of the very edge of the cap terminals is trying to tell me something, I just don't know what.

 

Where have you got the vacuum advance hose going to? The original port on the original carb gets vacuum off idle and again when the revs come up.. thats manifold vacuum early and venturi signal at rpm...right about where you say you have a miss. The two distributors work in very different ways....the Ford Loadamatic is totally vacuum advance....no mechanical advance whatsoever. Chevy distributor should have manifold vacuum. NOT ported vacuum .Timing ( initial) should be , 1 degree set at idle with the hose off and port plugged , which will give you some advance for a smooth idle once the hose goes back on.

Timing should ideally initially retard as you open throttle and then advance to about 22-26 crankshaft degrees ( absolute max for a flathead) by about 2000 rpm.
I suspect the distributor you have, may be advancing to more than is ideal ( or needed) for the flathead, firstly by the mechanical advance and THEN when rpms come up the signal ( vacuum) at the port on the carb is adding MORE advance via the Chevy vacuum advance . Could be 12-14 degrees . The amount should be stamped on the mounting plate for the Chevy vacuum advance pot.
How much mechanical advance was built into the distributor ( remembering you must double that to get the crankshaft degree you see with a timing light.)

The Ford spec for your motor ( stock 1951 8BA..) is 10-11.25 distributor degrees at 2000 rpm ,...3.7 inches of vacuum. That is only 20 to 22.5 crankshaft degrees plus the 1 degree static timing. Total 21 to 23.5 degrees.

Stock Chevy distributor has around 12-14 degrees at 2000 rpm , which gives you around 36 crankshaft degrees ..i.e 24-28 mechanical plus the 8-12 degrees initial static initial timing on a Chev.
That could give you possibly 38 degrees advance on your flathead, if the vacuum advance goes all the way to 14 degrees at say 2300rpm.
So in summary, I think move the vacuum hose to a manifold port, and limit the mechanical advance in the distributor so a maximum crankshaft advance is about 20-25 degrees.

 

No vacuum advance and the dizzy was specifically built to run on my flattie by GMCBubba from this forum. Supposedly it has 20 degrees full mechanical advance all in by 2500 I believe. I'd have to call and ask Jim again. The truth is, I told him my exact motor setup and he built the distributor for it.

And yes, the vacuum port on the carb is properly blocked off.


Does anyone know why the cap terminals all seem burnt on the trailing edge? Dwell wrong?

 

Any solution yet?

 

Haven't been able to work on the car in a couple weeks. My parents are moving to Florida so I've been hecticly helping them. I plan to be back on the car in a week or two.

 

I managed to mess up a mallory dizzy I was rebuilding a couple years back and found a youtube video on how to reset the phase. basically you take a cap and cut it open so you can see the spark on #1 cylinder. setup your ignition on a bench. I drove mine with a rubber hose and a drill. watch the spark to see the phase. make sure you set the dwell and gap before you do it. I think I posted about it on the Hamb so if you search up some of my posts you may find it.

 

here is th eyoutube vid from MSD

 

Here Kev.

rebuilding a Mallory YC-310HP??

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/index.php?posts/9489140/

 

Ever figure this thing out?