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Technical Flathead with a sideloader?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Boden, Sep 25, 2019.

  1. Boden
    Joined: Oct 10, 2018
    Posts: 429

    Boden

    How would a stock 49-53 ford 3 speed toploader hold up behind a 200hp flathead. Would I break gears all the time. And I have 3:53s in the rear I think. How would that car drive ? I have the gears from the fordomatic trans.


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    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  2. How much abuse are you planning?
     
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  3. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 14,286

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Usually the flathead goes in front of the trans. But there are a lot of weird bellhousing adapters out there.....
     
  4. Boden
    Joined: Oct 10, 2018
    Posts: 429

    Boden

    Sorry about that. Haha. How would the trans hold up behind a hot flathead?


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  5. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 4,375

    tubman
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    No such thing a "a stock 49-53 ford 3 speed toploader", so I think we need a little more information. If you are referring to just a stock '49-'53 transmission (which is a "sideloader"), a true 200 hp flathead would probably shell one out pretty easily. However 200 hp flatheads (un-supercharged) are scarcer than hen's teeth, so you might be OK. If you really can get this kind of power, a good choice would be a later BW T85 that will stand up to an FE.

    In the end, it all depends how you drive it. If you use common sense, it will be fine. If you are constantly playing "Ricky Racer", you will inevitably break something.
     
  6. Boden
    Joined: Oct 10, 2018
    Posts: 429

    Boden

    Ok thanks. Thanks for correcting me on calling it a toploader. Now I know it’s a side loader. Ur probably right. My motors probably producing 175-180hp. Thanks for the reply!


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  7. KenC
    Joined: Sep 14, 2006
    Posts: 271

    KenC
    Member

    In my earlier, dumber years I was able to break stock 49-53 gears with stock 49-53 flatheads. Usually shelled a tooth or more off of the Low-Reverse slider. Sometimes cluster too.
    Light foot and it should last well, heavy foot and axle hop, not so long.
     
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  8. No matter what there's always a Fuse Link in the drive chain with this Old Stuff. When you make one thing Bullet Proof it just moves the Fuse down the line,,, for a while. You'll always be able to brake something if you push hard enough.
     
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  9. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,743

    RichFox
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    My brother had a stock 49 Ford in the later fiftys. He had a hole in the floor to make it easier to get to the transmission. Just left it open. Maybe he needed to work on his speed shifts. Hey. I have a nice floor shift conversion for sale cheap if you are interested
     
  10. jimgoetz
    Joined: Sep 6, 2013
    Posts: 324

    jimgoetz
    Member

    My first car was 53 Ford stick 6cyl. Maybe 100 hp and I tore up several trans in it but I drove it like real A-hole.
     
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  11. GordonC
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,564

    GordonC
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    I have a 1950 8BA. Bored an 1/8"over, 4 inch crank, Schneider cam, Bubba's ignition, yada yada, and I would be surprised if it made 150 to 160 hp. Unless you are going to get exotic with stroke and induction, as noted earlier, it probably won't see 200 hp, but if you beat on it of course it won't hold up. I don't plan on beating mine up but put a 1966 Ford mustang 4 speed top loader with the top shift conversion in my A. Now I don't have to worry about it.
     
  12. dan c
    Joined: Jan 30, 2012
    Posts: 1,906

    dan c
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    my experience? a stock flathead will do a number on a stock trans!
     
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  13. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 4,375

    tubman
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    RichFox - If you offer of a floor shift conversion is serious, I'd be interested depending on price and who made it.
     
  14. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,743

    RichFox
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    upload_2019-9-26_12-43-41.jpeg It's a Spark O Matic. New in package. I would like to get $45 for it. Plus shipping. Feel free to insult me with a low ball offer. But understand I may not take it.
     
  15. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 4,375

    tubman
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    Conversation started. (I don't want to look like an idiot in public.):D
     
  16. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 25,546

    Mr48chev
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    I'd think that more of those transmissions were broken by driver malfunction than engine power. They just don't take well to being abused in any way shape or form.
    I had a twin to that Sparkomatic shifter in my 51 Merc and it constantly got hung up between gears. I got real good at pulling the shift boot up and slipping my hubcap iron down in front of it to pop it back in neutral.
     
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  17. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,743

    RichFox
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    My friend Larry Climbie had
    My friend Larry Climbie had the same problum. Jerry Szuter and I crawled under his Pontiac and adjusted the rods until it went away. As far as I know it stayed away.
     
  18. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 5,900

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    I think I put one in my '65 Comet..Fit ok and was pretty smooth I thought..
     
  19. The stock rearend isn't that strong. if you go to a heavier full syncro trans then next you will need a 9 inch rear end. use skinny tires and you can smoke them a bit and not tear anything up.
     
  20. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,743

    RichFox
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    A nine inch for a flathead?" Are you kidding? I knew several guys with 49 type Fords when they were "used cars" Beat the heck out of them. Larry ran one in the $99 claimer races at Alviso. Never heard of a broken rear end.
     
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  21. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 4,375

    tubman
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    In my high school '51 that I had back in the late fifties, I broke several axles, but never the rear end itself. It's funny, because that thing howled like a banshee on deceleration from the time I got it until I junked it. Axles were $5 at Carmichel's and we got pretty good at changing them.
     
  22. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,743

    RichFox
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    The reason 49 Fords are not good claimers is. When you hit someone the cast iron water pump motor mounts break and the fan hits the radiator. You could probably fix some chains to something and keep that from happening. But we didn't. Dumb kids.
     
  23. I have a junk 53 ford three speed car. and I did sell axle to someone who broke one. The rear looks like the rears in 56 ford cars. And I shelled them out pretty easily after I swapped to a FE. Swapped to a nine inch and never broke anything.
     
  24. dan c
    Joined: Jan 30, 2012
    Posts: 1,906

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    ditto with my '53. that got REAL old!
     
  25. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 4,375

    tubman
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    Yeah, you had to pull the other axle and the chunk just to get the broken off stub out. what a pain! We tried a magnet glued on the end of a broomstick, but it didn't work.:(
     
  26. brjnelson
    Joined: Oct 13, 2002
    Posts: 419

    brjnelson
    Member

    My opinion is that Traction brakes parts, my old Bias ply 'stones are the fuse protecting me from broken parts on my car.
     
  27. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,071

    Beanscoot
    Member

    "Yeah, you had to pull the other axle and the chunk just to get the broken off stub out. what a pain! We tried a magnet glued on the end of a broomstick, but it didn't work.:("

    I bet with the new super duper Neodymium magnets you could get that piece out. Use a barrel shaped magnet with a good thick plastic pipe to keep it off the sides of the axle shaft.
     
  28. Rusty Knutts
    Joined: Feb 8, 2008
    Posts: 87

    Rusty Knutts
    Member

  29. deucemac
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 977

    deucemac
    Member

    Well, I made quite a good living in high school doing Ford/Mercury transmissions as a side line. Top shift or side shift doesn't matter. The trans will work well and last a long time if treated carefully. However, hard use, speed shifting, or dumping the clutch will rapidly destroy them. Put them behind an overhead and they come apart like the gears were made of plastic or shredded wheat. I've had guys show off on the way home from buying one and not make it home because of the perfect abuse of the trans. Anf, on the other hand, I owned a '49 business coupe for several years and never hurt the trans or clutch. But, I was older and much wiser, a lot was based on the observation and money I made as a kid, doing transmissions for unlucky guys! I still do a few for friends these days, after the first hundred or so, they get pretty easy to do. Moral, care = life, hot rod shifts and burn outs=sudden death. Your choice.
     
  30. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 4,375

    tubman
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    Yep, these old Ford transmissions last a lot longer when you're old. Or at least it seems that way.:rolleyes:
     
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