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Technical Flathead/T5 racket – fool me once...

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Kevin Lee, May 2, 2015.

  1. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,433

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    I swore off Speedway after an incident with soft adjustable lifters eating an expensive cam... and Speedway claiming absolutely no responsibility.

    But dammit I caved with my T5 conversion and ordered everything I should need from them. Everything – bellhousing, clutch disc, pressure plate, throwout bearing, adapter bushings, pilot bearing, etc. This should be a slam dunk, yeah? Well, a few trips up and down my driveway and it's making an awful racket.

    Only happens when the clutch pedal is out (wether it's on gear or not) and it sounds like there is contact between the pressure plate and bellhousing. Of course there is no inspection window.

    Anyone have a similar experience? Looks like everything is coming back apart soon.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2015
  2. tjelwood
    Joined: Jun 27, 2006
    Posts: 164

    tjelwood
    Member
    from oklahoma

    On mine I had to do some grinding on the bellhousing because the flywheel was rubbing.
     
  3. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,433

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Good god... fuck you, Speedway.
     
  4. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,845

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Kevin, I don't know anything about that setup you have. Does it have a hyd. TO Brg. or what? Many of the late model cars using a T5 have a hyd. setup that keeps the p. plate fingers in light contact with the TO Brg. and some of the cable systems are similar.
    The McCloud Hyd TO Brg used in BGII (my roadster) is one the collar like a normal TO BRG, but spaced out to lightly contact the pp fingers with pedal all way up.
    When I questioned McCloud rep about this, he said almost all late model manuals are set up like that.
    If you are using a Long type p plate, maybe the 3 fingers aren't adjusted quite the same.
     

  5. 45 years ago I started tearing up second gear/cluster gears in early Ford Trans behind built flatmotors(big bore,stroke, etc) I opted for a Chevrolet 4 spd usin Offie adapter(5272a) served me well for years behind many flatmotors.Bought a Speedway adaptor for $100 less than Offy only to find out it rubbed(made motor lock up) in the clutch area unless bellhousing was spaced out approx 3/8 between engine and bellhousing.Speedway will sell you a "slim clutch" for around $150 or so.If you run bigger than 9-9.5 clutch,you will need spacers between adapter and engine.The Offy part is made for more clearance than the Speedway part(read the fine print in the Speedway ad)
     
    loudbang likes this.
  6. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,845

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    In his first post, Kevin said it only makes the noise when clutch pedal is out, and that doesn't sound like an interference between p. plate & bell hsg., as that would rub all the time.
    I'm still wondering about p plate fingers out of equal adjustment if it's a setup similar to mine.
     
  7. Clutch counter weights may be hitting the adapter bell. What size pressure plate are you running?
    I used the Bond adapter plate and a hogshead with no issues, but the speedway clutch disc was pure trash.
     
  8. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,855

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    How about some more information--- Which T5 was used? Maybe the throwout bearing sleeve is hitting the arms.
     
  9. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,845

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Again, Kevin says noise is only when clutch is engaged, and all these things yall are suggesting should interfere all the time, not just when clutch is engaged, in or out of gear.
    The only one of these suggestion that makes any sense to me is maybe the counterweights, since they do have a different position when engaged vs disengaged.
     
  10. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 19,513

    Ryan
    ADMINISTRATOR
    from Austin, TX
    Staff Member

    I bet when you take it apart it will be really obvious which Chinese parts are interfering with each other...

    And yeah, Speedway... The American way...
     
    1-SHOT likes this.
  11. Ryan... Thanks for posting that "American way"..... I missed it originally.
    Very eye opening...... (Really..... You'd think they'd at least write different instructions)


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  12. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,855

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    Right, noise is when pedal is out (clutch engaged). If the throwout sleeve is too long (which some T5s are) then the sleeve could be protruding into the pressure plate springs. All respect, but you gotta prove your case before you throw the vendor under the bus.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  13. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,845

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You have a point Mike, as the p. plate fingers do extend further to rear with clutch engaged, so that makes 3 things that can be causing a noise only with clutch engaged. I agree with Ryan about the problem should be easy to spot when pulled back apart,
    And I wholeheartedly agree, it ain't time yet to throw the vendor under the bus. I don't like it that Speedway sells so much Chinese stuff. But in today's world of a majority of consumers who only consider price before purchasing, it's about the only way they can compete. It ain't just Speedway, I've got a Summit store just 20 miles from me that has thousands of sq. ft. of warehouse, with a lot of Chinese stuff in it.
    And I bought stuff from a local guy who gets his stuff from Barnett/BCI in ATL, who has been around forever, some of it was Chinese when it arrived, some is OK, but some of it caused me a lot of work to R&R with better stuff.
     
  14. AeroCraftsman
    Joined: Jul 29, 2004
    Posts: 329

    AeroCraftsman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Had the exact same problem, although mine interfered so much that it wouldn't even crank. Chucked the adapter up in the lathe and cleaned up the inside where the casting was too thick. Problem solved. Just a pain to have to dis and re assemble.
     
  15. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,433

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Well, it looks like I have a pressure plate with counterweights that do not clear the bell. I'll know for sure when I crack it open but that's where all signs are currently pointing.

    Now, is it noted on Speedway's site? There is mention of it. So you could say ultimately it's my fault for not fully researching it, EXCEPT that I used the part number RECOMMENDED BY SPEEDWAY. (Reference the 10" long style pressure plate)

    http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Chevy-T-5-Transmission-to-Flathead-Adapter-Kit,35584.html

    And here is a separate page with a vague reference to potential problems.

    http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Flath...In-14-Spline-S-10-T-5-Transmission,38143.html

    I may call them tomorrow, but I'm not expecting much in the way of help. And either way I'm stuck with completely disassembling the front end of my truck to find the issue and fix it.
     
  16. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,991

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    This is traditional. In the fifty's nothing ever was a bolt on. You expected that you were buying a good start on what they advertised. Still true sometimes I guess.
     
  17. Yes.
     
  18. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,845

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have to agree with Rich Fox, as when there is as much cautionary info posted as was posted about the adaptor and p.plate, a prudent and cautious builder would have at leas turned the engine a few rounds to check for interference,and it would have forestalled all the grief that Kevin now faces in disassembly.
    I ran into a similar situation trying to finish up a roadster that I bought with a Brookville rolling chassis "A" already mocked up with a 9" rear, 4spd Mustang toploader with jeep shifter and sbc engine using a McCloud bell hsg and plate adaptor. I measured and had an alum. Crown Vic cop car driveshaft shortened to fit and balanced as mocked up and figgered I had all that right.
    But then I actually built my engine, complete with flywheel, clutch disc and p.plate, bell hsg. and adaptor. Well, the input shaft was too short! Investigation revealed that somebody @ McCloud had sold the prev. owner an apaptor plate he didn't need, as a spacer ring still in the box and another bolt pattern already drilled and tapped in the bell hsg. eliminated the need for the adaptor and solved the "Too Short" input shaft problem.
    Lots of measuring, disassembly and reassembly to get it right and now I have a nice aluminum driveshaft that's 3/4" shorter than the optimum length. It's working, but sometime soon I'm either going to get another driveshaft built or install a longer yoke.
    Moral of the story is that when we fail to check everything (and I did fail to check that first) it will often bite you in the ass!:)
     
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  19. 36tbird
    Joined: Feb 1, 2005
    Posts: 1,083

    36tbird
    Member

    How big of a clutch did you try to run? On car flatheads you don't need the big truck clutches. I'm betting your knuckles are draggin' cuz you tried to run a 10" or bigger clutch.
     
  20. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,845

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Too bad the Auburn clutch isn't still around. No weights, lightweight, and tight grip. They were the clutch to run back inna day.
     
  21. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 7,258

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    Offenhauser bell housing carries the same warning, where is that one made?
     
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  22. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,991

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I remember the first adapter I ever bought. Long bell housing Chrysler to a Packard three speed. I thought once it came I was home free. It came with a list of what I was going to have to scrounge from the junk yard. And info on the drill I would need for the crankshaft and a drawing of what I needed to cut and grind off the bellhousing. Not that great for a kid with few tools. Another reason I decided to become a machinist.
     
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  23. denis4x4
    Joined: Apr 23, 2005
    Posts: 3,676

    denis4x4
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Colorado

    There were than a few times when I was writing installation instructions for speed equipment that I wanted to add the following: THIS IS A VERY EASY JOB PROVIDED YOU HAVE A FULL MACHINE SHOP AT YOUR DISPOSAL AND A MACHINIST FRIEND WITH AT LEAST 20 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE
     
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  24. 2935ford
    Joined: Jan 6, 2006
    Posts: 3,508

    2935ford
    Member

    For me these days.....any vendor parts I receive, I simply expect them to all need some massaging......or possibly not even fit.........just a fact of life today.
    not saying I like it! ):

    Their is one supplier in California when you order....receive it......it just falls into place and you bolt it on and carry on!
    He has done his homework.
    that is so refreshing......... :)
     
  25. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,845

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I sure would like to know who that supplier is, and maybe a link?
     
  26. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,433

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Well being the prudent and cautious builder I am, once I assembled everything I turned the engine a few rounds to check for interference and... none was detectable. Also had the truck in neutral rolling it back and forth through the shop as I worked on it and guess what? No issues there either. No noises. It only showed itself once the engine was started, revved a few times and sat idling. It is only a tiny bit of contact but it makes a huge racket once it's spun up.

    Just to be clear, I've done my share of modifying so please don't think I'm some naive ding dong running around scooping stuff out of catalogs with the expectation of building a car with a few wrenches.

    My view is simply this: When a company that SELLS THE PARTS TO DO THIS CONVERSION THE CORRECT WAY decides to go ahead and toss a part number that WILL NOT FIT into the mix – that is bad business. Full stop.

    Cornhuskers is smart enough to have their bolt on solution figured out. And that is who I will go to if I ever have to do this again. (Class act, those guys. Even took the time to send me a PM with some advice on this deal)

    In closing I take full responsibility for the problem. Not because the parts don't fit, but because I decided to give Speedway my money in the first place.
     
    belair likes this.
  27. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 19,513

    Ryan
    ADMINISTRATOR
    from Austin, TX
    Staff Member

    I'm with you on that one... There's a reason that most working shops only deal with Speedway when they absolutely have to. And there is a reason Speedway is still in business.

    At the end of the day, buy from those you know...
     
    1-SHOT likes this.
  28. Shamus
    Joined: Jul 20, 2005
    Posts: 1,197

    Shamus
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NC

    I run a T5 behind a '52 Merc with Cornhusker adapter, hydraulic cylinder & PP in my roadster - works great!! Only go to Speedway for simple stuff.
     
    pitman likes this.
  29. This is not what I wanted to read man. Damn. Let me know what I can do to help please.
     
  30. OzyRodder
    Joined: Dec 11, 2012
    Posts: 292

    OzyRodder
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Mine did exactly the same thing. Only made the noise with clutch in. Didn't start until three months after install though. Turned out to be the springs in the clutch disc were rattling as the retaining metal had fractured.

    New clutch disc from a new vendor and fixed.
     

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