Flathead Jack Is A Crook!

Im guessing that you started with a Mercomatic. In that case all you need is a stick shift starter to mate with the new starter plate which is how Flato supplies the package.
And as mentioned contact Flato. CALL Flato directly and talk to Gene. He is an honest person and a true gentleman and rodder. Ive bought 2 of his flathead kits and one for a Y Block.
Not an asshole like Fl$$hole jack. Ive met the guy, that was enough to convince me to never buy from him.

 

So 286 Merc are you saying the starters are different for the Mercomatic and the stick shift? I think that was what I was alluding to with my post to Bruce. I seem to remember something like that just can't nail it down in this 67 year old mind.

 

Well Guys A Few Things, I Have Receipts For A Couple G's From Flathead Jack Schafer, I Continued To Shop With Him Because He Had The Parts I Was Looking For. Though I Never Appreciated His Egotism (i Call It An Attitude) I Still Gave Him My Money. Now He Sold Me These Parts Telling Me They Would Work, In The Instructions From Gene It Clearly States That There Are Four Possible Fomoco Starter Plates, Three Will Work And The Fourth Which Was Stamped At An Angle Because Some Of The Bellhousings Were Not Manufactured Properly Will Not Work . It Says Do Not Use This One It Jambs The Starter Into The Flywheel. Jack Sold Me This Combination Of Parts. When I Spoke To Gene ( Always Very Informative And Helpful) He Was Very Displeased To Hear Of His (jack) Disservice To His Customers. Gene Also Said He Has Heard This Many Times Before. All I Am Saying Is Jack Should Give Me My Money Back Or Purchase The New Machined Alluminum Plate That Gene Offers And Exchange It For Me. That Is What Any Customer Would Expect, Not To Be Told He Didnt Have Time And Then Hang Up On Me.

 

Like 97 said "power of the HAMB". I have alot of flatheads and don't need to buy from somebody like this.

 

I gotta tell ya my personal experiance with Flathead Jack has been nothing but great, he always had what I needed, was nice to talk too, and my stuff arrived in a timly manner. Hell he even gave me a t-shirt and a book once. I will continue to buy from him.Thats my 2 cents.

 

Ain't that the truth. If you know what you are doing, you can make anything work. If you don't, nothing will work.

Are you using the parts recommended, or something that looks like it's right? I've done several Flato conversions, and there is some measuring and fitting involved to make it work right. If you have the plate mismatched to the bell, it won't work. There is one plate for cast bells, and another for stamped bells.

There are some customers that you would rather have bitch because you wouldn't deal with them, than bitch because you did.

 

I AM USING THE PARTS HE SOLD ME AND SAID WOULD WORK, I PURCHASED THE COMPLETE PACKAGE TO TRY AND AVOID THESE TYPES OF PROBLEMS. I AM NOT ONE TO BITCH, BUT I HAVE FOLLOWED ALL AVENUES AND TALKED TO MANY PEOPLE WHICH HAVE ALL SAID THIS PLATE WILL NOT WORK UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. NOW WITH THAT SAID IF JACK IS THE "GURU" THEN MAYBE HE MADE A MISTAKE WHEN HE SOLD ME THIS PART, I THEN CONTACTED JACK FOR HIS GUIDANCE ON THIS PART AND WAS SHUT DOWN, I GAVE HIM THE OPPORTUNITY TO HELP ME OR EXCHANGE THE PART TO CORRECT THE SITUATION AND HE WOULDNT. WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE ME, HIS CUSTOMER? WITH A USELESS PART! AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED THAT MAKES HIM A CROOK.

 

Will you quit fucking yelling, damn you're acting like a little cry baby. Yeah it sucks, yeah it's not right, but quit fucking yelling about it....

 

That would be way too easy Steve, besides if he did that he'd have nothing to bitch about, Heaven forbid someone has to modify something to make it work on a hot rod!

 

whats a shim and how does it work?? did they use shims back in the 50's?

 

If you exibited the same interpersonal skills one the phone with Flathead Jack that you have exibited thus far on the HAMB, its no surprise he hung up on you.

Where Did You Learn To Type?

 

There were two starter plates for late model flatheads. One had the starter mount parallel to the plate. The other mounts the starter at an angle to the plate. You have the one that mounts the starter at an angle. This one was used on the stamped steel full bell housing the bottom of which was angled slightly for God only knows what reason. All you need to do it get the other style starter plate that mounts to the cast bell housing. These things should be a dime a dozen. If you can't find one locally, call Red Hamilton at Red's Headers. He can probably get you one for not much money.

 

Posts like this really don't amount to very much, they seem like they do in the beginning but then they spiral downward so fast. I have not dealt with Flathead Jack a lot, but I have dealt with him...and he was great. I know a few others that have also had good relationships with him. There are always two sides to everything and getting on here and dissing him won't fix your problem. Give it a day or two, calm down, call him back, and maybe you guys can sort it out. Maybe he was having a bad day, I can be a real asshole when I am hungry or frustrated with a client. Maybe there was a miscommunication as to which combo of parts you have and needed to fit together? Anyway, really none of my business, so I hope it all works out for you and you can get that car going. I had a starter plate problem once and the starter was angled and would bind up, I had the wrong starter plate. Never knew there were a few made. Oh well, live and learn.

Good luck,
Adam

 

haha. we need a baby crying smiley.

 

yes Mr 9, they did use them in the 50's, I'm not sure if it was Vic Edelbrock or Barney Navarro that invented the illusive shim, also known as an angle washer, boy what times those must have been.

 

I've tried to deal with O'l Jack a couple times. I new exactly what I wanted, I didn't want anything other than that. Well I had to get asked why do you want this with that, and dont use this if you have that. I've probably forgotten more about flatheads than He'll ever know. Then last time I wanted a sling shot alt bracket, not the cheap Speedway one, but the nice cast aluminum one, well I thought he would have it, when I asked I got a lecture on how stupid i was for wanting to put an alternator on a flathead! All he had to say was sorry sir, I don't carry that item. He is a total DICK as far as I am concerned, and I hope he does loose some $'s over this post. Red's, Speedway, and Motor City are the ones I care to deal with.

 

I believe we have been through this before. This is a car site,not typing class.
Now if I read his post correctly, he bought the complete kit. He didn't use a different starter plate.

 

Internet rule #1 DO NOT TYPE IN CAPITAL LETTERS as it appears you are shouting and who in the hell wants to hear somebody shouting at them?

Internet rule #2 If you're gonna type in CAPS don't do it one HAMB or you'll get dizzed. You have ignored the hints before on this post.

Internet rule #3 If you continue to type in CAPS on the HAMB you'll be banned and then who in the hell are you gonna shout at?

Internet rule #4 Shouting at someone never helps anybody and it is prolly why FH Jack said goodbye

 

hahahahaa... best post in this thread so far!

 

ABSOLUTELY different and not interchangable. This holds with any Fordomatic or Mercomatic behind a flathead.
Everyone keeps harping about different starter plates and flywheels when it has nothing to do with this guys problem.

There is so damn much misinformation from people who do not fully understand the vagaries of the beast as well as the differences between early blocks and the 8BA family. But they have to post anyway and just add to the confusion. Bad day, end of rant.

 

Skip, I had to build a time machine to get some angled shims b/c some "asshole" HAMBER sent me an early SBC intake to go on my later SBC! Maybe I should have posted a thread and bitched about it!

 

ABSOLUTLY it ought to fit, all anyone wants is good value for their dollar

 

Been there and done that with both the plate and the starter. He may have both problems. According to Flat-O-Matic, you are supposed to use the cast half bell housing from a truck or you will have to do some carving on the stamped steel half bell housing. I was presuming that he has the cast half bell housing as recommended. If not, then the starter plate may be correct (I can't remember if they used the angled plate or not) and the problem could be the automatic transmission starter. The bottom line on the plate is, when it is all buttoned up, does the starter sit parallel with the crankshaft or does it sit at an angle. If it sits at an angle, then it isn't right. If it sits right, then find another starter.

 

Holy Shit! I can't believe what I'm seeing, it appears to be some sort of angle shim? How in the world did you do that? I am amazed that you had the patience to figure something out rather THAN BITCH ABOUT IT IN CAPITAL LETTERS ON THE HAMB

 

Gene At flat-o Products does not sell the kit with that starter plate. He showed me one of them one time when i was i to see him and they are for a different belhousing that is cut at an angle at the bottom and it think they are for trucks, he he knows for sure. I have the correct plate and gene now makes new ones for the stuff he sells. Sounds like it's not one of his kits, but maybe speedway?.
Kinda sounds like your gonna have to get the correct plate, regardless of what Jack does, which is really to bad. Any way to get a refund on all of it and get the correct one? I've been had by Canfield cylinder heads, so i do a ton of free negative advertising for them now and for ever. Good luck.

 

Let's cut to the chase. The original post says that the starter is at an angle. It is, therefore, not the right starter plate. It is the starter plate for a stamped bell housing which is angled to match the angle on the bell housing which then lets the starter sit straight.

If you can get $220 for a starter plate, then I need to go flathead mining.

 

To get some tech mileage out of this post, let's look at those plates and starters; I only personally know Merc and truck, which are similar-but-different. Merc nearly plain flat thing with raised (and straight!) starter pad, truck much the same but has stamped in boss around edge and various stiffening ridges.

There seems to be a slanted one, plate slanted to fit an odd bell, starter slanted axially to make it parallel to crank, which can fit where above two plates go but which then makes starter significantly misaligned axially. I've seen Fordbarn discussions started by several different people on this thing, but I don't believe anyone has ID'd it. If I ever had one, it went into the trash before I noticed the slant.

Anyone know exact origin of this? A picture? I have no late Ford passenger stuff myself, and all my plates are still with their original bells. Pics of the Merc and Truck plates would likely be useful to those who haven't seen them.

Starters: Though there are minor variations, there are only two basic flavors for '32-53 221-239-255 engines. Both have flat 90 degree mounting surface. All stick ones interchange, and mount using the through bolts with no external flange. The automatic has at least one bolt sticking out on a little flange, and uses completely different drive and gear. There's another one too, '42 Liquamatic, but since there are probably like two of those left on the planet you don't have to worry much...

 

Actually Bruce, there is only one known Liquimatic Lincoln still around, a '42 Continental that used to be in the Tom Monahan collection (Domino's Pizza founder). I saw it back in 1988 at the Dominos headquarters in Ann Arbor, MI. Anyaway back to the subject, I've only bought the catalog from Flathead Jack, and I liked the selection of parts but wasn't real impressed that for $8.00 it was a two year old catalog. A few months later the new one came out, but I would have had to have paid another $8.00 for it. No, I didn't get the new one.

 

There's a '42 Merc Liquamatic in Holland! I corresponded with the guy a couple of years ago. I should have asked how the hell it got there--by '42, Holland was German occupied, and by 1945, Ford had probably hunted down and scrapped every other one...I think someone in the club has a liquamatic V8 engine, too.
I have fairly good parts coverage on these things--absolute screaming nightmare of a design! 4 speed standard behinf a liquid coupler, extra synchro in middle of cluster, pile of control junk like a 1970's car...

 

I have a Merc/Lincoln service manual for '49 thru '51 and it states the following:

The Mercury CM starting motor is mounted to the fltwheel housing cover (converter cover on Merc-o-matic transmission units) wth two "through" bolts and supported at the commutator end with a bracket to the oil pan on STANDARD and OVERDRIVE transmission units.

Om Mercury ICM equipped with Merc-o-matic transmission, a cap screw, in addition to the two through bolts, supports the starter motor at the converter housing.

On vehicles equipped with Hydra-Matic (Lincoln) and Merc-o-matic transmissions, the starter motor and bendix drive IS OF DIFFERENT DESIGN and not interchangable with vehicles equipped with standard and overdrive transmissions nor interchangable between Lincoln and Mercury models.

So if the original starter came off of a Fordo-o-matic or Merc-o-matic transmission it prolly won't fit the mounting in this case for the C-4.

Thanks again to 286 Merc and Bruce for the enlightment.