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FLATHEAD GUYS HELP PLEASE water coming out exhaust

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Mr.Musico, Nov 13, 2013.

  1. Mr.Musico
    Joined: Jan 7, 2007
    Posts: 1,581

    Mr.Musico
    Member
    from SoCal

    Mentioned this in another thread hoping some flathead guys might help. Started a engine that sat for many years- ran good but noticed lots of water coming from center exhaust port- torqued heads cold and hot in stages- still had a problem.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5eJW8BI6Zg

    Pulled the heads hoping for a bad head gasket- it was a copper gasket and seemed to be ok- not noticeable signs it was bad. There is a little water in the oil.

    Bad block? say it aint so :confused:

    Anything else to check?
     

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  2. Mr.Musico
    Joined: Jan 7, 2007
    Posts: 1,581

    Mr.Musico
    Member
    from SoCal

    could this be a crack (blue area inside with a cracked shaped like a x)?
     

    Attached Files:

  3. I think it may be the center head stud judging by the amount of corrosion on it. Try removing the stud and reinstalling it with thread sealer after cleaning it thoroughly.

    Also, spray the head gasket with copper gasket paint and let dry before installation.

    I torque my heads starting at 20 ft-lbs and then up to 45 ft-lbs in 5 ft-lb increments. Never had one leak yet.


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  4. Mart
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,253

    Mart
    Member

    There was a guy on fordbarn recently where he had a similar problem. Someone had drilled out a head stud and drilled through the exhaust port. He was able to drill and tap the hole 1/16"NPT and screw in a plug.

    Can't say if that is what has happened in your case but it might be worth looking.

    If that little x is a crack, you might be able to drill and tap and fit a plug. But tbh I can't imagine what would have caused such a crack.

    Mart.
     

  5. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,853

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    I'd expect that a serious head gasket leak would wash your pistons and head, but your photos don't show that. I'd also expect steam in the exhaust and you don't mention that.

    With the engine assembled (which yours obviously isn't) pull a sparkplug on each of those two cylinders (separately) and run the engine to see if there is water/steam coming out of the plug hole. At least this will narrow down your investigation to one cylinder.

    It could be a cracked exhaust runner after the valve, meaning that the water is not going in the combustion chamber. A pressure test would tell you for sure.
     
  6. 29AVEE8
    Joined: Jun 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,384

    29AVEE8
    Member

    I am a little confused by your description of the problem. Do you have water leaking out or around the stud or do you really have water coming out the exhaust into the header?
     
  7. aonemarine
    Joined: Nov 2, 2013
    Posts: 501

    aonemarine
    Member
    from Delaware

    Hate to say it, but that does look like it may be a crack. Try cleaning it up some and see if you can get a better look at it. Know any one that has pressure test plate? Or try putting some air in the exhaust port and spray soapy water on the potential crack.
     
  8. aonemarine
    Joined: Nov 2, 2013
    Posts: 501

    aonemarine
    Member
    from Delaware

    Ya know, now I'm wondering. Do the exhaust manifold bolts go into a cooling passage? I'll have to look when I get home.
     
  9. Mr.Musico
    Joined: Jan 7, 2007
    Posts: 1,581

    Mr.Musico
    Member
    from SoCal

    yes water running out of the header.
     
  10. aonemarine
    Joined: Nov 2, 2013
    Posts: 501

    aonemarine
    Member
    from Delaware

    What am I looking at, by the exhaust valve, cyl #2. Looks like something there between the valve and cylinder.
    Edit
    Sorry, looking from wrong end of block, its the 3rd cyl from the front.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2013
  11. Mr.Musico
    Joined: Jan 7, 2007
    Posts: 1,581

    Mr.Musico
    Member
    from SoCal

    thanks for the ideas...any others?
     
  12. aonemarine
    Joined: Nov 2, 2013
    Posts: 501

    aonemarine
    Member
    from Delaware

    Looking for a happy answer?? There probably isn't one. You need to pressure test if you can't physically see where its coming from. In the one photo between the exhaust valve and cylinder looks like a crack, this is a common area in these blocks. Hard to say for sure, I'm just trying to tell from a picture. If you have some thick rubber and a nice solid piece of good flat maple you can make up a pressure test plate for the top of the block.
    Did you try cleaning up any of the suspect areas yet?
     
  13. primerhotrod
    Joined: Feb 2, 2013
    Posts: 98

    primerhotrod
    BANNED
    from ILLINOIS

    That X looks interesting. The studs very well could be seeping.
     
  14. Mart
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,253

    Mart
    Member

    Do you have a much bigger version of the pic of the suspected crack? the more I look at it the more I can sort of see something. Taking into account the local discolouration and removal of the scale buildup locally, I am thinking that is the problem. I don't know how I would go about fixing that if it is a crack, but I did have some success using some special arc welding rods* recently on a pan rail crack.

    * High nickel cast iron rods.

    Hope you do find the reason for the leak and a way to fix it.

    Mart.
     
  15. Mr.Musico
    Joined: Jan 7, 2007
    Posts: 1,581

    Mr.Musico
    Member
    from SoCal

    cleaned that area off, no crack there. gonna try to pressurize and see if i can pinpoint where its coming from

    anyone else have an idea?- if someone has seen this before and can help me narrow down where to look 1st it would be appreciated
     
  16. aonemarine
    Joined: Nov 2, 2013
    Posts: 501

    aonemarine
    Member
    from Delaware

    Does this engine have hardened seats installed? Pull the exhaust valves and have a look around the seat area. Its hard to say where your crack could be, pressure testing is you best option.
     
  17. Mr.Musico
    Joined: Jan 7, 2007
    Posts: 1,581

    Mr.Musico
    Member
    from SoCal

    will try that also
     
  18. Mr.Musico
    Joined: Jan 7, 2007
    Posts: 1,581

    Mr.Musico
    Member
    from SoCal

    not sure, engine was rebuilt at some point in its life as it has .40 pistons- but the rebuild was done at least 20+ years ago- b4 I found it.

    Will presurize- was thinking of doing it with header off and possibly intake off (if this will work) to get a better look at where water is coming from
     
  19. hellrod666
    Joined: Sep 1, 2008
    Posts: 26

    hellrod666
    Member
    from seattle wa

    You can pressure test and magnaflux and see if you can find the problem. It can be cracks or the head or block may not be flat. If all else fails you can do as I did on one old engine. I put a new head gasket on it. Then used a can of block seal on it. It worked really well. I ran that engine every day for 3 years with no more problems. I use the block seal that doesn't have to be drained out. I know it seems like the easy way out, but it got me by till I was able to build a new engine. When you build a new engine, be sure to test the block and the heads. Seems like every block out there has something wrong with it. People forget that the heads have leak problems too. I even had a new one leak a year or so ago in the shop.
     
  20. aonemarine
    Joined: Nov 2, 2013
    Posts: 501

    aonemarine
    Member
    from Delaware

    My block is at the shop right now being mag-ed, But im pretty certain you can pressur test with intake off, They show it this way in the flathead builders book along with a bunch of areas for cracks.
    Watch this video...http://youtu.be/Y7dDZgflHKw
    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Y7dDZgflHKw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  21. Mart
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,253

    Mart
    Member

    Each side of the block is self contained with respect to the water system. You can pressurise each side independently for testing. The inlet can be left off. In use the two sides mix within the radiator.

    Mart.
     
  22. aonemarine
    Joined: Nov 2, 2013
    Posts: 501

    aonemarine
    Member
    from Delaware

    Hopefully mine gets a clean bill of health, but if it doesnt im ready for it...
    [​IMG]
     
  23. ronnieroadster
    Joined: Sep 9, 2004
    Posts: 790

    ronnieroadster
    Member

    Speedway Motors sells a nice presure testing kit for the flathead block. The plate in the kit covers the water holes in the deck its open around the valves and piston so you can see where the actual leak is located.
     
  24. aonemarine
    Joined: Nov 2, 2013
    Posts: 501

    aonemarine
    Member
    from Delaware

    Yes but thier expensive, ive made pressure test plates out of wood with a 1/4" thick piece of rubber glued to them and it works out just fine, just use big washers to spread the bolt load. Quick cheap and easy....
     
  25. Mr.Musico
    Joined: Jan 7, 2007
    Posts: 1,581

    Mr.Musico
    Member
    from SoCal

    Before tearing into it I wanted to rule out the obvious if at all possible, today I took of the head on the other side (non water leak side) and found the WRONG head gasket, it was for a later model head....could this have blocked a proper passage and diverted water to somewhere else?

    Is it a stretch?

    I know Im trying to put a possitive spin on this, when I know its most likely not good news :)
     
  26. aonemarine
    Joined: Nov 2, 2013
    Posts: 501

    aonemarine
    Member
    from Delaware

    I dont think it would cause water out the exhaust, but could cause other problems like improper flow thru the heads and hot spots. I got some bad news on my block yesterday, so im block hunting as well.
    [​IMG]
     
  27. Mr.Musico
    Joined: Jan 7, 2007
    Posts: 1,581

    Mr.Musico
    Member
    from SoCal

    Happy to report, took old copper head gasket off (including one side that was the wrong gasket), and replaced with the "new style". And put Bars Block sealer. NO MORE LEAKS! everything is GOOD in the world.
     
  28. aonemarine
    Joined: Nov 2, 2013
    Posts: 501

    aonemarine
    Member
    from Delaware

    LOL thats good news, Cross fingers it stays that way. :eek:
     

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