Looking @ this conversion kinda makes me think about 2 different gens that I have, The one on my 21 deuce roadster & the one on my 24 stud 34 3W. When I bought the 32, it was suppossed to be a Killer Restored chassis. Blue ribbon deal & all. as I started to drive it & put some miles under it, things started to happen with the charging system. It has only worked part of the time that I have had it. I have had the armature fry on it after a "new: cut off had been installed, purchased another & the same thing happened after I drove it for awhile with again another replacement cut out switch after a complete rebuild. I finally just disconnected it from the system & just decided to utilize it as an idler pulley for the water pumps & fan. This is how it remains, There is probably $400.00 tied up in a 32 pole type generator,that is basically unusable. How can I convert thiis one BTW, it still has the 32 style distributor/coil asy which would immediately die if I was to put 12volts to the coil.=Melted Rotor syndrome. Now when bought my barn fresh 34 3W ten years ago, it too was a 6 volt car. I drove it like that for about 2-3months. A neighbor that did rod work said just convert the sucker to 12 volts.We used the fields from a 56-64 and used the armature from the 39-40 eng that the car came with. Veh to this day has remained positive ground,but 12v. It works great & I haven't really had any trouble with that since. The intake on the deuce is a 32 only item, so that means that I'd have to swap it out for a later version in order to utilize a 33 on up style slide up mount type gen. Anybody have any thoughts on how I could retain this original 32 unit without compromising my pocket any further Thanks, Kevin
On the '32, quit buying new cutouts--the new ones are garbage!! Go get several old ones, get the lids off, and find one with saveable points... There are a couple of current regulating conversions, each made by several different people...one type has the electronics hidden under the band that covers the brush slots, the other lives inside a cutout. Some are available that regulate the gen up to 12 volts with rather low amps. On the fan conversion for 2 brush ones, starting point is in 1937... You want the pulley and the front cover with a faintly cast-in "78", used from 1937--39 on various applications. Pulley hole is nearly right, like a thousandth under '42-8...this pulley uses a keyway and nut. 79 parts (commercial) probably will also work, I think they probably are virtually the same except for mounting heights, and there are some 60HP versions that might also work. A completely different way is an 01W pulley, which is some kind of big truck '40--?, which has the screw on pulley like '42-8 and I think works with the late front cover.
First, this is an excellent thread, wonderful tech. I see this is an older post so I PMed the following to Tommy (as it's his thread) as a belated response to the growler question earlier. I know it's 'late' and I expect someone has already mentioned this (I saw a response, but wasn't very detailed) about a growler, but FWIW here's what I know. It is primarily an electromagnet. It utilises AC, so it growls, any time the magnet is 'ON'. To check for a short between the windings (all this stuff is specific to the armature) you place a ferrous metal strip (usually an old hack saw blade) in line with the armature on the iron part that holds the windings. You slowly rotate the armature in the machine while holding the hack saw blade stationary (relative to the machine) with light pressure from your hand. If there is a short between the windings it generates a 'magnetic flux bubble' which will cause the blade to vibrate with some authority (the whole growler vibrates in tune with the growl, but it's blatantly different). There are two other tests a growler is capable of (at least the ones I have seen). One is to check the armature for an open in the windings. It uses a voltmeter and a probe with two contacts (again on the ones I have seen) you use the probe to test two adjacent segments on the commutator and with the magnet on you should get an induced voltage. The other test is to check for a short to ground (aka Copper to Iron test) in the armature windings. It doesn't involve the magnet, it uses a higher voltage to test between the commutator and the armature shaft. The ones I have used have two probes, and a light. If you place one probe to Copper and the other to any iron on the armature and get the light to come on (even slightly) that's bad. It means there is a short to ground (even if only a partial). That's all I know about growlers. Probably not real useful, but . Hope it helps. If it matters, I learned this in A&P school (Aircraft Mechanic) we had a growler and several armatures, at least one with each failure mentioned above. I haven't messed with it much since, as I would send an aircraft generator or starter (the armatures test the same) to an overhaul facility if it needed anything more than brushes (they usually do by the time I see them). It covers my butt legally, if they say it's good, since they have all the spiffy tools and a piece of paper from the feds saying they know more about it than I do.
OK I have a very simple question that I need to know. Are all voltage regulator for 12 volt systems the same ? I have a 1956 Imperial 12 volt generator that I need a voltage regulator for but dont know what one I need. I have looked for them on Ebay but the Imperial ones seem like they are way more than others? Is this just like parts for Corvettes more expensive than a Nova even though the parts are the same? Anyone?
Probably not. The Imperial probably had a lot of electric do dads like windows and such. Most likely it ran a higher amp generator and the VR to match than a 56 Dodge or even a 56 Newport. Get the right VR for the generator that you have and wire it according to the Imperial manual.
Oh I forgot to say that its not going back in an imperial, its going on a 276 hemi and dropped into a 1929 Whippet. After I posted here I checked out the web and it said that you can run a lower amperage voltage regulator even if the generator was in a high amperage drawn car. I dont think I will be drawing too many amps but I know it all starts to add up. I will be running headlights, parking lights, heater fan, wipers maybe sometimes, and the worst problem I see is that there is no room to run a mechanical fan so it will need an electric fan.
Thanks for answering the question I hadn't asked yet. I knew this was the place to find that kind of imfo. I'm a newbie here but I'm impressed with the collective brain trust. great thread thanks again
No, they are not. There are two basic generator circuits - the early Ford (I think called D type) use a field coil that is grounded. The other style (called A type) does not ground the field coil and runs the wires through the VR.
Great thread! Couple of questions. Any reason why you couldn't run a fusible link in that ammeter circuit to protect from frying the car if that lead shorted to the body or got grounded in some way? And couldn't you just replace the ammeter gauge with a voltmeter? And lastly what guage wiring is recommended for the charging control circuits when converting to twelve volt or doesn't it matter?
You can run a fusible link if you like. You can run a voltmeter if you like. 6V wiring is heavier gauge than 12V, so flows more current.
Absolutely I run a fuseable link. People like to blame the ammeter for melt downs but in my experience the ammeter is a victim of a short somewhere else in the system that a simple cheap fuseable link would protect against. The young guys think alternators are so much better than generators but I've had more failures with alternators including a major melt down that induced my use of fuseable links than I have had with generators. I've had generators quit charging but my alternator damn near burned my truck down. No I don't think generators are better but they do get a bad rap. The charging system doesn't know what engine is turning the generator. Always match the VR to the generator or alternator that you are using. There were different amperage charging systems for different usages some times on the same make and model. When AC first became an option it was common for them to have a heavier charging system. Think of it as a charging system. Match the parts in that charging system whether it's a generator or an internal or external regulated alternator system.
great post i dealing with right now. can i still use my 46-46 59ab front housing i still want my front pully on my gen with the fat belt? billy
I think so but since I've never tried it, I can't say for sure. If the 12V case doesn't fit the 46 ends, You can take the field windings out of the 12V case and install them in the 6V case. Getting the coil mounting screws out of the case can be tough. The old generator shops had a special fixture for this that prevented the screwdriver blade from slipping out of the slot. They have been in there for over 60 years. There usually is something like a pin or a bump that only lets it go together one way so that the terminals will always be in the correct place when it is assembled. Orient the terminals where you want them. You might have to drill a hole or recess in the 12V case for the locator pin or bump that is in the end plate. That's important since the generator mount is the front bearing plate. You want the terminals to be oriented the same way that Henry had them.
Billy - The 46 front mount and pulley will go right on to a 57-64 Ford 12V generator. My dad has done several that way. He always says it's a 10 minute job. Neal
Thanks for the info Tommy. I thought I purchased a 56'-64' generator at a show this weekend. The shaft end is smaller and fits into a bearing instead of a bushing. Have I picked the wrong generator? Thanks, John
I don't know but it probably doesn't matter if it is indeed a Ford generator. Reread the start of this thread. The only thing that you use from the 12V Ford generator is the body with it's field windings. The 12V armature and end plates don't get reused. I never compared the 12v and 6V armatures. I don't have any secret way to identify a Ford generator. Mine came from a 64 6 cyl Fairlane that my buddy made into a Thunderbolt clone...a freebee. It's easy to tell a GM stepped body 12V gen.
The only problem is I can not use the original 2 brush end plate. Can I use the 12volt end plate. If not I guess I could grind off the mounting tabs/brackets and use the newer one and not convert the 6volt to 12volt. Thanks again, John
Hey Tommy, I have just done this conversion of the weekend. Finally replaced my alt with a converted generator. Started the car- the Ampmeter is showing charge and the generator warning light is going out as teh revs increase. When I came to source a Voltage Regulator locally I could only find a Scott Drake 1963-64 15 Volt, 30 AMP, unit. System seems to be working now- do I need to import a 12v regulator though? What effect will running this 15v unit have? Cheers Adam F
Thats exactly what i do.. I remove the end plates on the early ford 12 volt generators and grind the mounting tabs. No other change is needed it has the same diameter housing.
Personally, I would. I've never had any luck mixing and matching unrelated parts. It always bites me in the ass. I would not be surprized that with the right VR your idiot light will be off at idle as it should be. If the idiot light is on then the battery is discharging. That's not normal for a healthy generator system. It won't be putting out to the max but it still should be charging enough to put out the light. I have had old cars that the idiot light would flicker at night with the lights on at idle but as soon as you pick the idle up the light goes out. If the ammeter is showing a charge the light should be out. If I'm using a Ford gen. I use a Ford VR GM gen....Gm VR and just as important is to polarize your charging system using the procedures for the gen make that you are using. All generators are NOT the same. Treat it as a system. Match the VR to the gen that you have chosen to use. As far as a generator not recharging a battery as fast as an alternator, a healthy gen system will bring a healthy battery back to fully charged after starting the engine in seconds. If you have to crank and crank to get it to start then you can run down the battery and an alternator will probably bring it back sooner but I say fix the car so that it will start as it was supposed to start.
You will need a 12V Ford voltage regulator wired as this crude diagram shows. Tell the pimply parts counter kid it's for a 1964 Ford Failane, 6 cyl, no A/C, P/S or cruise control. I'm running a 8ba 12 volt conversion generator...will this VR mentioned above work for me?
The three brush Ford generator dimensions used from 1932 to 1938 aren't compatible with the later model two brush field housings. The diameter is different and the bolt holes are all different. The amperage output from the 32/33 models were only 12.5 amps and in most cases only got up to 30 amps until the flat head was out of production. Here is another option that uses some of the original parts and improves the output http://www.ejwhitneyco.com/automotive.html
I was talking to one of our local electrical suppliers here in Oklahoma about buying a set of windings for the conversion on a flatty gen and he said that would work but the "pulse signal" would be incorrect because of the armature windings not matching? This causes the Voltage Regulator to fry early! He said the problem only occurs on long drives with higher amp loads. Then he said his shop does the complete rebuild (with warranty) conversion that puts out 45 amp using your core for $125.00 and a voltage regulator built in the USA was $75.00, not bad, $200.00 for a wrrty and a shop that is local, so that is the way we are going. He also said they carry in stock gear reduction starters for Nailheads, flatties, Hemis, etc. If you need his services, call Dewey at C & P Electrical at 405-799-2083.
Pulse signal? I think your local shop is selling you a conversion. The VR only cares about current and voltage - not "pulse signal" - bunk.
http://www.funprojects.com/products/10505r.cfm this solid state "cut-out" can be used with any 3-brush generator to convert to 12v charging system. I used one for a while and it was working ok. The third brush can be adjusted to provide the desired output. Read the directions on the page. Of course you need a 3-brush generator in healthy shape else it will not work properly. The guy from the website is very knowledgable and helpful (when I dealt with him some years back...)
"pulse signal"...I am way out of my electrical depth, but there MY be a sort of phasing issue involving the number of commutator segments and alignment of same to the brushes as the windings pass one another...why case and ends are clocked by dowels, perhaps. That being said...I read something on a board about telling 6 an 12 V Ford armatures apart by commutator segment numbers; I ordered one of each from CG and could not find any difference in that or in any vivible characteristic of the actual windings.
The difference in commutator segments is one of the reasons you can't get the same current out of a converted 6V generator as you can a true 12V generator...but it won't hurt anything and the VR doesn't care.
Im thinking of attempting a 12V conversion on a 6V Flathead Generator. This has been a great thread and a big help. The one I have has been sitting for a long time and needs a complete rebuild. 1. Is this the rebuild "Kit" that I need? Or am I better off sending it to a shop to have converted. If so, what shop do you recommend. http://www.who-sells-it.com/cy/denn...d-car-edsel-parts-15624/page-41-fullsize.html
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