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Technical Flathead 60 hp transmission guts in 39 case??

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by MR K., Mar 7, 2014.

  1. MR K.
    Joined: Aug 20, 2009
    Posts: 578

    MR K.
    Member

    an any one school me on 30"s transmissions?
    I have a trans off a 60 hp motor. I know this because he housing is a bit different where the starter goes. I could bolt it up to a later flathead if I cut the casting. But dont want my work looking like I hacked it. Can i use those guts in a 39 case?
     
  2. Rem
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,256

    Rem
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  3. pasadenahotrod
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 11,776

    pasadenahotrod
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    from Texas

    The V8-60 ransmssion is a unique beast. Does not sharegears or much else with the larger V8-85/100 boxes.
     
  4. b-bob
    Joined: Nov 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,093

    b-bob
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    But does the 60 trans inter-change with the other trans?
     
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  5. Greg in Jax
    Joined: Jun 27, 2010
    Posts: 205

    Greg in Jax
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    If the 60hp transmission that you have is the commercial version or the late, side-shift 1940 transmission then the answer is yes. If it is the earlier 60hp passenger car transmission then the answer is absolutely no. The commercial/1940 transmission is interchangeable (internals as a set) with the 85hp 1939. There is a difference in 1st gear gearing, with the 60hp box having a much lower first gear to try to give 60hp-powered cars a jump off the line, but the complete gearset from one box will fit the other. If you want to do this and want to know what the gearing is let me know and I will go out in the garage and count teeth on the input shaft gear. Greg
     
  6. Greg in Jax
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    I was certain but I went out and counted anyway. 14 teeth on the 1940 side-shift 60hp trans input shaft, and that gearset was put into a late 85hp case. Once more, the smaller 60hp trans is a completely different box. Nothing will fit the 85hp case, it even has a smaller throwout bearing.
     
  7. Greg in Jax
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    b-bob, did not see your question. The large 60hp box will interchange, but you have to cut the bell to clear the starter drive on the 85hp engine, as Mr. K said in the initial post. Same with an 85hp trans mounted to a 60. This photo is an 85hp trans cut to clear the starter drive of a 60, with 60hp gears from a side-shift 1940 trans in an earler 85hp case to give me a top-shift trans.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
  8. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,683

    Bruce Lancaster
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    The trans on a 221 or 239 (the big one, 1940 or the commercial topshift) requires only a small notch to clear the starter can on the oil pan. Using the big engine trans on a 60 is actually much harder...you need a fairly big hole in the casting and then something to enclose the Bendix, since the 60 starter is way inboard. The regular passenger car 60, as pointed out, has nothing of any use right back through the U-joint. Apparently it was even too tiny for the 60, as for many years places like JC Whitney sold converted 85 transmissions as 60 replacements.
    Most of the big type 60 trans got the wide ratio 29 tooth cluster based gear set to jack up the low speed torque a bit.
     
  9. Greg in Jax
    Joined: Jun 27, 2010
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    Greg in Jax
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    Thanks, Bruce, you are always there with the facts. The trans in my photo ended up with a late 1940's beer can from a Miami brewery to cover the starter drive, which fit just fine.
     
  10. MR K.
    Joined: Aug 20, 2009
    Posts: 578

    MR K.
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    DAM GOOD INFO GUYS! Thanks!
     
  11. MR K.
    Joined: Aug 20, 2009
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    MR K.
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    what I have is a top shifter ( i think out of a car)
     
  12. Greg in Jax
    Joined: Jun 27, 2010
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    Greg in Jax
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    Post a photo. Only way to know what you have.
     
  13. MR K.
    Joined: Aug 20, 2009
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    MR K.
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    ok, i will tonight.
    Thanks!
     
  14. MR K.
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    MR K.
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    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     

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  15. MR K.
    Joined: Aug 20, 2009
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    MR K.
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    These are the pics
    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     

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  16. Greg in Jax
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    Greg in Jax
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    You have the 60hp commercial transmission, so the complete internals will swap over into a '39 case with no problems. The 60hp passenger car transmission is much smaller and has a four-bolt top cover. The gearing will be lower in first, but otherwise everything is the same. As Bruce pointed out in his post, it is also very easy to mount this transmission as is on an 85hp engine, just a minor cutout needed to clear the starter drive. Might be the best way to go, easiest certainly. Greg
     
  17. MR K.
    Joined: Aug 20, 2009
    Posts: 578

    MR K.
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    Thanks guys. Time to break out the die grinder and modify that housing. So what year is this off of??

    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  18. b-bob
    Joined: Nov 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,093

    b-bob
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    I was told my trans. came off a '37,.... 60 hp motor. But it has the 6 bolt top and has only a slight cut out on the bell. Maybe he was wrong.?
     
  19. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,181

    blowby
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    from Nicasio Ca

    This trans came out from behind my 60 hp. No idea what it is, has open drive shaft tail end. Stock?
     

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  20. MR K.
    Joined: Aug 20, 2009
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    MR K.
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    Yours is open drive?? Hummmm ???
    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  21. b-bob
    Joined: Nov 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,093

    b-bob
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    Here are a couple pics of my trans. I was told 1937 ..60 hp, but it doesn't look like the others posted, maybe it is just a normal V8 trans??

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Greg in Jax
    Joined: Jun 27, 2010
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    Greg in Jax
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    Blowby, It's a 60 case, and if it is open drive it coud have had its internals replaced with flathead pickup internals. As with the 85/commercial 60 gearsets, if you replace the whole thing as a set it is a straight swap. There were no open drive 60hp transmissions, so someone got creative at some time. Nice combo to have, I must say. Greg
     
  23. Greg in Jax
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    b-bob, It is not a 60hp trans. Pull the top off and measure the width of the shifting forks and you can figure out what you have. It is an 85hp type, question is if it is early or late, and the forks will tell the tale. Greg
     
  24. Fortyfordguy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2002
    Posts: 644

    Fortyfordguy
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    Check the serial number on the top front of the case. It will confirm all this. Trans appears to be a normal 85 hp type. Tower appears to be a 33-35 type. Rear support is a 33-34 type. The clutch arm appears to be 33-34. A look inside will confirm type of gears. This is Not a 60hp unit.
     
  25. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 9,851

    Atwater Mike
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    Actually, the tower shape tells the tale. The angle back dates it to '33-'35...'32 had bosses cast in for E-brake, as I recall...not sure.
    But the case has numbers on the lower rear, which are reliable as to series.

    My green book is on top of my small desk, which is under my large drafting desk. (Buried!) So I operate from memory...LOL (message to self: DIG OUT that green book!)

    Consequently, Bruce Lancaster is a most useful source! (thanks, Bruce)
     
  26. b-bob
    Joined: Nov 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,093

    b-bob
    Member

    OK, number on top of housing is 18-295862

    Number on shift tower is 40-7222

    What I want to do with this trans. is bolt it to a Cling's adaptor
    And put it behind the 4-banger in my model A.
    Should still be strong enough for that, as long as it will bolt to the adaptor.
    That's my concern.
     
  27. b-bob
    Joined: Nov 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,093

    b-bob
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    Measured the forks, inside measurements are front 2 7/8s
    rear is 1 3/4

    Hope this conforms what I have.
     
  28. Greg in Jax
    Joined: Jun 27, 2010
    Posts: 205

    Greg in Jax
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    The early style for sure, as the others have said. That will be more than enough for a Model A and will bolt up to the adapter just fine.
     
  29. b-bob
    Joined: Nov 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,093

    b-bob
    Member

    Thanks for the help, now at least I know what I have.
     
  30. b-bob
    Joined: Nov 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,093

    b-bob
    Member

    One more question, does this 33/4 trans still have the same syncos as the newer ones? At least going up threw the gears? I know they don't go back into first, but hopefully on the way up.

    I obviously don't have much experience with these trans., so I appreciate the help.
     

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