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FlatCad Racing's Quest for 200 MPH-a Cadillac Flathead Story!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 38FLATTIE, Aug 22, 2012.

  1. wibble_1979
    Joined: Sep 25, 2012
    Posts: 109

    wibble_1979
    Member

    I think I am reading the same sheet music as 64 DODGE 440. mount injector rails under manifold inside of valley, run wires through the gasket mating surface and have a no return system that has the regulator inline before it enters the block.that way you only run one fuel line into the block. In theory this is feasible depending on internal clearance with your valve train. the 7.3L Ford Super Duty has the wires running through the gasket at the rocker covers and the LS1 style returnless fuel system would work. my cents I will now step off my soap box before some one kicks it out from under me and continue rooting you on from the corner with my dunce cap on backwards Great Thread and good luck.
     
  2. Okay Don . . . I accept the challenge - I will make this the biggest PITA to machine of all time --> this will make the angles on the lifter blocks look EASY! :D

    With that said - I know that nothing scares Don and crew - all their suggestions tend to IMPROVE my designs . . . . damn machinists! :rolleyes:
     
  3. Vergil
    Joined: Dec 10, 2005
    Posts: 785

    Vergil
    Member

  4. wrenchbender
    Joined: Sep 5, 2007
    Posts: 2,075

    wrenchbender
    Member

    Not to discredit your thoughts here but this is a mechanical fuel injection so all we have to do is have a spray nozzle the hard part is getting them in the right spot where they are fairly easy to access unfortunately there is nothing easy on this car lol . Hey dale is there enough room in the girdle below the blower manifold to drill and tap to run the nozzles in from the middle I was looking back at build pics and it looked like it could be done though I know it would be a real pita to get to to change them if needed but it would be way easier than fabricating another complicated part just a thought. The tach is headed your way


    Posted from the TJJ App for iPhone & iPad
     
  5. dragsled
    Joined: May 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,976

    dragsled
    Member
    from Panama IA

    Buddy, we also used nozzels tapped right into the top of the combustion chamber on the heads, the down nozzels ran along the valves uder the valvecovers not sure if this would work right on a flathead motor tho, getting the spray right might turnout to be more trouble than it's worth, Tim Jones
     
  6. wibble_1979
    Joined: Sep 25, 2012
    Posts: 109

    wibble_1979
    Member

    AHH my appologies. I ASSumed in this modern day electronic everything that it would be EFI. like the idea of doing it all mechanical does sound like a PITA to assemble and get to run right. Isnt that the goal here though? go where other's have feared to tread? I'm subscribed and have been for A while I will keep watching Good luck
     
  7. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,446

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Looks like the motor is an 1800 RPM deal, and you've got about a 3:1 ratio on the pulleys. Do you need to spin the pump at 5400 RPM?
     
  8. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    I'm not sure that we need to spin it that fast-I simply configured pulleys that would turn it about the same ratio we were turning the car dry sump. We'll have to experiment on the bench to see.


    First of, a few clarifications- the port injection will only be used for the alcohol/nitro mix. The gas classes will still just run through the hat. When we run alky, there will be something like a 40/60 split between the hat and port injectors.

    The port injectors will be low in the valley-closer to the valley pans than to the top girdle. The lines will all run out towards the front of the engine, to a second distribution block. I've kind of sketched one side in, in paint, but my artistic abilities leave a lot to be desired!
     

    Attached Files:

  9. dragsled
    Joined: May 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,976

    dragsled
    Member
    from Panama IA

    Now it make sense , other than being a pain to change jets it should work fine,,, Tim Jones
     
  10. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,446

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm sure you've considered running the pump from the driveshaft since it is lubing the trans and rear end, so only needs to pump when the car is in motion, but you'd rather use that horsepower to push the car.
     
  11. Flat Roy
    Joined: Nov 23, 2007
    Posts: 448

    Flat Roy
    Member

    Perhaps the fuel nozzles could be mounted in to an aluminum body resembling an EFI injector with on O-ring seal. The nozzle/ injectors could be hard mounted into a fuel rail making an assembly that may be (???) easier to hold in place. Looks like a tough deal no matter what. Especially if your looking to precisely aim the nozzles.
     
  12. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    Well, these were just our initial thoughts.

    We'll go back to putting the ports in the intake. It will be faster anyway, as we won't have to wait on the block.

    I just had a long conversation with John Beck about this .While he thought it would be a little better, power wise, to put them in the ports, he said it's too big of a PITA!

    He said the injectors need to be where we can easily access them, as we'll be pulling and looking at them virtually every run. In addition, he said make sure the distribution block is higher than the nozzles, with no low points in the fuel lines, for alky to sit in. We'll make plenty of power with the alky, and nitro if necessary, anyway.
     
  13. Flat Roy
    Joined: Nov 23, 2007
    Posts: 448

    Flat Roy
    Member

    sounds like a way better plan.
     
  14. Blower Manifold - Quick Update:

    We needed to add 'down port nozzles' into the blower manifold - so we have individual port nozzles for alky and fuel. The primary purpose of adding the down nozzles is to enhance fuel distribution and keep it even. There will still be a certain percentage of fuel going through the Enderle Bug Catcher (the 'hat') - in that it is needed to cool the blower. A poppet valve with a pressure controlling spring will be used between the hat fuel distribution block and the down port distribution block. It will open at a certain PSI and direct a portion of the fuel to the down nozzles. John Beck will once again be our dyno/tune guru to help us get all this crap figured out.

    Chris and I met at his work place for a 'Sunday Job' - so we could use his big vertical mill to precision locate, drill and thread the 1/8 NPT down nozzle ports.

    We had to figure out how to mount/hold the dang manifold - and get the right angles (which we set at 45 degrees). The angles on the nozzles match the angle of the spray deflector shields - so this should direct as much fuel spray as possible down the ports.

    Anyway - now it is now onto making the lines and setting up the lower distribution block:

    DownNozzles1.jpg

    DownNozzles2.jpg

    DownNozzles3.jpg

    DownNozzles4.jpg
     
  15. Flat Roy
    Joined: Nov 23, 2007
    Posts: 448

    Flat Roy
    Member

    That worked out pretty nice Dale!
     
  16. Locomotive Breath
    Joined: Feb 1, 2007
    Posts: 711

    Locomotive Breath
    Member
    from Texas

    Those port nozzles should work well and they will make a big difference.
     
  17. Nice Job Dale and the welding on the manifold looks beautiful too...............
     
  18. fenderless
    Joined: Mar 31, 2006
    Posts: 1,286

    fenderless
    Member
    from Norway

    Looking good Dale:)


    Kjell

    .................................
    Taildragger&fenderless
     
  19. fenderless
    Joined: Mar 31, 2006
    Posts: 1,286

    fenderless
    Member
    from Norway

    What's the latest guys?;)

    Hungry for more Flatcad suff!!:)
    Must have some positive stuff to feed my brain, besides more snow and freezing tepppmpratures...!

    Kjell

    ..................................
    Taildragger& fenderless
     
  20. WZ JUNK
    Joined: Apr 20, 2001
    Posts: 1,708

    WZ JUNK
    Member
    from Neosho, MO

    I am moving the flat cad to my shop tomorrow. I will be working on the aero modifications. This is the second phase. I have been working on the scoop some while the car is away. The materials are here to build the aero front and the spoiler. I have lots of measuring, cutting and fabricating to do.

    John
     
  21. pops29
    Joined: Jun 4, 2007
    Posts: 512

    pops29
    Member
    from turlock ca

    The block should be back in my hands from Kenny Boyd's shop this week,, block fill, line bore and valve grind complete. I will start fitting up the test lifters and lifter blocks to a mock cam and checking valve lengths ,, then if all ok I will start machining the real deal parts. I should have pics this weekend
     
  22. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    We now interrupt today's programming for a little Tee teaser....:D
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 20, 2013
  23. Way too kool Buddy,
    whats the dyno date any thoughts?????
     
  24. joemac05
    Joined: Jul 29, 2006
    Posts: 314

    joemac05
    Member

    If you are selling them put me on the list please.. XL :D
     
  25. WZ JUNK
    Joined: Apr 20, 2001
    Posts: 1,708

    WZ JUNK
    Member
    from Neosho, MO

    Good looking shirt. I wish the car looked that good right now.

    I fixed the wheel air leak this morning and set the toe alignment. I also trimed off the back of the scoop so that it is legal now.

    John
     
  26. bobadame
    Joined: Jan 20, 2009
    Posts: 174

    bobadame
    Member


    I've wondered why people don't use streamlined tubing instead of round tubing. At the very least why not put a streamlined cover over the round tubing. Drag on round tube is nearly the same as square tube.
     
  27. WZ JUNK
    Joined: Apr 20, 2001
    Posts: 1,708

    WZ JUNK
    Member
    from Neosho, MO

    I've wondered why people don't use streamlined tubing instead of round tubing. At the very least why not put a streamlined cover over the round tubing. Drag on round tube is nearly the same as square tube.[/QUOTE]

    This is very important and it is commonly overlooked. Some designs have modified the tie rod and drag link so that the are inline with the axle. Then the whole mess could be covered with a fairing. A small thing like this can add up at high speeds. There is a significant difference in the top speed of a helicopter with and without the fairings on the struts to the landing gear which is a similar application.

    John
     
  28. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    Carl, I'll give you a call in the next day or two!

    They'll be going up for sale in a day or two, so more info then!

    Great job, John! I have no doubt that the work you're doing will far surpass the drawing! Having better aero actually excites me more than the added HP!
     
  29. pregrid
    Joined: Jan 8, 2009
    Posts: 176

    pregrid
    Member

    I'm def in for a t-shirt or two. Not to be picky but I don't see a rear spoiler on the tee art. Is it gonna be smaller than the prototype? Or did I miss something?
     

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