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FLATCAD RACING Bonneville 2011 Build

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 38FLATTIE, Jul 27, 2010.

  1. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

  2. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The FlatCad had gone international! Lol![/FONT]

    The first magazine was sent from Norway, by my buddy Kjell- Thanks Kjell!

    The second was sent from OZ, by my buddy Wayne-Thanks Wayne!

    Look Tim- you're pickup made it too!
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Yeah, one of my Sweedish friends sent me that mag. I've also been told that my truck is in the Cruzin' mag. ;)
     
  4. fenderless
    Joined: Mar 31, 2006
    Posts: 1,286

    fenderless
    Member
    from Norway

    Sorry Tim, this was my only issue, but i will try to get more anyone whant's:)!

    K

    ................................
    Taildragger&fenderless
     
  5. Hey Kjell . . . I'd love a copy . . . and I'll pay for the cost/shipping as well! Thanks!
     
  6. fenderless
    Joined: Mar 31, 2006
    Posts: 1,286

    fenderless
    Member
    from Norway

    Yes i will get more magz my friend:) Dale if it's Ok i'll send some over in January/February, as my ount will be here around that time?
    Then the shipping cost will be on me from AR to you:)
    We might get to have a beer in 2013!?:)

    Kjell

    ................................
    Taildragger&fenderless
     
  7. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    I've just returned from 5 days In California, on a quest for more HP in the flathead- wow, did I ever get my arse kicked! More on that later!

    Tuesday morning, I met Rex Schimmer for breakfast, then we headed over to Dema Elgin's, and spoke with him about a cam. Rex, thanks for taking the time to meet with me-it was good to see you again!

    From Dema's I headed down to Rich Fox's, to pick up a tranny he loaned me. Always good to see you Rich!

    Then, on to Don's (Pops29) place, where I picked up the test chambers he cut, so that I could modify them, instead of our real heads. Don's always on top of this stuff!

    Tuesday night I was in Arroyo Grande, having supper with Garry Odbert. Garry was an immense help on everything- he even had his test block there, so we could compare the porting to his. Garry runs the Retarded Spark Special, a record setting Caddy flathead powered roadster. Thanks Garry!

    Wednesday morning, Garry and I headed over to Race Engine systems, in Santa Maria, owned by Craig Gerfen. Craig was Alan Johnson's top fuel port and flow guy for 8 years, and had also ported Garry's Caddy flathead.

    Here is where the arse kicking started! I'm not going to post every number, test, and dye test we did, but I'll tell you what we found out. Plain and simply put, the ports are too LARGE, therefore velocity suffers, and they don't flow as well as they could. Across the board, we're down about 20 CFM from Garry's. We flowed my engine, then Garry's, back to mine, etc', so the data was current and reliable.

    After, trying everything to increase flow- different valve angles, different valves, different chamber designs, blending the valve guides, etc., to no avail, we tried a different approach. We added material around the short side radius. BAM- an instant 10 CFM gain! We played with this for a while, and determined we need to add material back to the ports, then do another port job. We also played with the relieved block, but that only reinforced my previous belief, and that belief is that it is a waste of time.

    So, I called Frank Morris with the Salt Cat guys, to find out what epoxy they had used on the Buick engine. Frank and Doug are great guys! Frank gave me the info I needed, sold me a set of 29" tires, so it was a win/win conversation for me! Thank's Frank!

    So, it can't get any worse, right? Wrong! We flowed the exhaust, and they sure do flow- too damn much! The exhaust out flow the intakes, and that is not good! That correction will come with the cam choice- my guess is we'll end up with a dual pattern cam.

    We did a couple of dye tests, to see what was going on in the chambers. With our current setup, the A/F mixture swirls around in the chamber, running back into itself- basically creates a traffic jam in the chamber. We took the angled ramp out, and straightened that transfer area out. On my engine, we see a small inrease on flow, but a lot better flow pattern out of the dye.

    At the end of the day, the stock block, ported, with a stock 106 CC Caddy head, flows better than the FlatCad head and either of the 2 mods I made, better than Edmunds, and better than Cyclone! The stock head has several complex contours and ramps in it, and flows well- it appears the Caddy engineers really knew their stuff!

    So, to gain the CFM I went to California for, we need to add material to the ports, re-port the block, and change our chamber design. Here are numbers from the #8 cylinder, which is the best flowing cylinder on Garry's car- he flows 200 CFM on the intake side. Our best cylinder was # 3

    ................#8 intake ........#3 intake .........#8 exhaust

    .100 lift .........69 .................64 ....................73

    .200 .............121 ...............118 ...................120

    .300 .............154 ...............157 ...................145

    .400 .............175 ...............173 ...................165

    .500 .............173 ...............180 ...................174

    .525 .............173 ...............179 ...................176


    Here is what is typicle of our worst ports, intake only

    ...................#5 intake ..........#5 intake modified with clay

    .100 lift ............63 ......................60

    .200 ................114 ....................110

    .300 ................150 ....................151

    .400 ................162 ....................169

    .500 ................163 ....................174

    .525 ................163 ....................174

    At this point, I had the knowledge I had came for, and I loaded up and headed back to Don's place to spend the night. After a nice dinner, Don and I retired to the garage, to smoke, joke, and bench race. Don, as usual, it was great seeing you and Dar- many thanks!

    Friday I headed for the house, but stopped in Salt Lake City to visit Kenny Kloth, as I had some specific questions for him about roller lifters and his chamber design. Kenny is a great guy, and a wealth of knowledge, He was very helpful, and informative. I stayed a couple of hours, but easily could have stayed several days, had time permitted.


    So, the HP quest continues!
     

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    Last edited: Oct 27, 2012
  8. dragsled
    Joined: May 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,976

    dragsled
    Member
    from Panama IA

    Looks like you have your homework lined up for this winter Buddy,, Tim Jones
     
  9. Sorry I missed you this trip Buddy, I'll check my email more often from now on. Well, maybe.....
     
  10. ditto!!!
     
  11. Damn Buddy, can't wait till next year and hear what happens on the salt!!!!!
     
  12. Carl, I hope I can get you to come with us next year. ;)
     
  13. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    I've been sitting on this for several weeks, but have been given the green light to release it.

    This is a 4 page article in Street Machine's Hot Rod Annual in Australia.

    <!-- end of AOLMsgPart_2_22411a5f-33c9-4a54-9ac5-67aa6f057ce9 -->
     

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    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
  14. Cool. Looks like Street Machine's Hot Rod Annual, judging by the layout and the fonts, unless there's a hot rod magazine here that I haven't heard of (which is entirely possible!)
     
  15. Wow! It almost sounds like you'd be better off just starting with another good stock block. I'm not really surprised regarding the factory caddy engineereing that went into the engine. After all, cadillac had to uphold their claim to be "the standard of the world" as their advertising claimed. Plus, they'd been tinkering with that same basic design from the late 20s/early 30s until '48.
    I had a box-stock 47 caddy series 62 sedan with the hydro tranny. Was the strongest running flathead I've ever had.
     
  16. dechrome
    Joined: Dec 23, 2004
    Posts: 303

    dechrome
    Member

    Flatcad,
    I just would like to give my impression of this car as seen at Wilmington, Ohio in Sept.
    A friend and I were checking the cars in the pits and came by your car. At first we were impressed with the look and build quality. First glance at the engine, I thought Wow a blown flathead, thinking ford. Then, the heads didn't look right, next the exhaust out the top of the heads. Of course its a cad.
    Your crew was preparing to start this beast. I had to hear it. All close to the car put on ear covers, smart. The women 30 ft away put in ear plugs. They must know something.
    I stood my ground halfway back. The sound of this engine was much the same as a fuel dragster with the exhaust pulses felt in the chest as much as the sound. Thanks for the experience.
    deChrome
     
  17. Hey Buddy and Dale! Nice picture and caption about you guys in Hot Rod this month. I guess they liked Larry's '58 Chevy truck better than mine though. lol
     
  18. Is fun to see the FlatCad in print - cool that the boys from OZ liked it enough to really put some words and pictures into an article like this.

    Not every detail is 100% accurate (just small stuff) - but it is close and definitely does convey the vision, work and efforts that have gone into this. I only wish the article was longer and that we could have included more information about the team our MANY sponsors and every single contributor . . . as the printed words only touch the surface of what folks have really put into our efforts.

    Stay tuned - lots of really cool stuff coming up for 2013 . . . we have a 200 mph quest in the works! :rolleyes:

    Thanks to all!

    B&S
     
  19. Yup, more ink for you guys!!!!!!

    I got a better readable scan posted!
     

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    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
  20. Buddy, Dale, Don, Thommyknocker and all the rest of the crew you all deserve the accolades, a great job on a great piece of machinery............ plus its nice to get a good write up every once in a while. Im sure there are many to follow.................
    we wear our FlatCad shirt with pride!!!!
     
  21. n847
    Joined: Apr 22, 2010
    Posts: 2,714

    n847
    Member

    Just got my latest issue of HRM...I have a strict policy of not looking ahead before reading each and every page. But today I saw flatcad on the cover and I had to skim the whole rag until I found it! Congrats on the Ink!
     
  22. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    It's an experience, isn't it? Glad you made it by, and that you liked it!

    Thanks for the kind words, everyone!
     
  23. Thanks a bunch for noticing and thinking of us! We greatly appreciate all the support from the whole HAMB and LSR community. Though we didn't set out thinking about any 'ink' or press, we do appreciate that various magazines from around the world like our story, our team and the community (you guys) that made this all possible.

    Onto the quest for a 200 mph FlatCad Coupe!
     
  24. keeper
    Joined: Jul 24, 2006
    Posts: 398

    keeper
    Member
    from So Cal

    Wow Buddy that is some crazy news about the heads.

    Are you starting a square one with the heads?

    Did Gary mention how he did on the salt?
     
  25. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    Hi Kevin! No, you did too nice of a job for us to start at square one! We'll just 'tweak' the chamber design, then have them re-coated.

    Gary blew his Procharger, so we'll have to see how he does next year!
     
  26. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    Got home today, and look what showed up!
     

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  27. keeper
    Joined: Jul 24, 2006
    Posts: 398

    keeper
    Member
    from So Cal

    WOW! That is sweet.
     
  28. [​IMG]

    NOW THAT IS WAY TOO COOL!!!!!!!!!.......................
     
  29. dragsled
    Joined: May 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,976

    dragsled
    Member
    from Panama IA

    VERY COOL!!! Congrates to the Flatcad Crew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tim Jones
     
  30. pregrid
    Joined: Jan 8, 2009
    Posts: 176

    pregrid
    Member

    YAY!! Very cool!
     

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