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FLATCAD RACING Bonneville 2011 Build

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 38FLATTIE, Jul 27, 2010.

  1. A Chopped Coupe
    Joined: Mar 2, 2004
    Posts: 1,133

    A Chopped Coupe
    Member

    Buddy and team,

    Haven't been on the HAMB for quite some time but overwhelmed to have my name on the side of the car although I feel not deserving.........................can't wait to be a part of the crew and see this baby scoot down through the first mile marker..................see you all there and one of the first rounds will be on me after tech!...............since Duane is the designated driver.
     
  2. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    Garry just sent me a note, saying he had fired his engine, and broke his cam in!

    Great job Garry!
     

    Attached Files:

  3. I like the exhaust on that one, I'd like to hear it. I'd like to hear yours also, how's the engine coming?
     
  4. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    Tim, I wished my car looked as good as your truck! I seriously don't know if anyone has ever paid for worse body prep and paint work!:eek:

    The engine is coming right along- crank is done and fits the block just fine,the crank, rods and pistons are balanced,block has been bored an decked,and the blower is out being hard anodized so the strip work can be completed.

    Dale has been working on the exhaust, among other things- my bet is we'll see pics soon!
     
  5. Hey FlatCad Crew: We're going like MAD on our end - have had 4 different guys working with me since last Wednesday (evenings and the whole weekend). They're donating whatever time and skill they can . . .

    Basically, whatever they are qualified to do (or can rapidly learn :rolleyes:) - I put them to work. We have a job to get done and we're doing everything we can to do so . . .

    We made a LOT of progress on all fronts over the weekend -- can't say Chris, Curt or I are getting much sleep - we'll worry about that AFTER Bonneville.

    I'll update you all later on - at my 'day job' at the moment . . .

    B&S
     
  6. Damn Dale wish you guys were closer to the left coast, would be glad to help. But am sure you guys will get er there......................
     
  7. ryno
    Joined: Oct 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,470

    ryno
    Member


    you know after reading this last statement you posted, i felt like i needed to maybe shed some light on the facts here.

    mike standley and his brother, wayne, went way above the call of duty on your car. maybe you don't know teh extent, but i do. i think someone that works on a car at a different location then their shop, on weekends, supper late nights, shuts down their body shop to get your "race car" painted with shitty paint and has to go back to redo body work, because the car simply was not ready for mud.mike had to redo the roof/quarters a few times as welding was still being done from the inside, causing bubbles, i think most people would have said enough with this and made wrenchbender and you wait, but mike and wayne have way bigger hearts then most and powered though.

    mike also helped with almost every part of that build, and im going to say it would never be as far along as it was with out his help, you at least owe him a thank you, not a bashing on a forum he doesn't even belong too much less reads. he only got involved with this to help wrenchbender out, NOT to be part of your team.

    like i said, he( mike ) doesn't even have a computer, so he asked me to write something on his behalf.
     
  8. pregrid
    Joined: Jan 8, 2009
    Posts: 176

    pregrid
    Member

  9. jfrolka
    Joined: Oct 4, 2007
    Posts: 897

    jfrolka
    Member

    Dont the background of the deal, but its a fuckin race car.. set a speed record.. chrome don't get ya home, screw the paintjob
     
  10. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    Haha!

    So again- Looks good from 10 ft, and better and 20ft, if you close one eye, and cover the other! Lol! It should look good at 150+ mph....:D

    Updates from BoredandStroked soon!
     
  11. jfrolka
    Joined: Oct 4, 2007
    Posts: 897

    jfrolka
    Member

    that's right!!!
     
  12. strombergs97
    Joined: May 22, 2006
    Posts: 1,888

    strombergs97
    Member
    from California

    At 150+mph who cares about paint, shouldn't be to much left after the salt does it's number on it.."SPEED NOT BEAUTY"...
    Duane..
     
  13. Okay Gang . . . have been so busy on this thing, that I haven't been taking many pictures - just don't have the time.

    Buddy and the MO crew got a lot of things completed on the car, but like anything - there were/are a lot of loose ends to attend to. I've enlisted the help of some local car friends and Chris Daniels has been slogging away with me. We're going as fast as we can - hope we make it and there aren't any major roadblocks we can't overcome . . . none so far.

    Here is just a little verbal update - much more to come when I have time to be a photographer! A LOT has been done since then.

    CAR Stuff:

    1) Dry Sump Tank Plumbing:

    We bought a bunch of hose, fittings, etc. from Jegs to plumb the dry sump tank, pump, etc. Everything is being plumbed for #12 lines - to from the pump. Some guys go bigger on the return line from the tank, given our low oil requirements (3 mains, no rockers, etc) - I think a #12 return should be fine.

    2) Intercooler Tank and LInes:

    After about $1000 on plumbing on about 1/2 of what was needed, I decided to do the intercooler plumbing the "old fashioned" way - with heater hose. I could not find any bulkhead style fittings that would take 3/4 heater hose, so I just hacked up some extra #12 AN fittings:

    BulkheadWaterFittings.JPG

    BulkheadWaterFittings2.JPG

    We tested the water pump - and I made another big fitting out of aluminum to take the 1 3/4 outlet (electric Stewart pump) to 3/4 hose. That will go up to a bulkhead fitting on the firewall.

    3) Battery Box - Brian mounted that

    4) Fuel Pump and Lines: The forward surge tank does not have enough capacity for a run (at least I won't bank on it), so we redid the fuel lines and put a #10 to the rear - and I put a 'loaner' big Barry Grant fuel pumps in the back. This belongs on my engine test stand - but FlatCad needs it for now. :rolleyes: This pump does not require a return line to the tank (if race only) - has an internal bypass. It can handle 750 HP blown - which is more than we'll need, but you have to error on the high side on fuel systems. Chris made a very nice bracket/mount setup - need to run the line to the tank, not a big deal.

    5) Exhaust: Now this is the BITCH of the whole thing as far as fabrication goes! The damn flathead Cadillac has all the intake and exhaust coming out of the top of the motor and that is a very BUSY part of the engine - and it only had 6 bolts to hold the whole mess together from the factory - not good.

    Don was nice enough to make me a big 3/4" steel intake 'girdle plate' - his guy Alan did FANTASTIC machine work as usual. The plate doubles as a sort of Intake and Exhaust flange - everything bolts to it of through it.

    Once I figured all of that out, I then designed a short 'header' that picks up the ports on the ends and under the blower manifold and turns them 90 degrees to another flange above the heads. Having a header flange there will make it possible to pull the heads without pulling the exhaust from the top of the motor. Given how hard it is to tie all this down (intake & exhaust) and get everything to seal, the last thing I want to do is pull the whole intake plate, blower manifold, exhaust manifold, intercooler, blower, injector, etc - just to pull the heads.

    I've completed one of the short and complex top-manifolds, hope to complete the other tomorrow. The second one is always much easier than the first! (Taking a day off tomorrow).

    Zoomies Baby! I briefly pondered making two sets of headers - one 'zoomies' and one with a merge collector. Truth be told, there is such little room in the engine area, that I don't want to even think about equal length headers and collectors -- that dog can fight another day! Also, in blown top-end applications - there is little to be gained by headers and collectors . . . so I'm not doing it this year.

    I'll update you guys on the engine later this evening . . . headed to Fowlers at lunch!

    Here are a couple 'parting shots' of the heads on my setup block with Chris taking a pose.

    B&S
     

    Attached Files:

  14. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,820

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Good call on the headers. At this time having something running is the goal. Plenty of time next winter to buff down the rough edges. http://www.discounthydraulichose.com/ is my source for AN type fittings. Check their prices sometime. See you on the salt.
     
  15. pops29
    Joined: Jun 4, 2007
    Posts: 509

    pops29
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from turlock ca

    Salt Update from SCAT

    7-19-11 The advance team is on the salt and even though the thickness (or i should say thinness) of the salt has made it a real challenge, they have been able to layout two full length (8 mile) combo courses, a 4 mile short course and a 3 mile mini course.
    The salt is smooth and there are no pressure ridges, but at the end of each course is dirt or mud. Good working chutes will be of the utmost importance for this years Speed Week.

    From now on it is up to Mother Nature.
     
  16. Wow Dale that looks spectacular can't wait to see it in person!!! Humm 23 more days but who's counting................
     
  17. strombergs97
    Joined: May 22, 2006
    Posts: 1,888

    strombergs97
    Member
    from California

    Here is a beautiful example of pops29 laser cutting..I built a frame and did it in satin black so the sign would stand out..
    Great job pops29..
    Duane..
    See you all at the "SALT"..
    OH ! When and where will we meet up..
     

    Attached Files:

  18. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    Wow! Don sure does great work, doesn't he?:cool:

    Duane, looks like we'll have a block of rooms together, so we can hook up there.
     
  19. We need a HAMB meet at some point. Have not seen nor heard of one.
     
  20. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    How about at the 'bend in the road', during Salt Talks?
     
  21. Just came in from the shop - thrashing away on FlatCad! I'll just give a brief progress on a few things . . . am tired and need some sleep :cool:

    1) Inside Plumbing: I completed the plumbing for the dry-sump tank as well as the intercooler tank, pump, etc.. I like the way things have worked out.

    a) Dry-Sump Tank: Everything is plumbed with #12 AN lines - to bulkhead fittings on the firewall. There are two return/scavenge lines from the dry-sump pump to the tank and one feed line (suction for pressure) back to the pump. All were plumbed to the lower passenger side of the firewall -- to keep the oil flowing DOWN to the pump and for the shortest possible lines.

    b) SuperChiller Intercooler Plumbing: We're running a BDS/SuperChiller below-blower water intercooler. You typically see these on offshore blown race boats - they use cool water and a sort of 'radiator' in the unit to cool the already compressed air on the outlet side of the blower. The unit is about 4" tall - sits between the blower and the blower manifold. Anyway, Buddy setup a big water tank inside the car (nice job!) - with an electric Stewart water pump that is typically used for 1 3/4 radiator lines. I made an aluminum reducer fitting to take it from 1 3/4 to 3/4 heater hose. I'm plumbing the whole thing with heater hose - why the hell not . . . will save about $500 on plumbing costs alone. It isn't under high pressure . . . is not flammable . . . and if it leaks, the driver gets a nice cool ice-water shower!

    I've added a ball-valve on the return line from the intercooler back to our water tank - so we have control over the flow rate of the water. We may need to slow-down the water flow - so it can cool the charge better . . . so the valve allows us to do that.

    Here are a couple crappy pictures: Inside the car and the bulkhead fittings coming through the firewall:

    WaterAndOil-Inside.JPG

    WaterAndOil-BulkHead.JPG

    2) Tip on Exhaust/Header Flanges:

    The FlatCad has a huge/shared center exhaust plenum/port inside the block. I removed the separator between the exhaust port and the heat riser. It is one big-ass rectangular port. A 3" piece of exhaust tubing - reshaped to fit the port is about the right size.

    Given the very tight confines of the FlatCad intake/exhaust surface, I needed to make a set of exhaust flanges to bolt to the intake plate. Don (my Patron Saint of Steel!) laser cut come 3/8 steel flanges for me.

    One of challenges in making headers is that you need to think about two things:

    a) How are you going to weld the tubes to the flanges? On the outside of the flange? On the inside of the flange? Or Both? I believe the strongest method is to bring the pipe into the flange and weld it on the inside and outside. Is it really necessary for a race car . .. probably not, but I like to design things to last.

    b) How are you going to seal the flange? With a big flange like you see below, it is very difficult to get enough clamping force to seal the big surface. The trick I use is to make a nice weld bead around the inside edge -- it serves two purposes. It welds the tube to the flange and it creates a 'sealing ring' to put more pressure on a small area of the gasket. You'll see my TIG weld on the flange plate - and then I hand filed the bead to become a 'sealing ring'. You'll see a lot of production headers use a similar welding/sealing approach.

    c) Stub In Tubing: Notice that I used just about a 1" piece of 'stub tubing' to weld into the flange. The reason is that this gives me some material to weld the 90 degree bend to. It is almost impossible to get a tight 90 degree 3" tubing bend to magically fit inside that flange. Also, the inner tubing piece acts as a sort of 'reversion dam' - which is a good thing.

    Hey Gang - No Comments on my Welding!: Don't any of you start making bad comments about my TIG welding skills! :eek: This is the first time I've had to weld .050 material to 3/8" plate - makes you think a bit about heat, penetration and the fear of 'blow holes'. Haven't done a lot of welding in a few months - getting back into it takes a bit of time/practice. I'm starting to get back into it - just not as purdy as I'd like :rolleyes:

    I'll post pictures of the complete top-side header tomorrow . . . time for bed.

    B&S
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 20, 2011
  22. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    Dale and 'crew', things are looking great! You guys ROCK!

    Garry doesn't have much time for the Internet, so I told him if he sent me pics, I'd post them. Hey, his is a 'FlatCad' too!

    Here are some shots of the hood and air duct in the making.
     

    Attached Files:

  23. Rough paint makes you go faster, just think of a golf ball.

    Salt talks? Stratigic Arms Limitation Talks?
     
  24. Jon from landracing.coms social/BBQ! I offered to help cook but don't know if they will need me. Be a good place to cross paths. I will make sure I have a HAMB or Jalopyjournal shirt on as usual
     
  25. Drilled
    Joined: May 4, 2008
    Posts: 15

    Drilled
    Member
    from Colorado

    Great talking to you yesterday. See you on the salt.
     
  26. strombergs97
    Joined: May 22, 2006
    Posts: 1,888

    strombergs97
    Member
    from California

    B&S..looks great, nice flanges. Your welds look GREAT..
    You guys are AWESOME..
    See you at the salt..
    Duane..
    alias, designated driver......
     
  27. keeper
    Joined: Jul 24, 2006
    Posts: 396

    keeper
    Member
    from So Cal

    Man each post gets me more fired up. I think my first trip to Bonneville will be one to remember!
     
  28. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado


    Damn, Boss, I never knew you had that Coupe! That's sweet!

    Come join us on the salt- but you have to wear a FlatCad Tee shirt!:D

    I'll bring one for you and Matt. PM me your sizes.
     
  29. Just came in from the shop - one hot son of a bitch today! 100 with humidity that you can't cut with a chain saw! Thankfully I was in the smaller machine tool area - it has air conditioning. Best damn $200 I have EVER spent - just a small window unit.

    I took a day off from my normal job and spent the first few hours working through all the fuel system lines/fittings we still need to order . . . costs us our ass! When you're running #12 and #10 lines the cost of all the fittings goes through the roof. A 90 Degree #12 fitting is over $20. Given that we have 4 systems to plumb - the total cost for fittings, hoses, etc - will approach $2000. Screw me running . . .

    1) Dry sump system
    2) Intercooler water system
    3) Fuel System
    4) Engine cooling system

    We made great progress on multiple fronts today:

    1) Electrical system: We're going super-simple and basic. Hell, we have only three things to power: a) electric water pump for the intercooler - about 10 amps, the big BG electric fuel pump in the rear - about 25 amps and gauge lights . . . that is about it. So we bought a couple 30 amp relay systems for the pumps and a cheap $12.99 fuse board from Jegs - that and a few switches is just about all we need. I believe in simple - especially in electrical stuff.

    Curt made our electrical panel today (chunk of plywood) - mounted everything and wired in the breakers and relays . . . as simple as it gets.

    2) Lead Ballast Weight Rack: Chris worked his ass off this evening in the 100+ degree side of the workshop welding away with his MIG welder - fabricating a two-deep rack to mount all the lead in the trunk area. Chris does nice work - everything is always well designed and functional. Guess that is why he is a product designer.

    3) Exhaust Top Headers: I worked on the second one today - just have about 3 more hours of TIG welding to do. These are complex - should finally post some pictures in the next couple of days. Found a local company to put on a black ceramic coating on the headers -- didn't want to risk shipping things at this late stage via FedX.

    Lots more to do . . . we're doing EVERYTHING we can to complete this car and make the salt. We probably won't know until the 11th hour if it is possible - but we're not slowing down!
     
  30. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,820

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    So your not going to use a main tank - surge tank fuel system?
     

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