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Technical FLAT V8 IN '31 coupe

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by V4F, Aug 3, 2015.

  1. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,114

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    first my apologies for the thread & thanks all for the help . I screwed up the deal but got my banger back .........
    steve
    kzsteve@yahoo.com ................. thank you ... steve
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 15, 2015
  2. I'll be watching cause that's my plan.
     
  3. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,114

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    I hope someone has the time to help .............
     
  4. volvobrynk and lothiandon1940 like this.

  5. sawbuck
    Joined: Oct 14, 2006
    Posts: 1,871

    sawbuck
    Member
    from 06492 ct

    never heard of it ....are you kidding >
     
  6. metaldave
    Joined: Aug 27, 2011
    Posts: 81

    metaldave
    Member
    from michigan

    Get the Vern Tardel book How to Build a Traditional Hot Rod. That is a good start.
     
    volvobrynk likes this.
  7. Had one back in the '50's. Don't remember too many details except I had to park on a hill behind school because the battery was always dead.
     
    volvobrynk likes this.
  8. Elrod
    Joined: Aug 7, 2002
    Posts: 3,561

    Elrod
    Member

    It is absolutely not an engine swap. The model A engine has the brake and clutch pedals mounted to it and the flathead doesn't, so it's also an entire brake system swap, and most likely a steering swap while you are at it.

    I would say it's mandatory to remove the body and get down to a bare frame and a Model A rear axle/torque tube. It may be even easier to build up a second Model A chassis with A/V8 stuff and then just swap your body over and sell your running Model A chassis.

    [​IMG]

    Your Model A rear end and torque tube locates your transmission. The F1 crossmember is flat and easily allows for F1pedals. The pedals get in the way of the battery box, so move the battery box to the passenger side. That's better in my opinion because it's closer to the V8 Starter.

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    The 32 wishbone is the longest and meets the F1 Crossmember, but it's also the most expensive at $500-$600, but the F1 crossmember is way cheaper than the 32 member, so.... savings there.

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    The F1 Crossmember has to be cut off on either side and reshaped, and the stock holes for the F1 pedals have to be welded up and redrilled more inboard to line up with your steering column.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    If you change to a later steering column, due to the more narrow A frame, the flange on the long sector snout (that mounts to the wider later car frames) has to either be shortened/pushed in toward the box, or the frame modified to bulge out to accept the flange. I heavily modified my frame, but wish I had just bought an expensive reworked steering box.

    [​IMG]

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    You have to cut the Model A front crossmember out where the banger front motor mount goes.You have to fabricate feet for the V8 pumps. You have to put V8 truck style pumps on your flathead.

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    You need the short generator mounted fan if you want a mechanical fan and not electric.

    The V8 oil fill tube hits the firewall so you have to reshape that.

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    [​IMG]

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    Headers are a super tight fit around the steering box.



    This project takes a few months to do. Not a day swap by any means. You are reengineering a brand new car that never existed using Ford's parts from 1932 - 1948. That kit offered is pretty nice if you don't care about old stuff. If you want original Ford Technology, it's a ton of modification.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2015
  9. Elrod just gave you the best rundown on the change over I've ever read. He is absolutly correct about just building a new chassis. That's exactly what I did this time. You want photo's here ya go. They have been around the H.A.M.B. for a while now and critisized to death. Opinions are what they are.To answer the most common statement "NO" !! The wheel base is as STOCK, believe it or not. Feel free to ask any Other question you like.
    The Wizzard
    Photos wouldn't follow, I'll try them again.
     

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    volvobrynk and kidcampbell71 like this.
  10. This Computer shit is just plain Weird.
     

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    volvobrynk and Texas Webb like this.
  11. Thank you both for that,Webb.
     
  12. Wish I could rolodex stuff like this. Excellent stuff. There's knowing, and showing. Two things often hard to do together. ( thunderous applause ) Thanks fellas'. Awesome post.
     
  13. Elrod
    Joined: Aug 7, 2002
    Posts: 3,561

    Elrod
    Member

    Love the X-member Pist-n-broke. Good work man!
     
  14. So-cal Tex
    Joined: Aug 24, 2005
    Posts: 1,372

    So-cal Tex
    Member

    HRR 2015 2.jpg Yes, it has been done many times and there are several different ways to go about it. I did my '30 5W coupe about 10 years ago and used a Vern Tardel book and his K-member which is a copy of the '32 K member narrowed, '32 pedals and a '32 wish bone because it is the longest, however I also have the F-1 cross-member and pedals for my '31 roadster when the time comes. I put over 130 miles of mountains on it for this reliability run in April.
     
    Ulrich Wöckener likes this.
  15. Thanks Elrod, It actually has worked out pretty good.
    The Wizzard
     
  16. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,114

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    wow ! great pix & info !
    ok , no wish bones (hair pins) , F1 steering box ( wrong side) , electric fan , electric fuel pump , open drive shaft / t-5 ,
    . it seems that my previous work will help me here . you guys are great ........... thanks .. steve
     
  17. Electric Fans belong in Honda cars not vintage Hot Rods. Go the extra yard and do it right. It's not that tough.
    The Wizzard
     
  18. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,114

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    actually just thinking out loud .
     
  19. Doc.
    Joined: Jul 16, 2005
    Posts: 3,537

    Doc.
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Awesome post Elrod.
     
  20. FlatJan
    Joined: Dec 13, 2013
    Posts: 241

    FlatJan

    yeah great post elrod
     
  21. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,593

    97
    Member

    lothiandon1940, Hotrodmyk and waxhead like this.
  22. Elrod
    Joined: Aug 7, 2002
    Posts: 3,561

    Elrod
    Member

    Yes! That looks outstanding.
     
  23. speedy pete
    Joined: Aug 26, 2005
    Posts: 72

    speedy pete
    Member

    0402141008-00.jpg 0402141009-01.jpg Second on Trade book. Another option a JW Garage A frame with a k member.
     
    A Rodder likes this.
  24. There are so many ways to do this it isn't funny. I wish now, that i'd used an X member from a later chassis than making a trans mount and leaving the model a crossmember in place but what can ya do.

    Here's a pic of my chassis after getting the engine, gearbox and frame step all finished.. I have since filled the notch in the Model A crossmember but haven't finished it.

    [​IMG]

    I then used '36 wishbones and split them with a 3.5" dropped Model A axle, and '41 - '48 stub axles with a reversed eye but otherwise stock Model A spring and perches (the perches need to be longer, or shave down where they sit into the bones.. i haven't yet gotten to this)..

    [​IMG]

    I then made a pair of brackets to mount to the underside of the chassis rails to mount the wishbones to.

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    [​IMG]

    When i mounted the engine i measured off a mates Roadster and we found that you can actually fit the engine in, with enough fan clearance while also not needing to modify the breather tube on the manifold. I can get you an exact measurement if you need from the radiator mounting hole centre line to the front face of the engine mounts if need be. I'm running an Edelbrock super dual manifold on it and this one was just to check the spacing for that tube. I'm going to have to knock up something for a fan mount down the track.

    [​IMG]

    Rear end was mounting using trimmed Model A spring hangers. The rear is a '48 Mercury. I am 99.9% likely going to buy those spring hangers from the company mentioned above.. they are really nice looking and better than fixing the pitting i have going on with these stock hangers.

    On the later rear ends, i had to space the spring hangers in ONE INCH from the backing plate flange. I do believe i need to trim the leafs down due to the reversed eyes hitting the one above as you can see in this picture, however that spacing is exactly as per a Model A rear end.

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    Pedals.. i too used F1 pedals but since the truck i pulled all the F1 stuff from was not infact an F1.. the crossmember was garbage. That's why i made my own. Seeing as the whole thing is made from 4mm plate, it's well and truly sturdy enough. I found some 8mm plate and drilled and tapped it to the same shape of the F1 pedal box and tacked that to the crossmember. I think i'm going to have to bend the clutch pedal a tad and do some trimming as it currently contacts the starter portion of the bellhousing which you can't see in the picture below as i had not yet bolted the sump pan on.

    [​IMG]

    As far as steering box goes, i'm using a '41 - '48 to keep the car cross steer and it works brilliantly with the same year spindles on the axle. I just made a mount using a 10mm plate drilled and tapped to suit the box holes and tacked it straight onto the boxing plate on the chassis rail.

    The beauty with '36 wishbones is they have space to run the tierod underneath the wishbones but they get tucked right behind the axle instead of hanging really low underneath. It's a really good setup. I know this is RHD but the same can be done on the opposite side for a LHD..

    You guys just get the added benefit of pedals not smashing the sump pan like we do. If you need any more help or measurements from the radiator mounting holes to get your engine in place i'm happy to measure it again.

    [​IMG]
     
  25. cretin
    Joined: Oct 10, 2006
    Posts: 2,867

    cretin
    Member

    28A is right, many ways to do it. Some good info here already, but not a lot of info on what specifically you are planning. Post that info, and it will be easier for people to help you. There is good info here already, but other options depending on the plans.
     
  26. I agree with the above and it really helps to know what you are using first.

    My opinion only, but i would have an engine, gearbox, juice brake spindles and brakes, v8 wishbone, a drop axle, pedals and steering box on hand before even thinking about it.

    While i respect some peoples opinion of using a Model A rear end and torque tube with the v8.. they don't seem to be particularly strong and it seems easier to use a v8 rear end from the get go and set it up with a shortened torque tube than use a Model A rear and then blow it up and have to reengineer half the ass end of the car to fit the later diff and torque tube. Just do it all once, and do it right.

    The other advantage is you can mount the engine probably that half inch or inch further forward and have it nicely clear the firewall.
     
  27. Rand Man
    Joined: Aug 23, 2004
    Posts: 3,509

    Rand Man
    Member

    There's some good stuff here. Of course I have the book.
     
  28. Whatever you do box the frame. Easy to do and will stiffen up a pretty flimsy stocker.
     
  29. A Rodder
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 2,477

    A Rodder
    Member

    This is the best, to the point thread that interests me the most, that I've looked at in awhile.

    You guys who posted all those pics and info and the other contributors are awesome!
     
  30. You still thinking about going with a V8?
    Either way, I do still like this thread!
     

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