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Flat head water pumps for a av8

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by nick_c, Jul 13, 2012.

  1. nick_c
    Joined: Apr 27, 2011
    Posts: 149

    nick_c
    Member
    from texas

    I need to know what water pumps I need to mock up my model a frame with a 51 merc flathead? An old timer said truck pumps but I'm clueless.
    Thanks
     
  2. thesupersized
    Joined: Aug 22, 2004
    Posts: 1,357

    thesupersized
    Member

    yea you need 49-53 ford truck water pumps. they use the biscuit style motor mounts and not the dumb motor mounts that were used in ford cars 49 and newer. not sure if 49-51 merc water pumps are the same as truck but i think they also have the biscuit type mounts.
     
  3. nick_c
    Joined: Apr 27, 2011
    Posts: 149

    nick_c
    Member
    from texas

    I think your right 51 mercs use the biskets but something is not right with the mount location.
    So anyone else have answer for this?
    Plus I planning on using a t5 tranny, do I need a motor mount on the bellhousing?
    Because Ive seen pics of sbc's with Chevy trannys cracking the bell housings with out a mount, when a hurst motor mount is used without a rear engine mount.
     
  4. Nailhead dodge roadster
    Joined: Jun 28, 2004
    Posts: 707

    Nailhead dodge roadster
    Member
    from Cheney Wa

    I believe the merc pumps have the mounts a little wider and mount the engine a little lower.....but don't hold me to that, I sold off my pump collection a while back or I would compare for you.
     
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  5. nick_c
    Joined: Apr 27, 2011
    Posts: 149

    nick_c
    Member
    from texas

    Anyone know if I need to build bellhousing mounts?
     
  6. firerod
    Joined: Jan 20, 2008
    Posts: 555

    firerod
    Member

    From what I have seen and used, you should be fine with water pump mounts and tranny mount. You shouldn't need a bellhousing mount.
     
  7. Vergil
    Joined: Dec 10, 2005
    Posts: 783

    Vergil
    Member

    Have two av8's wth t5's using rear transmission mounts, never had a problem with the setup. If I build another I would use the rear trans mount again. Just my 2¢

    Vergil
     
  8. nick_c
    Joined: Apr 27, 2011
    Posts: 149

    nick_c
    Member
    from texas

    So the Chevy bellhousing is just a thin casting?
     
  9. Vergil
    Joined: Dec 10, 2005
    Posts: 783

    Vergil
    Member

    Nick I used the t5 without the chevy bellhousing. Picture below.

    Vergil


    [​IMG]
     
  10. Nailhead dodge roadster
    Joined: Jun 28, 2004
    Posts: 707

    Nailhead dodge roadster
    Member
    from Cheney Wa

    That is a great looking engine.....
     
  11. nick_c
    Joined: Apr 27, 2011
    Posts: 149

    nick_c
    Member
    from texas

    I'm not planning on using any Chevy parts.
    Ive seen pics of 283 chevy's with Chevy trannys cracking the bell housings with out a rear engine mount, when a hurst motor mount is used on the front. Is this not the basic same way the flathead mounts. I'm not against making a rear mount or not making one. I just don't want to crack my adapter and the oem stamped steel mercury bolt on bellhousing.
     
  12. Nailhead dodge roadster
    Joined: Jun 28, 2004
    Posts: 707

    Nailhead dodge roadster
    Member
    from Cheney Wa

    The ford 3-speed with overdrive is about the same length as the t5 and I don't believe ford had a bellhousing mount on those. If you are worried, find a Stamped steel bell housing (if you are running an 8BA) for a merc, you won't have to worry about a brittle cast iron casting.
     
  13. nick_c
    Joined: Apr 27, 2011
    Posts: 149

    nick_c
    Member
    from texas

    I have the stamed bellhousing, a macs adapter and a t5 tranny.
     
  14. Kiwi 4d
    Joined: Sep 16, 2006
    Posts: 2,487

    Kiwi 4d
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Looks like you milled off a 3speed housing and used a sandwitch type plate. Cool idea. Any other tips or pics of how you did this to help others follow your lead?

     
  15. A tub
    Joined: Aug 15, 2008
    Posts: 209

    A tub
    Member

    i used 49-50 truck water pumps on my 8ba in model A frame,got em from macs they come with roller bearings instead of bushes and fit fine, look correct , all you need to do is get/make mounts weld em in where u want em,and get biscuit bush mount rubbers to bolt em in, check out mac's website im sure theyll have it all, well maybe not the chassis mounts but not hard to make,
    bolt up pumps, drop motor in where u want it, check your clearances, even it all up , make sure intake is sitting with correct angle for carb/carbs, just think while you do it and all will be good, dont go gun hoe and just throw it in and say yea thatl do, its a big feat to weld em in and then cut em off again because its not right,
    i did move my front crossmember forward a little before i did it just to gain some more room and very glad i did, basically an inch
    itl help if you have tranny 1st as you can use this to prop engine up or down whilst connected to engine, to get your front to rear angle for correct carb angle and whilst there suss your trans mount location and what you need to make it etc
    hopefully ive helped a little, im not saying this is the only,right,wrong way im just saying how i did mine
    A-tub
     
  16. A tub
    Joined: Aug 15, 2008
    Posts: 209

    A tub
    Member

    forgot to say cowl on is a good idea also
     
  17. 40FordGuy
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 2,908

    40FordGuy
    Member

    Cool bell setup. Do you have the bracket that goes between bottom of the oip pan, to the fwd side of the starter mtg plate ?

    Speaking of starters,..how did you move the starter to the driver side ?

    4TTRUK
     
  18. 40FordGuy
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 2,908

    40FordGuy
    Member

    Ps; Ford never used a bellhousing mount.

    4TTRUK
     
  19. Vergil
    Joined: Dec 10, 2005
    Posts: 783

    Vergil
    Member

    I used the stamped steel Ford/Mercury bellhousing with the Ford truck hogshead bolted to the stamped steel bellhousing, a Dwight Bonds adapter plate between the transmisson and hogshead. The t5 is from an '89 S10 if I remember correctly, it has the regular bolt mounting flange (not the bellhousing and transmission case made together). I mounted the front motor nounts 1" lower than the top of frame which let me have a flat floorboard and toeboard.To use the model a pedals I moved the mounting rod down and back 1.5" to clear the back of engine.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    I apologize for getting away from the waterpump thread .... will not post anymore about mine..


    Vergil
     
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  20. 40FordGuy
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 2,908

    40FordGuy
    Member

    Vergil....Keep postin'.....That's a super setup !!!!!!!!!!!! Love it!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Happy Roddin' 4TTRUK
     
  21. Vergil
    Joined: Dec 10, 2005
    Posts: 783

    Vergil
    Member


    One more just because yhou asked


    [​IMG]
     
  22. flatcrazy
    Joined: Apr 12, 2007
    Posts: 76

    flatcrazy
    Member

  23. Saxon
    Joined: Aug 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,154

    Saxon
    Member
    from MN

    Orginal ford never had a bellhousing mount. No problems.

    On another note, nice setup vergil, now just need to connect that to a torque tube and its the best ever. Seriously nice straight forward thinking.
     
  24. Saxon
    Joined: Aug 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,154

    Saxon
    Member
    from MN

    Nice
     
  25. nick_c
    Joined: Apr 27, 2011
    Posts: 149

    nick_c
    Member
    from texas

    I agree. Looks great. Thanks for all the info.
    I like how you mounted the petals.
     
  26. nick_c
    Joined: Apr 27, 2011
    Posts: 149

    nick_c
    Member
    from texas

    What is going on under the intake manifold?
     
  27. Nailhead dodge roadster
    Joined: Jun 28, 2004
    Posts: 707

    Nailhead dodge roadster
    Member
    from Cheney Wa

    Fuel injection???? I think its time for a new thread on your engine so this one can get back to the water pump topic.
     
  28. A tub
    Joined: Aug 15, 2008
    Posts: 209

    A tub
    Member


    holy fu-k-n christ vergil, man your a fricken scientist arnt you haha, please explain for all that dont get it, that is very rare to see on the flatty,
    yea i used stamped steel bell housing also( stock ford bellhousing) , i had mate make up adapter plate for me and bolted another ford manual box to it, easy as, p.s my starter is also on your U.S. drivers side they did do em
    now back to waterpumps and vergils mad scientists antics haha:)
     
  29. Vergil
    Joined: Dec 10, 2005
    Posts: 783

    Vergil
    Member

    On my av8 build I didn't want to cut the firewall and wanted to use an 8ba with mechanical fan. I sent my truck water pumps to Skip and had them rebuilt but replace the wide pulleys with the narrow pulleys using the pulley that is closest to the engine on both pumps so I could use one belt for both pumps and fan. Using one belt let me remove the front belt groove from the crankshaft pulley giving me the space between it and the front crossmember and spring U bolts and room to replace the v-belt when needed. I used the three blade fan and mounted another pulley to it for the alternator drive belt. I did make a bracket for the alternator but it mounts to the intake as the original did and fan adjusts the same. I have over 4000 miles on the setup without any belt problems or heating problems and using a three blade fan. What I think helps on my cooling is I am not runing the hood sides and this lets more air through the radiator and away from the engine. Last summer I ran it without a bug screen in front of the radiator but with a '32 style radiator shell it was tough getting the bugs and grasshoppers from the radiator fins so this year I am using a bug screen which blocks some of the air going through the radiator but so far no heating problems. A couple of pictures of it below.

    Vergil


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  30. 36tbird
    Joined: Feb 1, 2005
    Posts: 1,083

    36tbird
    Member

    I used to worry about the long moment between the front mounts and rear trans mounts on a flathead putting stress on the bell housing, too. One thing that alleviates this, I think, are the way the oil pan is tied to the bell housing. Another thing I do is use the anti-chatter rods even though they were primarily installed to work with the closed drive shaft design.
     

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