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Projects Flashback50 front end redesign and implementation

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Bertolasi, Jul 26, 2013.

  1. Maybe I'm just uninformed or simply stupid but it's my understanding that the tank should never be under pressure either positive or negative it should be zero.
     
  2. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 211

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Paul. You are most likely right for current production, and perhaps for all times, but I had to fix a dangerous high pressure issue to feel comfortable taking the car on road trips, and had to make some choices to do that. Since the tank is not vented via modern technology first problem was trying to figure out how to even vent the tank without predisposing the vent line to pick up liquid fuel is any situation, including overfilling the tank. Second issue was how to deal with the very high pressure and evaporation conditions caused by returning fuel to the tank at 45+ psi. (from pressure regulator on fuel rail) and elevated temperature (from pumping and flow path via engine area).. Third issue was finding a mounting place for the canister that could be safe for leaking excess vapors to atmosphere. Since current EPA ruling is NO vapor releases the intermediate years (80's and early 90's) information that I found could not be used since excess vapors (more than carbon load could absorb) were being released to atmosphere via the fresh air vent. Prior to 80's it appeared to me that tanks were vented directly to atmosphere, in fact, the vent tube that we welded to the filler neck was meant to hang out of the back of the car by the license plate.
    vent tube.jpg Considering all the above, and the fact that the only place I found that could accomodate the canister was in the engine compartment, I made the choice to allow a slight residual pressure on the tank, knowing that if the pressure built up it would bypass (tested the purge valves and found that several pounds of pressure from tank side would 'pop' the valve open) to the canister before it got to dangerous levels. In that way I feel the best compromise is being made for this situation in that some pressure prevents excess evaporation of the fuel and the loop layout gives me the best chance of containing and recovering those fuel vapors to better the efficiency (mileage) of the powertrain. Thanks for your input and, again, I think you may be correct for today's technology but I just could not work it all out that way for this package. bob
     
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  3. Hey Bob, this is off subject, but the other night I was watching that autopsy show I think it was on the History Channel which I recorded and they were analyzing James Dean's crash in California that killed him and there were a couple of pictures they showed one of which was it 50 or maybe 49 or heck it might have been in 51 Ford Coupe with the same trim lines that your car has I don't know what it's called I thought it was Crestliner but that's not it. I may start another thread on this. 20180502_211356.jpg
     

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    Last edited: May 4, 2018
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  4. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 15,193

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member



    that is 55 pontiac trim. a common modification
     
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  5. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 211

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Paul and Ryan. I have wondered about that picture. Here is the image that i picked up some time back
    James Dean 3.jpg and when i looked further, into the accident, I found this link that indicates Dean was actually driving the Spyder.
    https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/james-dean-dies-in-car-accident
    The Ford is simply identified as a Tudor and no way to tell since the car has been customed and that would have removed tell tale grille/ parking lights / gas cap indications of specific year.
     
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  6. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 211

    Bertolasi
    Member

    PS... here is another picture that i picked up a while ago that shows the ambulance,,,, a Buick wagon! james_dean_crash_ford_ambulance.jpg
    As popular as the pontiac side trim was for Ford custom treatment, the Chieftan (narrow at door top) models did not stand up well,,, and when I started in on Flashback it took quite an effort to find a full set of trim pieces (believe i got the last full set left in the US). There were two versions (length of rear quarter piece) of two door Chieftan's and that made everything more confusing. I found a full set but was the longer version (about 4 inches) which we had to shorten so that the pieces would fit properly on the rear quarter of the Ford. The original 50 that i built in 1955 had the shorter version and no mods were needed. bob
     
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  7. Also in that documentary they said that the ambulance had a fender bender on the way to the hospital and that James Dean did not have a neck brace on and that he was possibly banged around in the ambulance when they had that wreck. Also after the wreck they stopped and got out to check out the damage and that added more time to the trip to the hospital. Of course it's only speculation but had the ambulance not had a wreck James Dean may have lived.
     
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  8. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 211

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Between semesters at CLR so had a chance to do some touch up, clean up, and testing of the vapor recovery system past week. Took the car out for a longer drive today to test the vapor management and ended up at the Wings and Wheels museum in Poplar Grove (where many houses have hangers in their back yard). Got some pictures by an old gas station and garage that they have moved onto the museum grounds. IMG_20180605_111850822.jpg At Wings and Wheels reduced.jpg
     
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  9. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 211

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Mystery question for the day. Anyone ever seen the battery gauge needle go in the wrong direction? A couple of times now I saw the gauge needle parked at the discharged end, but thought it might be a loose connection. Checked it out more last week and watched the gauge intently while starting and warming the engine up several times and either the gauge moves from the relaxed position and drives into the bottom end,,,, or starts rising and then turns around and drives into the bottom. I believe the gauge is thermal mechanism and am at a loss for how it could go the wrong direction. Appreciate any help you can give. bob
     
  10. Hey Bob if you have a stock shoe box
    Ammeter in your dash there is a little loop on the back of it which is three eighths of an inch in diameter that your charging wire will go through that depending on which direction the electrons are going should show either charging or discharging. Didn't you rewire everything? If you're showing discharge I would think that within a reasonable time you'd have a dead battery if something has gone wrong with a device that's causing a discharge. If the battery isn't going dead then you may have a squirrel in your dash somewhere hahaha
     
  11. ffr1222k
    Joined: Nov 5, 2009
    Posts: 1,058

    ffr1222k
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Do you have a voltmeter or are you using the original Ammeter?
     
  12. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 211

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Paul and ffrl222k I have a voltmeter. When I rebuilt the cluster, had noticed that it was changed to voltmeter and had bench tested it and was showing 15volts fs. I checked the battery line to the alternator yesterday and engine with ignition on it is showing 12.6 volts. Engine running at idle, it is showing 14.7 volts. Have noticed no indications of battery being drained down. Decided to pull the speaker grille off this morning (had set it up with push screws because there is no speaker attached anymore) and check for testing/working access to the back of the cluster. I am gathering some tools and next visit will 1st. test power wire to meter stud to be sure it is not a problem with power delivery. 2nd. Remove the meter so I can bench test and hopefully repair. Really scratching my head at how the meter can be driven backwards when the engine starts. The needle sits just about at the lower right curve of the D when at rest. When I start the car the needle drives backwards to clear the left side of the D burrying itself at the stop. PS... if we had not added the 'skirt' to the dash for mounting the AC vents it would have been a lot easier to access the cluster from underneath - ahhhh but that is the 'joy' of customizing ,,,, right!
     
  13. Hey Bob.. from a previous post you made some time ago regarding Photobucket crooks...."I refuse to be forced into their rediculous payment schedule and have figured out that i can back into this an build a HAMB library of the posted pictures so that is what i am going to do. I have tested the idea at the bottom of page 6 and it is not all that much work. I will spend a little time each day reinserting the pictures working from the most recent posts to the oldest posts and eventually, will have all this corrected. If any of you want or need particular shots from other pages please message me and i will get them to you. thanks, bob"...

    I moved my pics to "smugmug.com"....which is WAAAAAY better than Photobucket EVER was.....$8.00 per month for premium account... and I generally post links instead of pictures whenever I'm "commenting" or trying to help somebody out.... see my link on my "account" thingy....By the way, I just saw your "startup" video.. is that oil pressure right ???? Please tell me you have or are going to have a matching sending unit... 'cause that oil pressure looks pretty dang low......hmmmm
     
  14. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 211

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Got off work at the pantry early today so I went to the car and 'investigated' some more. Voltage at meter is correct. Meter measured Open Circuit! Removed from cluster and carefully removed bezel so I could find out what is inside. This is a modified fuel gauge (inline resistor to rescale it for 15 volts fs (full scale). Never knew that the gauges for this car had calibration ports. I will know better after I repair the gauge and have it operating again, but looks like low and high ends are independently calibratible. Have located the proglem (failed connection inside gauge mechanism) and plan on doing surgery first thing in the morning (well,,, after a couple cups of coffee). I'll take some pictures of the guts so that I can put into next post and you can see ,,,, oh what mechanical wizards they were in the old days!
     
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  15. They surely were.. Where in the world did you find a voltage gauge that would work with the original instrument cluster. I looked and looked for one (bought a couple) but could not find one that would work out size/orientationwise, so decided to put a digital voltmeter on under the dash (see "wiring the car" on my home page) and keep the ammeter.. wired in with "smaller" (3/8" OD) welding cable from the battery in the trunk to the dash and back. Did you see my sequence of pics repairing my clock ?? if not, here ya go..::
    Scroll down about half way....
    https://49fordcoupe.smugmug.com/Tips-and-Tricks/
     
  16. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 211

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Hi Paul. I noticed today that the gauge ribbon is tan and someone has put the 50 Ford gauge decal over it. Perhaps this was a 'moderinized' cluster provided by one of several suppliers that did this in the 90's. I am thinking the gauge came from a truck or later model car. Will try to find out more about it's origin tomorrow morning when I work on the repair. Was a busy day on the pantry truck (I volunteer every Monday unless I am teaching class at CLR) and the Aldi's stores were 'uping' their donations big time today(I work on the commercial store pick up route,,,, they call me a food recovery volunteer - we did a bit over 3000 pounds of pack, load, and unload today). I am nodding off already so will pick up on this tomorrow. bob
     
  17. Aw heck, it's not important.. get some rest.... have a "glass"..........put your feet up, take off your socks....
     
  18. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 211

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Good morning Paul. Here is what I found and what I did.
    The gauge panel actually had the markings from original dash (fortunately they had clipped off the decal and left the original gauge part number showing. It is a 1A-9306 which should allow us to backtrack and find what it came from.
    batt gauge details.jpg
    When I opened up the gauge it did not take long to find the problem. Whoever did the mod apparently had never dealt with Nichrome wire and tried to solder it leaving a big ball of solder on the end of the scaling resistor lead (to change from fuel voltage span to battery voltage span) with the Nichrome wire not really involved (probably had enough flux solidified around it to hold it in place for some time).
    Batt gauge repair 2.jpg
    As I probed around I found the wire would slide into and out of the ball of solder. I cleaned all the old solder off the resistor lead, re-tinned it, and carefully scraped the end of the Nichrome wire with an X-acto knife.
    Batt gauge repair 3.jpg
    Then managed to get my fat fingers to twist the end of the Nichrome wire around the resistor lead a couple of times so that the next step would be more positive. I cut off the lug from an insulated #22 crimp lug and used the crimp barrel to connect the Nichrome wire to the end of the resistor lead.
    Batt gauge repair 4.jpg
    I reformed the resistor lead to take the pressure off of the Nichrome lead wire coming from the base of the thermal element (I believe that leaving the tension there would have messed up the gauge calibration as just moving the wire would make the needle respond.
    Batt gauge repaired 1.jpg
    Bench tested the gauge, recalibrated the low end to get the needle to rest 'off of the D' marking and reassembled the mounting bracket to the gauge. I will reinstall this afternoon and close everything back up. Regards, bob
     
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  19. A freaking genius you are, son!
     
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  20. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 211

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Last weekend, trying to get some road time on the car, the AC stopped working on the second trip, on the way home. The AC in this car is an old Southern Air version converted for separate temp and fan controls (by me) so I could match up all the knobs and bezels on the dash. Beginning of last week I checked out the problem and found that the connector had two pins not making contact.
    connector color wire ids.jpg
    Not knowing if the control had malfunctioned and drew lots of current through the pins or if the pins had become loose over the years and finally decided to generate high resistance contact and then melted the housing, I took the pc board out of the housing and traced the circuit and then checked the components.
    Genelco 14-993A AC control001.jpg
    The control board checked out fine so I ordered a replacement connector housing and new connector sockets and rebuilt the harness connector. Stuffed it all back in the housing, re-connected the harness, and got a chance to check all out yesterday. It now works properly and no indications of heating in the connector area.
    connector color wire numbers.jpg
    The gray wires go to the thermal resistor embeded in the AC plenum and the yellow wires go to the temperature setting pot (potentiometer) on the dash. Best I can tell from the web search is that this same type of control was used for years by Southern Air and other aftermarket AC guys. Thought someone might get some use out of the information I had to seek out to work through this issue. Regards to all, Bob
     
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  21. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 211

    Bertolasi
    Member

    My dad always said ' watch the angles' and of course I always listened. However at this point in my life I find I do not always remember his advice. Was having trouble with the trunk latching shut and at the show last Saturday, could not get the trunk to latch at all and found the bracket plate that holds the latch pin was bent over. Dug into the problem Sunday and Larry (the problem solver) machined a wedge for me to pick up today. I installed and centered up the pin with the latch throat and wala,,,, all is working great now. Problem probably started when I took the bend out of the plate while getting all put together. I was thinking that it got bent in the fitting process (49 trunk fit to 50 latch plate) but now realize that it was supposed to be bent to clear the back edge of the latch plate. Just did not pay attention to the angles!
     
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  22. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 211

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Just about done with show season and have had several short and long rides with no further vapor issues so I am going to consider that problem fixed and get ready to go after the rear spring issue once I take the car off the road for the winter ( about a month from now). Does anyone have any advice on rear spring squeeks and creaks? I have tried putting motor oil, wd40, axle grease, etc. but in very short time the leafs start making noises again whenever car bounces (or just pushing down on rear end will cause it). I have not changed the bushings because they look fine but am beginning to wonder if I have been missing the main point. Shock bushings look kind of dry and cracking so I do plan on changing them. Any thoughts on the shackle bushings? bob
     
  23. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 211

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Latest reports are that we have 10 to 20 times as manny mosquitoes in the MidWest due to all the rains and warm spells. Nobody said anything about how big they are! Was planning on going to a car show last night, and this happened!
    hijacked car.jpg
     
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  24. As for the squeaking go get yourself a Harbor Freight stethoscope that has about a foot long Probe on it and have somebody bounce on the car while you lay on your back and reach under and find out exactly what's causing the noise. Four dollars.
     
  25. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 211

    Bertolasi
    Member

    King.jpg At the shop today to start getting my head around changing the spring and shock bushings as stopped next door to talk to the Kings about some other matters. Noticed that they have just finished another Ford Sportsman and getting it ready to ship back to owner. Thought you all might enjoy a picture of native beauty. These guys are like nos builders (new but from original specifications not new old stock) even to the point of ordering custom wood pieces so that they are exactly what would have been (if it had not rotted away over the years). It's amusing watching them put coat after coat of finish on the wood panels and then rub out and do all over again.
    Hope you all have a peaceful Christmas and a healthy New Year. Bob Bertolasi
     
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  26. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 211

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Have replaced the shackles, front leave spring pins, and shock bushings and decided to look into the hood latch safety release issue that I was having at the end of last season. I am finding that the inspection scope (lots available for $50 or so) is my favorite tool for understanding problems and working out answers. Got myself into trouble in about 10 minutes when I decided to nudge the hood mounted latch assembly about 1/4" forward and then could not get the safety release to work. Ended up testing out my backup plan for failed pull cable or hatch operation and after getting the grille removed and popping the safety,,,, realized that it was probably meant to be! Turns out the hood mounted assembly was not aligned right and the plunger bolt and safety catch were both bent. Got the scope out and as soon as we get the parts straightened out will be using it to realign the assembly and hopefully no longer have to worry about operating the release. IMG_20190412_155754449.jpg
     
  27. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 211

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Larry made a new spring locator for hood latch and before installing the rebuilt latch assembly, I worked out a couple of issues with the hood hinge/mounting/alignment. Used the inspection scope to locate the upper latch assembly correctly, then torqued all down and we now have a working properly latch. Can now lower hood and with gentel downward push can get it to latch instead of having to drop it from a foot above latchpoint. While taking a break I walked next door to see what the Kings were into and here is a picture that I took of thier current projects, a 47 Merc, 40 Ford, and 39 Ford wagon wood replacement and/or repair. 47Merc40Ford39Ford at Kings.jpg
     
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  28. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 211

    Bertolasi
    Member

    SOO,,,, since it stopped raining for a couple of days I got optimistic and decided to get the car out of the garage and take it to the car show in Belvidere this weekend. Got about two blocks from the garage and the gauges all quit working! Worked on it for a couple of hours at home but was having trouble keeping sweat off of everything as it is 90°/90% here now that the rain has stopped and sun decided to come out. Gave up and took the car back to the garage so I could work on it without soaking it in sweat. Don't know that i have ever seen this before. From the terminal on the voltage reducer board to about 4 inches back the copper wire has corroded so bad that it turned to powder in many areas. Had to keep stripping a bit of insulation off and yanking on the wire strands till they would not break off any more. Here is what the mess looked like (this is aobut 1/2 inch of the bad area. corroded copper1.jpg
    On the strand bundle you can see the tips of one of the areas that had 'rotted' out. Can this be due to anti-freeze? The panel is below the hose that was dripping last year. Hope you all are getting good work/show time in.
     
  29. Dang, that's nasty. Whatever caused it keep all joints dry, maybe heat shrink tubing?
     
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