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Projects Flashback50 front end redesign and implementation

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Bertolasi, Jul 26, 2013.

  1. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 215

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Little by little we are catching up with some of the forgotten items like rusted 12-24 screw replacements that are not typically stocked by many bigger stores. The rivet punch finally arrived and we have finished assembly of the vent window / channel units. Got them installed this week and worked out a few more of the 49 doors in a 50 car issues. Also had a chance to get the rest of the B-quiet material applied, and I am currently sorting out power wires in the trunk battery bay to add fusing to correct the 'hot' wiring that was connected to battery in trunk but not fused till it ran over and under floorboards to under dash area. Will add one picture taken today after I cleaned up the interior somewhat from several days of cutting and fitting materials, pulling wires through armored door conduits and modifying window mounting brackets/fastener holes. Bob
    IMG_20150506_164203.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
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  2. daddio211
    Joined: Aug 26, 2008
    Posts: 5,994

    daddio211
    Member

    Love the progress!
     
  3. Chip Foose must be jealous. Beautiful work, my man................
     
  4. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 215

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Been tracing down wiring and working on final connections of various items. I thought that it might be useful to post a couple of diagrams here. The first is for the custom panel which I have installed to provide regulated 6.6 volts to the instrument cluster for proper gauge performance, and while I was working on the remote circuit for the door poppers and auxiliary functions I realized that it is more generic to any car that is being setup with a remote (up to 8 channel remotes are very similar regardless of supplier) so I am posting it also. First the translator panel showing additional power which has been provided via added wires from battery distribution panel in trunk.
    Inst translator and fuse panel trim.jpg
    The lower three connections on the left terminal strip are the alternate to an active regulator circuit instead of the connections to a passive voltage reducer (they are sensitive to battery charge/voltage condition) device often fitted behind the speedometer cluster.

    The remote receiver and valet device (added for ability to turn on lights without opening doors) are very generic with identification of the PPI harness wire colors the probable exception to others wiring (I decided to use the fuse breaker panel positions for power windows and power door locks since the wires from these two fuse positions were 'tied off' behind the dash when I took everything apart).
    Remote and Valet circuit trim.jpg
    The fuses indicated were supplied with the remote and the valet. The remote is typical AutoLoc kit as best I can tell from visual id of the parts, and the valet is a DEI 611T, available from several on line sellers. One item I should note is that if you are sticking with conventional incandescent bulbs for running lights (parking and tail) and type 87 bulbs for interior lights then you cannot drive both circuits with the 5 amp valet output.

    I am waiting for some distribution panel parts for the trunk power center and once I have those fitted I can start the final rewiring and reconnection work. Regards, Bob
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
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  5. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 215

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Have had several good days to work on the car past couple of weeks and have managed to get the trunk power panel organized. Here is a line diagram that goes with the two above to help further define the rewiring. I was very concerned about the power wiring when I discovered that the previous sparky had run live wires between the carpet and metal floor pans without fusing them from the battery end,,,, good way to loose a car to fire due to shorted wire overheating. The diagram below shows that except for the starter power wire (runs along the frame (exterior) all other power feeds will now be fused at the source (higher than circuit fuse requirements in general but safe enough to cut power to circuit if partial short occurs (wires mashed to floor pans).
    Trunk Power rev1.jpg
    I am working on a component layout that makes best use of the space around the battery and keeps the area behind the panel as accessible as possible. I decided to keep the remote and clock power on a separate keyed circuit so that I could disable most of the car (turn off battery switch) without having to pry things apart to re-enable.

    I got the new pins from Larry (he designed a pin that allowed me to hook the popper solenoid wires inside the door latch rod pins and not have to take chances with the steel wire getting tangled up in the latch rods. That set things in motion to get the door assembly on final path and I am closed to finished on that. Next chance I get I will seat the door window panes in the lift channels and get them installed in the doors so that I am ready for the interior panels.
    door parts ready to assembly.jpg
    Larry also designed some neat little pulley like items to fasten the steel cable to for better resistance to fretting.
    inner pin- pulley details.jpg
    I am still chasing down wires for the Accel EFM computer and injection system. If anyone out there knows someone that has an Accel EFM manual I would really appreciate a name or phone number or link reference so that I can try to get a wiring diagram for this older (est. 1990's) generation control system. I don't mind upgrading and would look forward to the benefits of active mapping and tuning, but want to get everything up and running first, before I try to make any major changes. I am puzzled by some of the wiring that doubles back from one side of the firewall to the other and back in several places. Probably was a reason,,,, but then again,,,,, Here is a top page of the manual that I am looking for which I found on the web, but item was already sold and cannot contact the buyer.
    accel efm manual cover.jpg
    Appreciate any help you can give me on this and very much appreciate your continued interest in this project. bob
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
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  6. daddio211
    Joined: Aug 26, 2008
    Posts: 5,994

    daddio211
    Member

    Wish I had help to offer, but maybe a bump up the list will help.
     
  7. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 215

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Thanks Eric. Appreciate the support. Bob
     
  8. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 215

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Thanks to those of you that helped look for the Accel information, it is no longer important. I have made contact with several owners/sellers of the Accel system and now know that the Gen7 product was not successful and Prestolite has dropped support for it. I was able to find enough information to work out the rest of the wiring that I needed to untangle and connect and have reworked the translator panel to now have it as an interface for the Accel system as well. Here is a view of the reworked translator wiring diagram.
    updated translator panel.jpg
    And a view of the panel, waiting for the Accel wiring to be installed.
    valet and translator panel stage 2.jpg
    I will 'unwind' the Bosh relay from the harness (it was tucked up under the dash, behind the radio, very close to the grommet where the harness goes through to the engine compartment, which is why I was not finding it.
    In getting to that, I rearranged the trunk power panel as well to make the wire locations more related to the distribution. Here are a couple of views of that panel with the fuse box/cover tested for fit and function.
    trunk power panel rear.jpg
    relay is for the trunk popper solenoid, near right is battery switch, and next to it is key switch.
    trunk power panel.jpg
    Added fuse position on right is for key switch circuit (powers remote receiver, clock, and trunk latch relay.
    trunk power panel lid on.jpg
    cover test to make sure that wiring was not interfering.
    power panel with fuse box.jpg
    view, 'over the top' of check for battery cable attachment access. Violet wire is for antenna power, and spool of yellow is for drivers door bypass switch (direct control of solenoid in case keys are left in car when doors shut).
    While working on those details, I remembered that I did not have a good ground point for the solid state flashers which have an extra wire (battery negative lead for complete circuit to IC inside flasher). I found some soft aluminum (0.062) and formed an angle plate with a slot in it to work into the PPI fuse panel. Now I can go ahead and install the new flashers.
    fuse panel with ground stud.jpg

    Next major goal is to get the window glass installed in the doors and quarters. Thanks for your continued interest. Best regards. Bob Bertolasi
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
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  9. Man I hate wiring ... glad you won't need my help. I'd hang myself. Or at the least cry. It looks really nice.
     
  10. daddio211
    Joined: Aug 26, 2008
    Posts: 5,994

    daddio211
    Member

    Wow! Clean work man!
     
  11. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 215

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Class load is over for the summer so I am finding more time to work on the car. This week I have managed to finish up reconnection of all the wiring forward of the firewall and addition of wiring to handle underhood lighting and rearranged power distribution from the maxi-fuse to the auxiliary fan relay and fuse panel. I used a temporary power supply to test the under-hood lighting and am reasonably satisfied with the results. Here are a couple of shots of the lighting tests, and unexpected 'break' that I got from a couple of left over 5/16-18 tapped holes in the hood frame that I made some special cable clamps to work with.
    SAM_3231.JPG
    SAM_3230.JPG
    SAM_3227.JPG
    Lighting test in pitch black garage stall but hood is about 1 foot more open (higher) than it will be with regular hood stand rod since I am still using the wood prop stick that Kings made to help me limit head scrapes. Bring the hood down a foot and the fringe lighting over distributor covering will move onto firewall ledge. The rewiring of the engine bay harnesses is done on the passenger side and I am thinking if there is anything that I can do about the tangles on the drivers side. Here is a better shot of the engine bay as it now is. I have a new air intake filter but will not put it on till we have worked through pre-lube and engine startup procedures.
    IMG_20150724_134047.jpg
    I decided to use the horn bracket that Andy made as a grounding point as well so I cleaned off the frame side surfaces and the bracket side surfaces, coated them with dielectric (silicon gell) grease to stop corrosion, then planted a couple of high temper external tooth lock washers under the flat washers and nuts that fastened the brackets on as well as flat washers and high temp locks under the bolt heads. Additional wiring tied to these bolts is on second layer so that the main compression nuts will never be loosened again. Meter checks showed less than 0.1 ohms (limits of meter) between bolt before wiring was attached (bolt to flat to lock to frame to lock to flat to bolt) so I have used this grounding spot for the aux fan, horns, headlamps, parking/turn lamps, and control relays.
    IMG_20150724_113735.jpg
    Had some 'thinking' to do so I used the time to get some primary cleanup done. I wiped down the fan shroud louvers to get all the dust and grinding residue off them as well as the A/C dryer and adjacent fittings and then took a shot with normal lighting and lowest expected angle to check if I hid the wiring harnesses good enough. Before the grille goes back in place there is a perforated metal (also sprayed satin black) backing that fits tightly to the opening to further obscure the stuff behind the grille.
    SAM_3226.JPG
    Looking forward to getting more of the interior taken care of this week, and getting to work on the rest of the wiring under the dash and in the trunk. Did get the door windows, channels, vents all lined up and tightened down and all seems good there. I am looking for some 1/4"ID x 2"OD fender washers to make restrainers for the latch cables (from solenoids over pulley to door latch pins) so that they won't jump out of the pulley groves as they wear and loosen up a bit or some butt head decides to really slam a door. Still looking for a pressure pre-luber, but am not having any luck so I may have to resort to pulling the distributor and using a pump/priming drive rod.
    Thanks for your continued interest. We are still hoping to have this car on the road before the snow falls. Bob
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
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  12. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 215

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Before I retired I remember the purchasing department buying stuff from Fastenal, but little did I know what a great place their stores are for solving problems. This is the third time that they have bailed my sorry butt out of a situation. Today I wandered in and asked if there was any chance that they had 2 inch fender washers for 1/4" bolts and the associate calmly asked "how many do you want". That, after three nights beating the web sites for a seller that would sell something less than 100 pieces and no luck. Went straight to the shop to see if the fender washer idea would solve the cable restraint concerns that kept gnawing at me. Here is a quick shot that I took of each side after installing the washers.
    IMG_20150727_152341.jpg
    IMG_20150727_152537.jpg
    Pulley moves freely within the washers on both sides and both are now locked down solid.

    On another note. If any of you are working with PPPI harness kits, I have traced out the buss bars for the 28 circuit panel. Here is an overlay for the panel in my car. I expect that all 28 circuit panels will have this same configuration.
    PPPI fuse panel buss bars.jpg
    legend should have said HOT, Aux, and run. B+ is connected to hot all the time, S1 also when the key is in Aux, S1 and S2 when the key is in run position. When I bought the car, it was not fitted with backup lights and I needed to find out if the harness wires for the backup lights got to the trunk area or not,,,,, they DID! Bob
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
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  13. daddio211
    Joined: Aug 26, 2008
    Posts: 5,994

    daddio211
    Member

    Digging your ingenuity!
     
  14. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 215

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Last few weeks have been ones of catching up with details. Larry is working on the support blocks for the backup lights which will be in the license plate area with the third brake light. I have been trying to connect the various wire ends that I have left here and there while trying to make sure that I had accounted for everything. I no longer have a spare power line to the translator panel as I had forgotten about power for the bucket seat actuators (both seats are electric). Also had to work in the power for the rear view mirror map lights and figure out where to put the override switch for the electric radiator fan (until I get time to work out a temp switch in the engine). In the meantime, Sheldon is closing in on the upholstery with most of the items roughed out and some on final fitting. He is working from the rear quarters forward and as he finishes up a panel I am working on the trim stuff but clearly avoiding the 'big' problem task of working out the weather sealing rubber trim for the quarter windows through the areas where there is not enough clearance to use the full base thickness in the window channels. I am still trying to figure out if I should 'grind' the rubber or skive it with a trim knife, or jig it and cut it with a circular saw diamond blade.
    IMG_20150804_152747.jpg
    Along the bottom, the seal fits fine with room to spare but along the top and especially near the rear there are several areas where I will need to 'get rid' of about 1/4" while keeping the sides uniform across the visible window.
    door uphonstery fitting.jpg
    Sheldon is fitting a matching as he goes along and he is close to finished with the door panels and has rough cut the kick panels which should be covered and ready for final sizing this coming week.
    visors in place.jpg
    visors are done, and final fitted.
    Drivers seat.jpg
    The bucket seats are finished, and electrically tested to make sure that all actuators got reconnected. This is the drivers seat with the seat raised nearly to the full up position (easier to reassembly the base to tracks that way).
    I have started the electrical testing of all circuits prior to final assembly of the dash (radio, clock, and instrument cluster will be last items assembled because they virtually cut off easy access to everything else.
    PL 1.jpg
    PL 2.jpg
    PL 5.jpg
    PL 3.jpg
    While testing out and starting up the various circuits I am also checking out the performance/presentation of the selected items and comparing to my expectations. The above pictures were taken while checking out the parking light/valet override circuit operations.
    Each work session is closed up with the doors and trunk shut as tight as possible to condition the seals. Doors are almost flush fit now but trunk has another 1/8" or so to settle in to a good fit. I have been avoiding the recommended 'pure silicon' rubbing routine because of the obvious implications for getting any of the silicon on the paint, but may try one of the OTC rubber conditioners available to help the rubber take a final set.
    That's it for this session. Thanks again for all your comments and interest. Best regards, Bob Bertolasi
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
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  15. Great Work, Bob.. You are a bit ahead of me on some of your progress, but I'm a touch ahead of you on others...

    I noticed you have two new holes on the driver's side end of the dash-what are they for?? and you did the same thing I did on the "radio hole"....

    Here is what's been going on in my garage...(just the latest..the interior..but lots of other info in the other galleries)
    https://49fordcoupe.smugmug.com/

    https://49fordcoupe.smugmug.com/The-Interior/

    https://49fordcoupe.smugmug.com/Sound-System/

    Keep up the good work !!!
     
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  16. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 215

    Bertolasi
    Member

    HI Paul. Thanks for the comments. I see that you and I are using a lot of parts from the same vendors. Did you have to modify the A/C-Heat vent louvers to use them in your panels? I had to remove the outer shell to get them to fit in properly. You are way ahead of me on the engine side of things. As I posted earlier, I am still trying to find a pre-luber so that I can safely turn over this engine that has been sitting for about 3 years now. Last resort will be to remove the distributor and use a pump drive adaptor fitted to a flexible joint drive and, probably, remove the hood to be sure that I don't screw up anything while hanging over the engine. I have really enjoyed working with the PPPI power panel and all the 'well marked' wiring that they supply. I did not install the system in this car so am even more appreciative of the great job that they do labeling everything. This car will be driven by wife and I so I am trying to keep the engine bay 'clean' but not so showy that I will mind having to wash down every now and then. I like the way that you organized your folders on PB,,, I will try to figure that out for the reorganization of this project. Bob
     
  17. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 215

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Paul..... sorry I forgot to answer your question about the holes in the dash end - drivers side. They were there when I took off the chrome end pieces and since I am planning on putting those back on, saw no reason to eliminate. Bob
     
  18. Oh yeah, I forgot about those chrome pieces... guess they were an option...

    As for the "grilles", they will screw to the bottom of the dash except one of them will be on the passenger's side kick panel..I could not figure out a way to get grilles to work out in that curvy dash so I finally just said "screw it".... and went with the "hangy down" type..ahah.
    https://49fordcoupe.smugmug.com/The-Interior/i-7CBkg6s

    I don't remember what your engine is, but if it's a chevy, I already made a preluber from an old distributor... it was a pain in the butt, but it worked just fine.... will sell since I don't need it anymore...
     
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  19. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 215

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Any of you had any luck with automotive paints on pvc tubing? I have been looking for a way to 'clean up' the steering column presence as the wire cluster connector on the side of the column, which would have been hidden by the dash skirt panels in more recent cars, sticks out like a sore thumb.
    Str Coul 1.jpg Str Coul 2.jpg
    I rummaged around a bit in the old stock area of the shop and found some thin wall pvc tubing which happened to be a good size for the task. Tracy and I cut a chunk off the tube, then sliced about 80° out of the cylinder and this is what I ended up with.
    Str Coul 3.jpg Str Coul 4.jpg
    I will make a final piece with the lower end cut to match the angle of the floorboard and come right down to the carpet. All good but it is PVC! Any of you had any luck with automotive paint (I would like to match the dash paint which is GM-Graystone Metallic via Pittsburg, a 3 stage application) on PVC?
    Thanks again for all your interest and comments, they really help! Bob
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
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  20. Maybe you could try this... first scuff the PVC, then spray with Rustoleum primer for plastic (Home Depot). Let it cure really good, till the stink goes away.. scuff sand it, then use Duplicolor sealing primer, then use scratch primer, then color coat,, then clear coat, then Megueirs polish, then wax. It will be purdy except where your cowboy boots kick the paint off...hahah

    https://49fordcoupe.smugmug.com/The-Interior/i-szPLgXc
     
  21. Or cover it with carpet?
     
  22. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 215

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Interesting idea Walt. Have you seen one done that way? Under the dash and more or less out of plain sight, it may make more sense to 'pad' it as I am sure there are going to be kicking scuffs to deal with if painted. bob
     
  23. No, I have not seen one carpeted before. The low camera shot made me think of it
     
  24. Yeah....Carpet....but on the other hand, when the seats are in, and one is sitting upright, will the starter switch/wires really be visible? Spray it all black??? may not even be visible/noticeable once all is done.... just thinkin'
     
  25. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 215

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Sorry I have been away for a while. Took some time to enjoy a new grand-daughter and, all over again, be amazed at what precious life we bring into this world. This one is already watching NASCAR with her father and she's only 4 months old. Figured out how to 'roll' when she was just 3 months just after learning how to stick her tongue out just like her mother (our daughter).
    11817043_919783784755500_1027535206306590386_n.jpg
    Things on the car have slowed down a bit as I wait for some parts and upholstery to come together.
    I did get to working out the 'fix' for the oversized (relocated and not filled in) holes for the radio shafts.
    IMG_20150828_161627.jpg
    While surfing the net and looking for some 'dress' washers, I noticed some square walled cup washers that appeared to be machined out of round stock. That seemed like a great idea so I got Larry to work up a couple of washers for me to the following print, but ended up agreeing with him that the rims were too massive as originally sketched and he took about half the stock out of them (turned the OD down) so make them look right. After a few hours on the buffing rig the aluminum washers were close to shine/sheen of the chromed plastic radio knobs.
    radio knob bezels with reduced shell.jpg
    That did the trick to clean up the radio installation so one more item worked out and ready!
    polished bezels in place.jpg
    While working on a bracket for the trunk light to hang by, we noticed a really crude grind job on the popper for the trunk, so Larry machined up a brass cap for that and that's one more item resolved.
    new trunk popper cap.jpg
    I have run the measurements on the rear quarter window channels and Tracy (woody guys next door) whittled out a couple of leveling strips for me to set the window on and get a uniform dimension to the chrome trim strip across the entire bottom of the window space. It's my move next to work on the window sealing rubber strips and get the visible lip portion to show the same all the way around the window.
    That's it for this writing. Am getting close to turning the engine over and getting the rest of the mechanicals into shape,,,, but looking doubtful now if we are going to have the car on the road before the snow flies. Bob
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
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  26. daddio211
    Joined: Aug 26, 2008
    Posts: 5,994

    daddio211
    Member

    Awesome! I dig the machine work on the small detail stuff, it shows you care about the finished product!

    And grandkids are so much better than kids!
     
  27. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 215

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Hope you all had a great Thanksgiving. Now that the CLR school load let up I am getting a few things done on the car project. I have just about finished up the trunk details and wiring. Larry made the brackets for mounting the backup lights on the sub plate for the license plate cavity (57 Dodge trunk section) and I did a trial fit before committing to license plate illumination (on the back lower slant of the 3rd. brake light).
    LP assembly p1.jpg
    After making sure that all would stuff into the space available, I pulled the wiring to a connection box and tested it for 'dark' conditions.
    IMG_20150910_145503.jpg
    license plate - actual lighting test.jpg
    The illumination coverage and 'falloff' was good enough for me so I closed up all and firmed up the assembly.
    LP assembly p2.jpg
    Tightened up the trunk latch a bit more to keep pressure on the new lid seals to settle in.
    Went back to the miss-calculated trunk interior illumination and worked with Larry to resolve the issue.
    Trunk Light 1.jpg
    We hinged the trunk light and made an adjustable knife arm for the upper mount so that the light can be stored in the full up position and used at any angle between the full up and the arms out positon.
    Trunk Light 2.jpg
    Trunk Light 3.jpg
    Trunk Light 4.jpg
    I made a final test to be sure that the light turned off properly as the trunk closed. The box in the picture below is 5 x 7 inches in the positions I was using it.
    Trunk light minimum on.jpg
    Trunk light maximum off.jpg
    Sheldon found some time to work out a bit more of the upholstery and we put the rear bench in place for fit test.
    rear bench in place for fitting test.jpg
    Before the Spring semester gets into full swing I am hoping to get the rear quarter window seal strips trimmed and windows fit into place. I have gathered up all the parts for the pre-lube rig and will be posting details of it soon in case any of you are interested. Total cost so far is about $30 and I don't anticipate anything significant adding to that. I also picked up a flexible (metal gooseneck type) oil can to use to lube the upper cylinders areas with Marvel Mystery Oil before I attempt to bar the engine around.
    That's it for now. Good luck with all your projects. Bob
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
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  28. DANG ! Good looking work. Guess my patience or maybe talents just aren't what some other's is... ahaha... As I find myself saying a lot is "I ain't no Chip Foose".....

    Love what you are doing in the trunk. What is that trunk "holder upper" slide rail off of ? I was going to use gas cylinders, but decided not to, as "trunk action" isn't something that will be a constant thing, so not as important to me to go to all the trouble to make the trunk opening "cool".... So a manual trunk "holder upper" is just fine with me. Very interesting way you are doing the licence plate/back up lights....I'm just 'a thinkin' I'll be seriously copying your ideas, if ya don't mind too much. Keep at it.... Lookin Great !

    The latest work around here is "the doors", "body work", and "trunk lid hinges" galleries on my SmugMug website.
     
  29. Bertolasi
    Joined: Aug 19, 2012
    Posts: 215

    Bertolasi
    Member

    Hi Paul. Like your car project on smugmug. my trunk 'holder upper' is stock trunk rod assembly. I might have a spare if you are interested. I cannibalized a 49 to get spare trunk, hood, and doors and I believe that they were similar prop rods. Bob
     
  30. Thanks, Bob...... My holder upper is a rod about 5/16", runs on a slider on the under side of the fender with the pivot on the trunk lid, and noisy, sticky, and kinda cheesy.... WAAY different from what you have...
     

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