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Technical Fish carburetors

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Moriarity, Sep 18, 2016.

  1. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 15,797

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    So I bought a fish carb at the St. Peter swap this morning. When I was in tech school for auto mechanics back in the 70's one of my classmates brought one in. This is the only other I have seen since then. Does anyone here know what the deal is with these?[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


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  2. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 10,577

    gnichols
    Member
    from Tampa, FL

    Do a HAMB search, there is info here. Gary
     
  3. PM Mike Zenor, he has had them and posted a lot over the years
     
  4. tb33anda3rd
    Joined: Oct 8, 2010
    Posts: 15,273

    tb33anda3rd
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. Connecticut HAMB'ers

    cool looking carpuretor.
     
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  5. BuckeyeBuicks
    Joined: Jan 4, 2010
    Posts: 1,684

    BuckeyeBuicks
    Member
    from ohio

    Fireball Roberts drove a 55 Buick stock car sponcered by Fish Carburators!! I read somewhere that it was so good and made engines get such great mileage that the oil companys bought the pattens to get them off the market.
     
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  6. nrgwizard
    Joined: Aug 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,123

    nrgwizard
    Member
    from Minn. uSA

    Noooo, but Fish did have problems w/the Post Office, after some strings were pulled - due to some (unfounded) accusations were leveled. & back then, that meant virtually no shipping. Kinda killed the business.
    Were very adj for different a/f ratios, & different fuels, fuel flowed out the throttle shaft alongside the butterfly, using very low fuel-pump psi , ~ 1.5 - 3 psi, iirc. They worked very well, but were NOT Super-Carbs for ultra-hi-MPG, as others - NOT the Fish Co - claimed. Did help return a bit more mpg, & better throttle response, = more power, but considering what was OEM n aftermarket back then, well... :D .
    Eventually, Mike Brown got the rights n patterns, after that, another guy, but both those guys priced themselves out of the market. Personally, I think it was on purpose. & long story as to why. Remember?, it was the early 70's->80's by then, & all the BS that went along w/fuel.
    Fish had ~ 5 different models, & iirc, all were single barrels.
    Neat find.
    Marcus...
     
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  7. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,994

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    I believe Mike Brown is still in business. He said he got out of making Fish carburetors in 1996 because fuel injection took away practically all the demand. A few years ago he announced he would make one final batch of carbs at $800 apiece.

    He published a manual on the Fish carb that is the most complete information available. A good investment if you want to use yours, I think I paid $15 for mine.

    Fish himself never made any ridiculous claims like 200MPG or such nonsense. The only vehicle he said would get substantially better mileage, were certain 1955 V8 Fords that came with defective carburetors in the first place.

    His carburetor worked on a different principle from any other, and had the advantage of being tuneable for any car without buying different jets, rods, etc.

    This means it can be adapted to any engine and adjusted for peak efficiency.

    http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/books/the-fish-carburetor-book/
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2016
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  8. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 2,594

    carbking
    Member

    The only way to know for sure how good? the carb performs is to do a back-to-back road test. My mentor in the carburetor business did a back-to-back 1000 mile test. His test vehicle: a 1963 Ford 6-cylinder station wagon.

    It does make an excellent paperweight and a wonderful conversation piece.

    Try it! And post your results!

    Jon.
     
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  9. Most people confuse the Fish carburetor with the Pogue carburetor which was supposed to get 200 or so mpg.

    Mick
     
  10. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 2,594

    carbking
    Member

    Have had several Fish carburetors. We used to sell one occasionally to a restaurant in the south (NASCAR country) to hang on the wall (NEVER to put on an engine). The Fish does have a history with NASCAR; Mr. Yunick was able to make the Fish run fairly well with Hudsons on NASCAR tracks where the driver never had to lift. The venturi area was about 40 percent larger than the original Carters. More air, more HP at WOT.

    Never have had a Pogue carburetor. One was a no-sale on Ebay a few years ago. As I remember, the starting price was well into 4 figures.

    There is a LOT of information out there on the Fish (my folder is probably an inch thick), if you look. I have not seen much information on the Pogue.

    Jon.
     
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  11. tb33anda3rd
    Joined: Oct 8, 2010
    Posts: 15,273

    tb33anda3rd
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. Connecticut HAMB'ers

    so all the hype of high fuel mileage and better performance was just [sorry] a red herring to get you to buy them?
     
  12. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,994

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Fish published testimonials from customers that claimed around 20% or 25% better mileage.
     
  13. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 2,594

    carbking
    Member

    My mentor's back-to-back test averaged 23 MPG with the stock Holley, 26 MPG with the Fish.

    His driveway slanted down from the street. During the test, he had to BACK into the driveway, as he had insufficient power to back out of the driveway without significantly slipping the clutch.

    Jon.
     
  14. southerncad
    Joined: Feb 5, 2008
    Posts: 688

    southerncad
    Member

    I got one back around '62 and put on my bone stock '40 Chevy, didn't make a damn bit of difference in the way it ran, and then who checked gas milage:D
     
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  15. Road Runner
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 1,244

    Road Runner
    Member

    I fish there would have been more similar unique carp designs in the early years.
    Not for any carptical purpose, but for the enjoyment of posterity to look back how once folks bought $$$-gadgets they didn't really need - like the iPhony
     
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  16. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,994

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    That is interesting, as most cars have a lower reverse gear than low gear.
     
  17. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 9,851

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Was there a reason for calling it a 'fish' other than it being a carp? (uretor...)
    (to draw attention to Road Runner's post...)
    Good one...
     
  18. captainjunk#2
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 4,337

    captainjunk#2
    Member

    I bought a fish carburetor once , it didn't run for carp guy told me it was because it was out of tuna , I think it was running rich getting to much bass , : )
     
  19. tb33anda3rd
    Joined: Oct 8, 2010
    Posts: 15,273

    tb33anda3rd
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. Connecticut HAMB'ers

    one problem they have [so i've heard] is an insulator must be used under the carb, they ice up and the needle doesn't close, referred to as a frozen fish stick.
     
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  20. Slopok
    Joined: Jan 30, 2012
    Posts: 2,365

    Slopok
    Member

    Sounds Crappie to me!;)
     
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  21. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 4,844

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Mahi-Mahi, this brings back memories. I used to live next to a pollack who had a fish carp perched in front of a turbot on a flathead. He always snook out after dark to race. One night he suckered Gil de Ferran into a street race. The pollack sidestepped the clutch and bluegill away. Cod, that thing would scream.
     
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  22. traffic61
    Joined: Jun 15, 2009
    Posts: 1,441

    traffic61
    Member
    from Owasso, OK

    All of the fish puns are enough to make one eel.
     
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  23. aaggie
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,529

    aaggie
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The high mileage claims with the Pouge carb was from the way it worked. There was a system that actually preheated the gas mixture to vaporize it before being sucked into the engine. Very lean mixtures could be run. The problem that killed the program was when additives were added to the gas to stop detonation it clogged up the preheat system. It did work well on early low compression engines, I don't think it ever returned 200MPG but it did get a significant increase over conventional carbs of the day.
     
  24. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 2,594

    carbking
    Member

    I have been working on carburetors since 1959; and have yet to speak to anyone who has:

    (A) personally successfully run an engine with a Pogue carburetor
    (B) personally observed anyone successfully run an engine with a Pogue carburetor.

    I did get some literature on the Pogue (not much) when I acquired the Stromberg files; but no mention of the Stromberg engineers actually trying the carburetor. Stromberg ACTIVELY sought out inventors of carburetor improvements. Some of the most interesting (at least to me) reading of automobile history is contained in the files of Stromberg working with non-Stromberg personnel.

    I really get a chuckle when I read that the high mileage carbs really DID exist, but they were purchased by the oil companies to protect their profits. Who had the most money? The oil companies, or General Motors??? If such carburetors did exist, does anyone believe the automobile manufacturers would not have fought to have these on their cars??? Unfortunately, it is impossible to argue pipe dreams with factual data.

    Incidentally, if one compares the existing drawings for the Pogue carburetor to those of the Holley kerosene vaporizers used on mid-teen tractors (not the vaporizer system used on the Ford T), one finds the design of the Holley kerosene carb and the Pogue remarkedly similar.

    Jon.
     
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  25. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 9,851

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    So many variants of the tale of the little man who went to Standard Oil with his 200 MPG carburetor in a bag.
    He entered the offices and got on an elevator, never to be heard from again!

    My Mom used to tell me this story at bedtime...never bothered me, "Uh, Mom...Leave the light on...Don't close the door... no, wider..." :eek:
     
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  26. 40 Olds
    Joined: Jul 2, 2008
    Posts: 55

    40 Olds

    IMG_1339.JPG IMG_1340.JPG IMG_1341.JPG

    Found these recently
     
  27. 40 Olds
    Joined: Jul 2, 2008
    Posts: 55

    40 Olds

    IMG_1342.JPG IMG_1343.JPG IMG_1346.JPG
    Few more
     
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  28. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 3,854

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    $49.50 in 1955 was a chunk of change for a carburetor, they are cool, but..
     
  29. Who remembers that "help me get my fish carbs back" thread?
    I wish someone saved that one.
     
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  30. gt alex
    Joined: Mar 8, 2013
    Posts: 1

    gt alex
    Member
    from Australia

    I have been running fish carbs reliably for last 10 year they have great torque and do give better milage mostly because less gear changing four hills etc.
    I would be keen to get some original drawings or even copies
    I am thinking of trying to make some now that I am retired.
    Thanks
     
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