I've been trying to figure this out for the last hour or so. What was the first year of the synchromesh Saginaw 3 speed? Thanks guys.
found this on google, your friend. Looks like there was more than one. SAGINAW 1966-81 Cars, 1966-87 Light Duty Trucks: Parts List 92 Cast iron case and extension housing with 7-bolt side cover. Fully synchronized with 30 tooth synchro rings. 1966-69 units may have electric overdrive. It has a four step cluster and all the gears are helical cut. BORG-WARNER T16 1965-68 Cars, 1968 Trucks Inquire Cast iron case and extension housing with 9-bolt side cover. Fully synchronized with 27 tooth 1st gear and 36 tooth 2nd & 3rd gear synchro rings. Has case casting number T16-1X. Found in heavy duty applications. MUNCIE (Heavy Duty) 1969-74 Cars, 1969-76 Trucks Parts List 75 Cast iron case and extension housing with 7-bolt side cover. Fully synchronized with 36 tooth synchro rings. This is the only GM 3 speed with the same bearing front and rear. This transmission is found in performance applications.
Thanks. I was trying the Google but nothing I found said for sure what year it was. So 1966 is the first year of the synchromesh Saginaw.
The trans case and side covers are very different from the earlier common non-syncro 3 speeds. So, appearance would be my answer. Ray
With the engine running push the clutch in and immediately stick it in first, if it don't grind its syncro..If that doesn't tell you then try going into first from second at 15 mph or so..
You can tell when driving one but I'm looking for one that will probably be sitting on the floor of some guys garage.
=================== 1966 Brochure talks about the "new" fully synchonized 3 speed. http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/stat..._Brochure/1966 Chevrolet Full Size-22-23.html the 1965 brochure just says 3 speed synchromesh. http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/stat..._Brochure/1965 Chevrolet Full Size-16-17.html This link says Chevy use the Ford all synchro 3 speed a year or 2 earlier. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/3-speed-with-synchro-first.628183/
Haven't taken the cover off..... Just going by the net.... But,from what I gathered,it "should" be....... Not holding my breath on that one though.......maybe someone will chime in. Mid/late 60's GM from a truck.
EDIT: Found a pic of the earlier trans....this is a '58/'64 with the shorter tail housing and rear mount pad. The '55/'57 is the same main case, longer tail housing and no rear mount. You can see how much shorter the main case and side cover are compared to the full syncro model under discussion. the below comments are in reference to Invisible kid's trans pictured in a post #10..................... It is the full syncro model. The main case is longer, the side cover has more bolts......put it side by side with the earlier non-syncro 1st gear trans and the differences are unmistakable. to my knowledge, the case type you have was never produced in a non-syncro 1st gear version. Maybe a googler serach could turn up a pic of the other trans, there were produced in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions. Ray
If it's a Saginaw, then it's a full synchromesh transmission. If it's the old 4 bolt side cover Muncie, then it only has synchros in 2nd and 3rd.
Hey Ray and Jim- Does the "model" I have represent a full syncro unit? I can pull it to check,but with this info from you both,I'm thinking it is. Thanks.
I absolutely believe yours is a full syncro model. I have one just like it (minus the shifter bracket) laying in my shop right now......also collecting dust. Ray
I have been doing some more searching and found this pic. The guy said it was a Saginaw 55-65 3spOD. So I guess that would be the non-synchro version.
The guy steered you straight. It's a non syncro 3 speed O.D. with the 4 bolt cover and the full syncros were a lot bigger with the 7 bolt cover...easy peasy. BTW, the full syncro model also came with overdrive -[rare] and some guys use the overdrive unit behind the saginaw 4 speed trannys...4 speed with overdrive! Also, I've had a lot better luck with the full syncro 3 speeds...stronger.
Yes, that is the non-synchro 1st gear trans. However, it appears to be for a '55 thru '57 model because of the length of the tailhousing and no rear mount pad. On '55/'57 cars, the trans just hangs off the back of the bellhousing with no additional support. The basic trans is the same for '58 thru '64, but is shorter and has the mount pad as mentioned previously. The '65 may have a longer tailhousing, but also had a rear mount, so this transmission is not a '65, in my opinion. Ray
The non-synchro 1st transmission is a Muncie, although a lot of guys don't know or care, and call it a Saginaw. I can see why you would be confused.
That would be a MUNCIE 319 transmission-non-synchro first gear. Without the overdrive it is a MUNCIE 318 transmission, and the same non synchro first bgear. Very WEAK transmissions, but do fine as long as you don't beat on them. The Saginaws, later MUNCIE 3-speeds, and the later Borg Warner 3-speeds are all full synchro. Those last 2, 3 speeds are somewhat harder to find (E-Bay's a good source). The later Saginaw 3-speed with overdrive is the trans used to convert a Saginaw 4-speed into a 4 speed with overdrive; they share the same main case and main shaft. That photo/work bench sure looks like Tom Parsons/DZAUTO over on ChevyTalk.Org, and he calls the transmission a SAGINAW. All the books, and parts houses refer to it as a MUNCIE however. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
I decided to hit the fast lane on the freeway yesterday, about 75mph, with my Muncie 318 and 3:55s. Really revving. Could I put an overdrive unit behind it, same length? '56 Corvette, has rear mount.
Yes. I did it to my 66 GMC truck. If it's a long tailshaft transmission in there now the SM319 w/OD will bolt right in and work great. My truck has 3:54 rear.. What had been 70 @ 3000 RPM is now 70 @ 1800 RPM
My memory says that the short tail shafts were found in vehicles w/ 2 piece driveshafts and long tail shafts were found in vehicles w/ 1 piece driveshafts. Pick up transmissions had the bottom 2 holes threaded because the bolts were put in from inside the bell housing.