First they came for the tuners, but I did not speak, as I am not a tuner...

http://thenewspaper.com/news/23/2302.asp

 

That really blows. Cali has some pretty strict modification laws though primarily based on emmissions, not really targeting racing... at least that was the intent i think... looks like enforcement doesn't see it that way

 

Okay, initially it seems as though those poor ricers or tuners were being harrassed. However, there is a lot of info need to make a judgement. For one, if they didn't have a permit to assemble, then they were breaking the law and therefore all searches of vehicles and questioning of drivers would be legal. Second, if that area has a history of street racing, then the officers have the right to question possible suspects and or witnesses.

Incidents like this can be handled very peacefully and actually end up being more fun. For one, get the permission of the property owner to assemble. Also, GUARANTEE that ALL trash will be picked up and there will be no loud music or displays of speed.

The sad part is, in situations like this, the majority of people are actually out for a nice, quiet time. It's the few assholes that show up who end up ruining gatherings like this.

You also have to look at it from the property owners view. If some jerk does a burnout or other stupid shit and hurts someone, the property owner could face legal action.

Were the ricer/tuners picked on? Perhaps, but they put themselves in that situation and ultimately paid the price for taking the risk. You can't just decide to gather on someones property, regardless of your intintions, without the owners permission. And only a group of dumbasses would gather in what could be considered a "hot spot". They were asking for trouble from the get go. Hell, they could have saved time and trouble and gathered in the police parking lot.

People just need to use their fucking heads sometimes. No sympathy for them here, man. Or anyone else who does stupid shit and gets busted.

 

I do feel a little remorse for these ricers, but like was already said, they put themselves in this position. Where I live, you see these tuner cars racing up and down the streets every Friday and Saturday night. They draw attention to themselves with their glowing neon lights, thumping stereos and fart pipe exhaust. They drive reckless and show no respect to other drivers. Sure, the police are going to crack down and put a stop to this nonsense. I`m not even going to get into how many kids have been killed by street racing.

 

Why does one need a permit to assemble, when in America freedom of assembly is GUARANTEED?

We went through this in St.Louis in the '80s. (South county). The brown clowns would roll in, sweep the parking lots and want to harass and inspect everything. After the cops sucessfully busted cruisin Lindbergh Blvd, petty crime went way up in the area.


Just keep taking harmless fun from the kids, they'll find something else to do..........

(And I'm not referring to reckless driving, rather the basic right to assemble peacefully)

 

ummmm, how many kids do you think were killed in the 50's & 60's from street racing? Do you think the "average" person might have thought the same thing about open headers, removed interiors, missing hoods/fenders, and any other go-fast mods back then? Haven't "hot rods" always attracted attention? isn't that part of the point? I guess I don't see how this is different. Bottom line to me, is they weren't actively racing at that moment, and I personally don't want to get pulled over in any of my cars simply because they are capable of breaking the speed limits, ya know?

 

I agree but if it is on someone else's property then it's a different situation. I think warrantless searches are bullshit ,though.Make them get a warrant .

 

As a kid myself (with a tuner car, and a rod), speed is speed, fast is fast, and looking good is looking good (in your opinion).

These kids are the new generation hotrodders, making something go fast that was never meant to go fast. If we dont step up and defend these kids, then we may get sideswiped with trouble we never saw coming. Why not step up and defend someone who modifies their car for speed. Just because they have a diffrent idea of style then we do? Are the billet boys that much worse then us? Would we not defend them? What about the muscle car guys? Where do you draw the line?

 

^^^^ I agree

 

I agree about the "They put themselves in this position", but "if" there was no evidence of street racing, burnouts, etc, I don't feel the police should have "interrogated" them about the add on performance parts and ticketed for such unless there were other accusations or charges against that particular driver. I also think a warning and an order to clean up, load up, and leave should have the first option, especially if there was no foul play or signs of wrong doing. But then again, we don't know what they were doing in all actuality. It's hard to read all of that into one article.

BTW... I hate those damn loud, obnoxious tuners too.

 

Have to agree, I don't think it was the assembling of cars that got them in trouble, it was the fact that the cars are modified for performance (which ours ALL are). A lot of these kids just want the cars to LOOK fast, as I did years ago when I was kid putting shackles and mags on my old camaro. The fact is, its all about revenue and they were an easy mark. I doubt there will a sting operation at the GNRS ticketing highboys for no fenders, but these are all steps paving the way to target hotrodders nationwide.

 

If there were more programs at tracks for kids to goto and screw around at the track that might help, but maybe there is and they just dont go. I do feel bad a little but like alot of you are saying they draw attention to them selfs racing around on the street. I keep remembering how hard California is with there modification laws, it has to be tough.

Jon

 

When is it illegal to add on performance parts if they are legal parts?!?! I don't care what they drive they are enthusiast just the same, and for some officer to tell me that I am adding parts just to break the law is bullshit people go out and buy new cars that are powerful for what purpose?...to have the ability to do the things the car is designed for, so what now cops are going to pull people over driving new corvettes and mustangs and ask them "why did you buy this car? you must want to speed here's a ticket for intent". Now what about the people with diesel trucks who add on bigger turbo's and such for hauling, what about the same guy's who race there diesel trucks? are they going to get ticketed too. We need to step up and end this bullshit about what the officers believe to be intent with no evidence, hell I have guns does that mean an officer has the right to arrest me for the "intent" to commit murder? this sounds more like infringement of our rights.

 

Sounds like bullshit to me. Put yourself in their shoes....you're at a cruise night with your buddies, 50 other hot rods around....the police swarm in and start impounding cars and writing tickets. Without cause.

I would be calling a lawyer before those assholes ever opened the door of their cruiser.

 

Not on private property...

 

So should they cops raid the Lonestar Roundup this weekend? The majority of those cars are modified for performance... And you do not need a permit to assemble on private property, some states and cities have made a permit required for public property though. Though my interpretation of the Constitution thinks it's not required. Most of what happened in that article looks to be bullshit revenue generating. The cops need to go out and solve some crimes...

 

Imagine yourself in the ricers shoes for a minute and feel the injustice! WTF?! "Perceived Street Racing?!"
Since when is it the American way to persecute on assumption and not the actual crime. Okay, bad example, but what happened to being innocent until proven guilty?
You can apply this to all sorts of things, for example carrying a gun. If you were arrested for carrying a gun because you were a "perceived murderer", not that you had brandished the weapon or even shot at someone, is this any different? Wow. This is fucked.

 

It amazes me that some people just don't understand why we "modify" our cars and trucks. So if these kids are doing this to race on the streets are the guys with 4x4 trucks making big beefy suspension mods and large tires doing that so they can go drive their vehicles on your lawns or off road on private property? Really THIS incident is a bit rediculous. As usual ther was probably much info left out in the article by judging just the article these kids were screwed. How do we know they didn't have permission to be there. It looks as though (judging by the picture) they may have had permission to be there. The cops weren't herassing them about being on private property ot they ALL would have gotten tickets. They ticketed the people with "performance modifications". Also by the way you guys talk about this all being kids... Adults modify these cars too.

 

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]From a different article, linked in the first one:
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Police in Riverside and San Bernardino counties last week also generated publicity by inviting television news crews to film four customized automobiles, including a 1993 Honda Civic and a 1998 Acura Integra, being crushed after having been seized over accusations that the cars were illegally modified. Officials claimed that some of the parts used, despite purchase receipts, may have been stolen. The crushing took place without any of the accusations being proved in a court of law.


Now, I understand that whenever I leave my driveway, I'd better have the lights working and plates on... I don't like drawing attention from the man. But this seems ridiculous. I don't like the fact that go looking for these things to "up revenue".

And crushing someone's car due to accusations with no proof and receipts that show "stolen parts" weren't stolen? You Cali boys have receipts for those Grenade shifter handles or the fenders your buddy gave you?

I'm also a little peeved that the site refers to violations of "drag racing" but I really don't want to bring that back up.
[/FONT]

 

But where would they get the money to buy more radar guns? besides who wants to stop criminals, they have guns.

 

The great thing about the Constitution is it is open to interpretation. That way it is not limited to 232 year old thinking.

Permits are for public ground, Permission is for Private ground. No permission is trespassing.

When kids would have field parties on our farm land, it was trespassing, and they were arrested.

Hunting on our land without permission is also illegal, btw.

BUT if these guys had permision, then there is no way the cops could have messed with them UNLESS a couple bad apples were doing donuts or something visible from the road, then they get the probable cause bs. I have fought speeding tickets, no probable cause to use the radar gun, it works 0% of the time.

 

Here in Ga if some dumb cluck runs into your car on a parking lot said dumb cluck doesn't get ticketed because it's on private property. The cops won't even assign blame, they just write a report.

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If the cops target law non-criminal citizens they generate revenue for the judical system. If they target criminals it costs the judical system money. Which one do they spend more man power doing ?????

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Hunters have the same problems. Guilty until proven innocent.

 

I understand the private property issue, but if thats the case, round 'em up and escort them out if they don't have permission to be there. If it is a repeated offense, then I can see it becoming a legal issue. It seems, according to the media, that this was just an opportunity to fill the cash box and johnny law to flex his muscle. It's disturbing. I believe if it was the other way around, and they had hot rods and we had the tuners, they would still be surrounded on the lot because they are young and therefore an easier target. just my .02

 

These kind of "assemblies" happen frequently here, usually without permission in some business parking lot. We are guaranteed the right to peaceful and lawful assemblies by the constitution, but these are not either. And it's often the prelude to street racing and serious crime.

If it were just racing, it wouldn't be that big a deal, but here there's a 99% probablility that there will be drugs, guns, and underage drinking as well. Mix all that with gasoline and the results are deadly, especially for some innocent victims.

That story sounds like harrassment, but there is probably some law that has been crafted to allow law enforcement to do its job.

 

Regardless, someone needs to look into this. I wonder if SEMA has been notified? They lobby for the "aftermarket" illegal parts they talk about.

 

catching law abiding citizens is easy and less risky.and they usually have money to get their ass out of a bind. going after criminals takes guts skill and power and wepons..the cops are just taking the easy way out. and the revinue they get from the law abiding citizen keeps them in their jobs..going after gun toting criminals may end them up in the hospital or the ground..its simple ..path of least resistance..complete lazyness and turning a blind eye to the Real problem hoping it will cure itself...as it only gets worse..typical human behavior..really im not kidding..

 

Can you say Gestapo? I knew you could. Right, cops won't go after criminals enmasse because they shoot back and judges will turn them back out to the streets faster than they would a street racer.
But really, what is the difference between this and how Hitler rounded up the jews? All these people did was have something in common and met together.

 

I can't believe anyone here would think the cops were in the right.
Hauling away cars because they were built for racing? If my gasser has tags, lights, horns, mufflers and insurance, I should be able to drive it anywhere I want. If a cop rolls in, looks at my car and says "That looks like it was built for racing" my answer is "Damn straight it was built for racing." That does NOT give them the green light to back up the roll-back.
Assembly on private property? If the property owner hasn't complained, the police have no business being there. If they have complained, then yeah--the cops should haul them out.
Search of a vehicle? The police have no right to search your vehicle, unless they see something illegal in plain sight, or a dog smells dope. Other than that, "No sir, I do not give you permission to search my vehicle." They can try all the "If you don't have anything to hide what's the problem?" bullshit, but the answer is still "No, not without a court order. And my lawyer will be present."
These kids were targeted, unfairly. If there are some bad apples, then single out the bad apples. Because it's only half a step from ricers getting busted for racing-looking vehicle to track-style fenderless hot rods with numbers on the door, gassers with names and decals, and muscle cars done up like the Rod Shop Dodge getting hauled away because they've been modified and could be used for street racing.

-Brad

 

I'm not supporting the Cops, but an impromptu gathering at night of a bunch of loud cars is going to ruffle feathers. Cops LIVE for this stuff.
However I think the Nazi comment might be a little far out. Cops are dicks, but they don't round us up into work camps.

 

Just because 'some law' has been created doesn't make it legal. Jim Crow had 'some laws' created to let enforcement do its job, but was found to be illegal under the constitution. And about crushing cars on the 'belief' they contained stolen parts?!?!?!?!?!?!?
THIS IS NOT THE AMERICA I FOUGHT FOR! What if they come after your car for safety violations? Emissions tampering? Adding speed equipment?Or they just 'make some law' and start seizing old cars for environmental reasons????? I can assure you that no lawyer's son was involved in this farce...ever wonder why??? Do you honestly believe that no kids in the upper-middle/upper class neighborhoods do this same stuff? Why no Sheriff Stampede there?Because THEIR parents have the resources to raise he//, thats why!

IMHO; the one great problem facing our country today is the legitimization of completely ridiculous lines of thought as those above. It is my belief that you get the government you deserve. When you see wrong....fight it. No matter who is on the other side because sooner or later, your turn will come, and who will be left to speak up for you????