The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Geofordman, Jan 14, 2009.
Sell it for scrap and buy a chevy engine.
They're there. They're special. They're staying where they are. I pulled one down off my buddies shelf and he about had a stroke. Everything he's got is 'special'. I'll try and snap a pic of the Shelby Boss302 dual quad intake.
Buddy Bar cast lots of the factory HP intakes and valvecovers. Boss/FE/etc.....
I almost forgot this. " The reason these intakes I speek of are so special and valuble is the car that they came on. If you are lucky enough to own the car, having the correct intake is just a bonus >>>>.
Yeah....you either are filthy stink'n rich and bought it within the past 20 years, was a hard work'n man back in da day and bought it new or had the vision and wherewithal to pick one up in the 70's during the gas crunch.
Why would anybody put a chebby engine in their car? It would only mean having to push it to the race track for others to laugh at! Looks like I'm gonna go with a single four, dual plane and grind off the advertising until I find a suitably cool old intake I can afford or build a faux six, one barrel intake.
I have some info to add: in 1964, the hipo 289 still had a cast iron intake and single point distributor. The 65's that I saw had an alum intake and the dual point dist. without a vac. advance unit. I have a brother who bought the factory 3 deuce setup for his Falcon 260. I've owned the 2 X4 setup also. I would choose the single 4 first and the 3 X 2 setup next if it was my car. The only thing wrong with an alum. single four intake is it lacks the cool factor. A real deal is going to cost a couple of grand. What's it worth to you?
Gentlemen, Thank-you for all the great info. I must say I learned alot here. Looks like I'm going to go with a single four "V" intake and put a Vintage Speed dual Stromberg adapter on it.
This doesn't really address the original question about the first aluminum 4v intake for the SBF, but for the record, the very first SBF 4v intake (as far as I know) was the factory cast iron unit from 1962 with the casting number of C2OE-9425-K.
What would this have come in? I thought all 221's were 2v in 1962. I wouldn't mind getting one for mine if one could be found.
They are made of "unobtanium"! I've seen exactly one ever offered for sale. They came on the 260 XP engines used in the first few Shelby Cobras (before they switched to 289 production).
You might see "Tiger" in place of Cobra cast in an old Edelbrock manifold. Grab it and hide it under your bed!
Offenhauser and Buddybar both cast intakes for Shelby in the same time frame based on the 1965 Shelby parts book dealers got. The volume rush must have been so large no one shop could keep up. This is most likely why differences show up on early 1965 GT350 intakes. There are several versions of small letter small temperature intake castings. I have held five different original versions. Nothing Shelby related is very easy to unravel as change was constant. I had one of the first designs and it was a super light weight thin wall casting that did not have enough material in the walls to be able to even do mild port matching. That version being so thin walled is pretty fragile and not many seemed to have survived. The water passages will rot out quickly without antifreeze and they break easily. It seems every casting run must have included fixes and improvements for a while. It does not appear that Shelby had much in retail parts sales in 1962-64 but in 1965 they advertised widely and parts were everywhere. I think even Sears carried Shelby engine parts in their catalog one year.
There were two TIGER lettered aluminum intakes offered to Sunbeam Tiger buyers/owners. The first was a low rise one exactly like the COBRA lettered part offered as a regular production option on 1964 Cobras except for logo change. The second was exactly like GT350 COBRA high rise intake except for logo change. Neither was made by Edlebrock.
Before getting real excited about any TIGER lettered high rise 1-4V do some detective work. Do not pay the price for an "original" if it is home grown. Posts on forums where Tiger owners get together explain that it is not uncommon for COBRA lettered high rise intakes to be reworked into TIGER lettered ones. Side Note: I have seen my self a modern Edlebrock design reworked to have COBRA lettering on it, it is on a genuine 1965 Cobra.
The prototype Ford iron 4V intake on the prototype HP260 engine in the prototype Cobra (CSX2000) has SK12569 cast into it. That was followed by the dual marked XE/C2OE preproduction iron intake used on "production" Cobras with HP260 engines. At least one HP260 powered Cobra was completed in 1962 (shown in a new car magazine road test) with the Holman-Moody intake covered in another thread. The earliest iron 4V intake that I have shown in a period photo is a strange thing that looks like a 221 4-V intake on what is believed to be a 260 and it was taken at AC Cars.
Only three Cobras are documented to have been completed new with high rise intakes and that was after GT350s were being built. None of those three is believed to have the induction system they left SAI with still.
Cobras and early GT350s did not use the same size water temperature sensor. Cobras used a Cobra only XF- Ford part made by Stewart-Warner that is a larger size pipe thread. Years ago I saw a high rise small letter intake for sale with not only with the correct Cobra size water temperature port but the correct Cobra only heater hose shut off valve for a street Cobra was still in the intake. Funny, the bidding didn't go high as no one seemed to want a small letter intake with larger water temperature port. The rare water valve alone was probably worth a quarter of the final sales price.
There were triple carb intakes for early small block Fords that were sold as aftermarket from the Ford dealer parts window. The castings said Buddy Bar as I remember. I bought one cheap at Stafford Springs once without really knowing what it was. I never had a small block Ford but for the price and the fact you hardly saw small block Ford stuff at swap meets in NE, I bought it. Went to a guy later that was doing a Fairlane. http://www.mustangtek.com/FordIntake.html
I bought a Mustang new in 1965 that had the 289 2 barrel engine. Looking in the paper one Sunday I came across a dual quad intake for a 289. I went and looked at it and it was a Offy and the guy wanted $50 for it and it was new. So I bought it thinking I'd do something with the 289 in the Mustang. Another local fellow had a coupe with the 289/271 in and I asked if he'd be interested in buying the manifold. So he bought it from me for the price I paid. So I'd say Offy was one of the first to cast SBF manifolds. I think I saw some Weiands around that time too.
The Weiand Company was founded by Phil Weiand as a performance parts warehouse in the 1930s and sold a variety of speed parts. The first Weiand product, the "High Weiand" manifold was manufactured and marketed in 1937. It was the first aluminum intake on the market. In 1949 Weiand introduced a series of "tri-power" and four 2-barrel manifolds and immediately after WWII Weiand debuted a line of aluminum cylinder heads for flathead Ford engines. The famous "Drag Star" line of "log" manifolds for Hemi engines was introduced in 1952 and in 1957 Weiand developed complete blower drives for the GMC 6-71 supercharger. The first dual plane, 180º intake came from Weiand in 1965, known as the "Colt" and in 1968 Weiand introduced the "Hi-Ram Manifold" and its patented D-port technology.
I think the Colt 65 was one of the earliest. Look good, fairly tall, would be correct for early SBF.
I have had this one hanging in the shop forever, thought it was cool so I brought it home from the dump metal pile. Had to sneak into the back of my of my truck when the dump guy looking the other way,LOL
The 289 HP never came from Ford with an aluminum intake. It had the same 4V cast iron manifold the A code engines got through it's run up through 1967..
I have an original 1/2'' letter cobra intake with a small water temp opening. I also have an aluminum cobra pan with the trap door. Any interest?
The problem with the Edelbrock is the carb spacing is such that it'll only accept Edelbrock/AFB carbs; no 'other brand' Holleys allowed. I think they'd sell more if they fixed that, but they seem to be insistent that you buy their carbs.
Multiple Holleys (2V or 4V) on a SBF will usually require tracking down a 'vintage' Ford or Shelby intake unless you can use a tunnel ram. Multiple carbs were on their way out by the time the SBF got popular as big 4V carbs became available.
The only current production 2 4V Holley that isn't a tunnel ram for a SBF is the Price Motorsport unit, but it's a low rise unit designed for Cobra replicas and only fits the 351W.
Circa 1962 Holman-Moody ‘low rise’ aluminum 4V intake for 221/260 Ford engines. The runner volumes and port sizes were created for 260 c.i.d. engines. A few of these got installed in 260 powered Cobras in 1963 with the ‘bird logo’ machined off.
This is the family of optional aluminum intakes (bottom image) for 260 and later 289 c.i.d. Ford powered Cobras before 1965. (January 1965 and thereafter there were all kinds of versions on aluminum intakes available from Ford and Shelby before 1972.)
The COBRA ‘low rise’ is a rebranded Holman-Moody like the above. Shelby American, Inc. made this a regular production option for 260 and 289 powered engines even though sized for 260 engines in terms of 1961-62 technology. This low rise option was dropped when the ‘high rise’ racing intake was created. With no provision for PCV they were not intended for street use as 1963-1964 engines in new Cobras used PCV systems. I know of one dealer installed and the dealership rigged up a road draft crankcase ventilation system. (Side note: The similar but different casting pattern 1965 MUSTANG GT350 intakes introduced in December 1964 did have a port for a PCV hose to connect.)
The 2-4V system became a regular production option in January 1964 and was popular thereafter. Only one customer street car was fit with 4-2V 48 IDA Weber carburetors system and that was in 1964. More than a few privateer period race Cobras didn’t start out with 4-2V but gained them later.
221/260/289 Ford engine hop up wise there were multiple users 1962-64 and into 1965 with five bolt blocks that were winners in just about every class of racing they fit into on several continents. Holman-Moody (who prepared Ford Falcons for racing, mostly in Canada and Europe I think but don't quote me). Shelby American, Continental Cars, AC Cars, Genie, Lotus, Rootes Group, Griffith, Lola, and what would become Ford Advanced Vehicles in England used a variety of versions of 260 and or 289 engines in Cobras, Lotus 30s sports racers, Genie sports racers, Lola GT MKVIs, GT40s, Sunbeam Tigers, Griffiths, and probably others less known. 260 and 289 engines were "factory" raced by Shelby American 1962-64 in 1-4V (road racing), 4-2V (road and drag racing), and 2-4V(drag racing) in their team cars at one time or another.
Ford provided Experimental High Performance 260 (XHP-260) engines, High Performance 260 (HP260, which were almost mass production ready), and High Performance 289 engines to multiple sports car or race car builders. All the latest greatest seemed to always get to Shelby American first for the 260/289 engines. Rootes bought some HP289 engines through Shelby American for their race team but the 260 2V engines used in production Tigers were somewhat different than used in Fairlanes and got to Rootes through Ford's industrial engine department.
One Experimental High Performance 260 engine has an interesting history. It was started and numbered as the second one Ford engineers assembled but got remarked as the fourth with serial number XHP-260-4.
The short outline of its history.
• Removed from early Cobra after retail sale. The car received a production HP289 engine in 1963 to replace it.
• Installed in a 1955 Ferrari 500 Mondail Scagletti Spyder 0506MD late 1963 early 1964 time frame.
• Raced in Ferrari, 1964-65, driver Tom Schelble at Road America, Elkhart Lake.
• Ferrari sold, 1965.
• Ferrari sold, 1993 (bank sale/repossession).
• Engine XHP-260-4 removed from the Ferrari, 1993 stored until 2013. (Somebody I know talked the car owner into removing the Ford engine and putting a correct 1955 Ferrari engine back in the car, which was done.)
• At my suggestion, 2013 carefully dismantled, gently cleaned (as to not remove paints and other color codes), and a reverse engineering study undertaken including hundreds of detailed close up shots of features and measurements of all critical dimensions. Reassembled with new old stock gaskets and displayed at a national car event.
• Currently stored.
While it is true that standard Fairlanes, Comets, and Mustangs with any model year of HP289 didn't get factory fitted with aluminum 4V intakes the Shelby Mustangs, made on Ford's behalf and sold and serviced through Ford dealers, 1965-67 did. Except for very early 1965 MUSTANG GT350s Ford installed the various 1965-67 issues of COBRA 4V high rise intake manifolds on the engines going into Mustang chassis headed off partially assembled to become Shelby cars. Such topics are covered pretty well on the various websites for Mustang and Shelby Mustang fans.
awesome info. I have a 1/2 "letter cobra intake and a cast oil pan.
That’s about what the Chevy engines worth!
You asked for it.
Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Separate names with a comma.