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Projects First attempt AV8 29 roadster! many questions

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by orangeamcs, Jun 11, 2014.

  1. orangeamcs
    Joined: Jun 23, 2007
    Posts: 600

    orangeamcs
    Member

    After dreaming for the last few years of getting a hot rod I finally purchased a basically stock 29 roadster with a banger from the classifieds here from Joe Bruns. Cant remember his screen name since this all went down in the time the HAMB had its remodel. Anyhow the deal went easily and soon I had a car that travelled across the country from Oregon to Maryland. Worst part was they lost the keys killed the battery and left the gas on. Oh well First project was to get the non running issue resolved.

    This was easily remedied and I ordered a new ignition from Brattons which is about 20 minutes from my home and 5 from one of my best friends houses. Car is on road tagged insured and a lot of fun.

    Original plan was dual updrafts Brumfield head and FS ignition distributor. This was the extent of the performance. The other issue to address is the transmission which seems to whine more than I think it should and make other assorted noises if I push the car a little bit. Options were/are t5 conversion from crazydaddyo or a 39 v8 trans with adapter from clings. I have two v8 transmissions already that I got in a deal from my uncle with two disassembled flatheads one from a 48 ford passenger car and the other from a early 50s something or other. Plan was to slowly assemble one of those and swap at a later date.

    This brings me to my current dilemma. Tried to buy a head from brumfield the other day and a dual updraft intake from soss. Both out of stock or production for sometime to come. Finally added up the cost and though the heck with this banger neat and all but power to dollar ratio of a v8 is way more economical. So tommoro I am going to go pick up a complete v8 and trans still assembled. I am going AV8...wanted to play with banger maybe ill keep it around for another project but this car is going V8 now. As now I have three flatheads and three transmissions.

    Enough of the back story. I have searched a lot in the past few days and even read "THE BOOK" but have many questions still.

    First order of business is locating the engine in the frame. Making the motor mounts or purchasing seems easy enough. I would like to run stock hood and sides on this and not cut the firewall. This can be accomplished from what I have read with a crab distributor and a fan set on a idler made from a early V8 generator.This is correct as far as I know thus far?

    Can I accomplish this by using the stock location of my stock A torque tube to get the location for the trans cross member and the front motor mounts?

    Next question is options for trans crossmember?

    Looked at Tardels 32 crossmember for the A frame seams pricey and I have not checked to see if it is available, also you have to use a expensive set of 32 pedals with it from what I can tell?

    Next option is some sort of homemade arrangement that will most likely look to modern for the tastes of this board and actually my tastes as they have been evolving further back in time with every minute I spend on this board?

    The best option from what I can tell is a F1 crossmember and pedals. Whittle it down and slide it in place looks easy enough from what I can see in other peoples builds. This leads me to the dilemma of what year pickups did these pedals and crossmembers come in? I visually know what they look like but have no idea of the production years.

    This should get me started I would like to collect all or most of the parts I will need so I can minimize the downtime of this car which I drive every minute I get the chance to!

    I will have plenty more questions to come but am out of time to type more.
     

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    Fairlane500 likes this.
  2. jailhousebob
    Joined: Jun 18, 2009
    Posts: 587

    jailhousebob
    Member
    from Illinois

    A few questions.Are you planning on running the stock rear with the v/8? And do you want to use an unsplit wishbone? THE TARDELL K member works great and you can run a set of 33/34 pedals.If you are patient you can find a set for $50.00 or less .This will give you the provision to mount an unsplit wishbone although modification of the wishbone will be necessary no matter which one you get( THERE IS SOME MISINFORMATION ON THIS IN THE BOOK). The 48 to 52 unit works well but no wishbone mount.Easy enough to fab if you have the ability
     
    Lucky 222 likes this.
  3. Great looking car,I really like the latter model wire wheels.

    Just needs to be lowered a little.HRP

    [​IMG]
     
  4. jailhousebob
    Joined: Jun 18, 2009
    Posts: 587

    jailhousebob
    Member
    from Illinois

    Sorry,the above got posted before I could finish.Anyway,you basically need to locate the engine and make everything else fit.I used a 39 Lincoln wishbone which afforded lots of pan clearance but I had to move the K back an inch.I used a 40 merc rear with shortened tube and custom driveshaft hung of a T spring and TT hangers.Again,once you get the engine in position you can state mocking things up to see what has to be done.Take your time and take a lot of measurements and try to think ahead.Have fun,bob IMG_20140531_142640.jpg
     
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  5. Ole don
    Joined: Dec 16, 2005
    Posts: 2,915

    Ole don
    Member

    I love the rubber rake, its KILLER!
     
  6. orangeamcs
    Joined: Jun 23, 2007
    Posts: 600

    orangeamcs
    Member

    Have to give then previous owner credit for the rubber rake. It came with the wheel and tire setup on it and a reverse eye front spring installed. I have a reverse eye main leaf on way for rear and will pull a few leaves out of the pack when I put it back in.
     
  7. ESGEE
    Joined: Feb 25, 2013
    Posts: 606

    ESGEE
    Member
    from Sweden

    Looks like a great Project. Like Hotrodprimer, just lower it some and drive it as it is...
     
  8. dad-bud
    Joined: Aug 22, 2009
    Posts: 3,885

    dad-bud
    Member

  9. I have a question about your statement "and a fan set on a idler made from a early V8 generator". Why don't you just run the earlier generator (be sure to get the two brush one)?

    Charlie Stephens
     
  10. orangeamcs
    Joined: Jun 23, 2007
    Posts: 600

    orangeamcs
    Member

    Its being driven two to three times a week while I collect what I need to do the swap. Also a friend called me today that has a large hobby shop that most real shops would love to have and said if I help him w his 5 window he will help me do mine at his shop. Sounds like a good trade to me. Basically get to learn while building two cars

    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
    DallasVW171 and Markmonty like this.
  11. This is GOLD!!
     
  12. orangeamcs
    Joined: Jun 23, 2007
    Posts: 600

    orangeamcs
    Member

    Met up w a recent new friend that has a bunch of early ford stuff that's helping me with a bunch of stuff and apparently has a 40 year collection of early ford stuff.
    Went to the junkyard today and got a 48 ford f1 crossmember and pedals. Steering box was already gone though. Then I found what was left of a 40 or 41 ford and got the front brakes wishbone and spindles out of it, and the mangled front axle but that was free I guess.. Also ordered some mounts from vern tardel for the motor.

    Have a line or two on some stock model A frames locally but I am always looking for another source if these fall through. Will be busy collecting parts for now!

    Will post pics of the recent parts
     
  13. snot275
    Joined: May 11, 2012
    Posts: 131

    snot275
    Member

    Pull your rear end, mock it up in your new frame, mock up your new crossmember, put then motor and trans in, bolt the trans to rear end, bolt on the front motor mounts, tack everything, remove. It'll take a day with one other dude. The stock model A rear (and 32 rear) will locate your trans mount perfectly. Yes, you'll have to clearance the firewall for the oil fill/breather on the intake but that's as simple as a ball peen hammer and fine tuned planish in with a hammer and dolly. Really, it's that's easy dude.
    The other way to go is to use un split 32 bones to locate your trans mount. That's quick and easy and works the same way as the aforementioned. The only thing I'm not sure about is if it will work with the x-member you're using. I used a 32....
     
  14. snot275
    Joined: May 11, 2012
    Posts: 131

    snot275
    Member

    And don't forget your left and right centering of the motor. It's a no brainer but I almost forgot to check that bit remembered that measurement at the last minute. Haha
     
  15. orangeamcs
    Joined: Jun 23, 2007
    Posts: 600

    orangeamcs
    Member

    Snot.275 thanks for the advice. Forms everything I have read I assumed the stock A rear and torque tube would locate motor and trans mount positions but wasn't sure. Thank you for confirming it.

    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  16. orangeamcs
    Joined: Jun 23, 2007
    Posts: 600

    orangeamcs
    Member

    Not much to report still collecting parts slowly.

    One big question that I have is that I need valvetrain for a 8ba motor I will probably use. Was thinking of getting chevy valves from summit racing but I am unsure what to order. Can anyone point me in the right direction. I would use the original parts but they were missing when I bought this motor in a box.
     
  17. walter
    Joined: Nov 4, 2007
    Posts: 597

    walter
    Member

    Pick a good quality machine shop that knows something about a flathead and seek their advise. This will save money in the end. Make some early decisions on what you want for performance. Mild is expensive and it goes up quickly from there.
    Walter
     
  18. trucker1
    Joined: Sep 6, 2011
    Posts: 67

    trucker1
    Member

    My coupe is set up with a Tardel K member, 8BA, and a Model A steering box, with a 32 wishbone and 34 axle. I'm using a 41 pedal mount and I shortened the column 4 inches and fitted a 50 p-u mast jacket to clear my REDS headers.
     
  19. snot275
    Joined: May 11, 2012
    Posts: 131

    snot275
    Member

    Call H&H Flatheads. Those guys are super helpful even if you're not buying from them. Experts dude.
     
  20. orangeamcs
    Joined: Jun 23, 2007
    Posts: 600

    orangeamcs
    Member

    I am kind of at a stand still at the moment. Searching for parts and found a rolling chassis but the friend who has a shop i am going to use is in Alaska for the next three weeks. With that being said the plan is to build my chassis in his shop while he does his body for his 31 coupe.. We also found a 29 firewall in his stash I can use for mockup. I am just trying to keep chipping away at things while I get the roller lined up, and shop back open. May still use my existing frame or who knows I could finish the other chassis and maybe find a body for that. So many options. In the meantime i am piecing together a titled 68 triumph w a 750 5 speed motor to sell for extra funds. If I had as many model early ford parts as bike parts Id be set.. Its a whole new adventure and learning curve that I am loving every minute of.
    matt
     
  21. hydroshawn
    Joined: May 27, 2006
    Posts: 335

    hydroshawn
    Member
    from Brenham,Tx

    Well I guess I'll throw in my 5 cents as well...
    I spent about 5-7 years collecting parts when I realized I wasn't reading enough. I picked up a few post war hot rod annuals & it all came clear!!

    I went threw and started asking questions & reading blogs from guys even from other countries because they are more anal about what is "traditional" more than Americans!!

    I went with my stock A rear end (for now until I get my late model torque cut down) then went with an F1 rear tranny mount and cross member with a 39 3 three speed, THEN bolted up and aligned the motor & motor mounts. It is backwards to some of these guys but it all lined right up!! I did notice that an early flathead fits better than a late model.

    the next on my list is the steering box. it is also an F1 that I am modifying the frame for.

    front end is 36 with reverse eye front spring.

    That is about where I am now.
     
  22. orangeamcs
    Joined: Jun 23, 2007
    Posts: 600

    orangeamcs
    Member

    Getting ready to put a flathead in the chassis this coming weekend. So far I have the a frame with the 33 front suspension in it. The rear is stock model a and its attached to my 39 transmission. Cant get my picture to load. Anyhow once motor is bolted to trans and front mounts are clamped into place ill start positioning the f1 crossmember. Plan is to bolt it all in and then rivet later.

    The one question I have is, do I have to make sure the engine is at a certain angle on is it as simple as line up the f1 crossmember with the top of the frame and line up the tardel engine mounts with the top of the frame?

    Will it matter at all if the rear doesn't have the reverse eye spring or leafs removed from the spring yet?

    Once all this is positioned, I can start the wishbone lengthening and mount fabrication.

    Anyone have any good mount pictures for the ball?

    Also is there any advantages or disadvantages to making the wishbone longer to the point where the ball mounts directly under the crossmember or behind it?

    Its amazing how just a few months ago I was clueless about all of this and now after watching this forum and applying what I have read to looking at cars at shows its all making sense now!!!

    Ill try to load some pictures later. Best of all Im still driving the roadster while this chassis is going together
     
  23. hotrod-40
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 840

    hotrod-40
    Member

    You said you are using a 33 wish bone? Just leave it stock. It will put the ball right in front of your F-1 cross member. Cut the ball cup out of an X member and bracket it to your F-1 cross member. Works perfect. Make sure you do lots of measuring on your fire wall clearance, its tight. I cut down my breather and modified and A cap so I did not have to modify the firewall.
     
  24. hotrod-40
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 840

    hotrod-40
    Member

  25. orangeamcs
    Joined: Jun 23, 2007
    Posts: 600

    orangeamcs
    Member

    Hot rod 40 do you have a good picture of your breather
     
  26. orangeamcs
    Joined: Jun 23, 2007
    Posts: 600

    orangeamcs
    Member

    Here is the chassis so far. Not much to look at but it is progress
     

    Attached Files:

  27. Awesome. I like the whole first page, and the last five months of posts. A hell of a lot more progress then me. What a cool car. Enjoyed while built. Nice !!! You get it all. Nice pile of parts sir. Good luck!
     
  28. orangeamcs
    Joined: Jun 23, 2007
    Posts: 600

    orangeamcs
    Member

    Have engine setting in place. Does intake manifold surface need to be parallel with tops of frame rail? Trying to get the f1 crossmember in place and it looks like I need to remove stock center crossmember or clearance it. Is that right?
     

    Attached Files:

  29. von Dyck
    Joined: Apr 12, 2007
    Posts: 678

    von Dyck
    Member

    Once the roadster is assembled, the carburetor flange should (ideally) sit level so that the fuel level in the float bowl feeds the main jets properly. If you find it off-level slightly, its not too big a deal. The four 94's on my Olds lean slightly forward and she runs just fine.
    The '32 to '34 front axle with reversed spring eyes along with the "rubber" rake provides a a nice driveable rake for the '28-'29 roadster without affecting your caster setting.
     
  30. orangeamcs
    Joined: Jun 23, 2007
    Posts: 600

    orangeamcs
    Member

    I understand the level carburetor flange theory. Its just that I cant very well get my trans crossmember in the right spot if I don't know the relation of the engine to frame rails. This car will have rubber rake and a dropped axle, but it looks like most people build there av8 with just lining up the crossmember and engine mounts just under top of frame rail and don't worry about rubber rake and stance etc. From what I can figure the carb flange is parallel to the engine block. Maybe I am being neurotic about this part of the build but I feel this is what everything else will be based off of.

    Matt
     

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