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Hot Rods final drive ratio for burnouts :)

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Gordon Reed, Sep 2, 2019.

  1. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 16,250

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    I am not big on burnouts, because I am the one buying the tires, but 5.13 gears are how I get my crappy Falcon out of the hole, while appearing to tear the fabric of space and time, with an inline-6.

    I might get caught by the next stop light, bur I do see a lot of drooping jaws.
     
    lothiandon1940 and Deuces like this.
  2. Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,892

    Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Member

    I find it hard to believe that some of you old guys didn't really enjoy lighting up your tires when you were 18!?

    At 16 (1976), my first car was a 55 Chevy 2 dr. post. Small block, Muncie and 12 bolt posi (all swapped over from a 66 Chevelle) with 5:13's! (if I chose to) It would absolutely roast the tires, right through the traction bars. I had a set up like 6sally6 mentioned; a washer bottle and pump pulled from an auto shop junker, mounted in the trunk with a 'T' and vacuum lines routed to the tops of the wheel wells. Dash toggle switch turned out the bleach water on select occasions.

    Back in the 70's, burnouts were very common. You could expect to see (or at least hear) a really good burnout on the streets several times a week. Maybe even a good "two story burnout". On a weekend cruise night it was wide open.

    About 6 months ago I was relating to my Wife that burnouts are pretty much a thing of the past. I told her I miss a good burnout. She said you're right, you never see burnouts and those were always fun to see. It wasn't a week later, we were walking out of a store and someone behind the building bombed out a loud tire smoker. We couldn't see it, but as we got to the car awhile later you could smell the burned rubber coming our way and we were both saying ahh there it is!

    Burnouts are stupid and ridiculous. Well, yeah, that's what makes them so fun! They were always a "crowd pleaser" like when you left the drive-in or a party. They're right up there with lighting off M-80's when nobody expects it.
     
  3. Flat Six Fix
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 921

    Flat Six Fix
    Member

    How bout in the "Poleece" Station parking lot Jim....lol
     
  4. Holy crap!!!
    Isn’t that every hot Rodders expectation,,,
    Enough power to flip the car over?
    Someone has a semi famous quote about that but it’s escaping me right now
     
    Sandgroper likes this.
  5. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 2,157

    GearheadsQCE
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  6. You know I did until I had to buy my first set of tires.
     
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  7. Mike
    Joined: Mar 5, 2001
    Posts: 3,432

    Mike
    Member

    On the race track or on the street, spinning tires equal wasted energy. Do you dispute that?
     
  8. upload_2019-9-5_9-20-15.png

    Old guys? At 37 I'd say I am far from an old guy.
    Even as a little kid I didn't understand or like smoke shows, burn outs, or doughnuts.
    With my of my family's deep involvement in auto racing I always found it far more impressive/productive to make a car hook.

    Tire smoke is wasted power.

    However it is impressive to see cars that are built to hook the power light the tries under power!
    Something like a sprint car, D.I.R.T. modified, or dirt late model haze the tires.
    Yes you read that right these modern cars can haze the tires on dirt.

    When you have a car that can hook and do this...
    upload_2019-9-5_12-23-24.png

    but it has so much power it can also haze the tires under power that is impressive.
    upload_2019-9-5_12-24-29.png


    Note I was in the pits at Hartsville/Darlington 1/2 mile dirt when I was three months old, and at my first Winston Cup race by my first birthday.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
  9. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 5,540

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Smoke is just the wasted by-product, the hot tire coating applied over many years under the back of my 442 means it will never rust, neither will my tail pipes or the back side of the rear bumper, the inner and outer wheel houses, sides of the fuel tank, trunk drops, etc.. :cool:
     
    INVISIBLEKID and loudbang like this.
  10. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 1,770

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    6- series rear gear helps a bit
     
  11. chevy57dude
    Joined: Dec 10, 2007
    Posts: 5,040

    chevy57dude
    Member

  12. afaulk
    Joined: Jul 20, 2011
    Posts: 1,187

    afaulk
    Member

    I didn't read every reply to your question but if it wasn't mentioned, the torque converter is a very important piece. A torque converter with a stall speed that matches your engines torque peak will really make a difference in the way your car performs.
     
    Cosmo50 and Gordon Reed like this.
  13. Gordon Reed
    Joined: Aug 3, 2019
    Posts: 16

    Gordon Reed

    i just installed a comp can xe 268, and a lot of reviews say that a 2000 stall converter would help. do you agree?


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  14. slowmotion
    Joined: Nov 21, 2011
    Posts: 3,062

    slowmotion
    Member

    For crysakes you'd think no one was ever 18yrs old on here. All this 'wasted power' etc, etc wise speak.. Not shit. Let the kid have a little fun. Any 18 yr old that has a '65 Chevelle (let alone even knows what one is) and wants to better it, is OK in my book. If he gets it to where he can light 'em up eventually, he just might be on his way to being a hotrodder...
     
  15. 427 sleeper
    Joined: Mar 8, 2017
    Posts: 666

    427 sleeper
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    61Cruiser, loudbang and Deuces like this.
  16. Maybe more than 2000 rpm.

    What you need is to make torque and multiply it. A non defective engine that’s in good tune will make torque and the cam dictates at what RPM that will begin and what RPM will create max torque.
    The gear ratio in the transmission and the rear end gear ratio become simple multiplication factors in a torque equation. For example say your engine makes 300 range for torque. Your 1st gear power glide has 1.7 ratio and your rear gear is 2.7. Calculated that 300 (1.7x2.7) 1377 torque at the axle. If you switched to a th350 with 2.7 fist gear and went to a 3.4 rear gear the equation looks like this 300 x (2.7 x 3.4) or 2754 torque to the axles. Now you need to figure your tire radius and go one step further to figure out the torque to the rubber. It’s expressed in Feet so a 24” tire with 12” radius will net the same torque numbers. Taller tires with a greater than 12” radius would reduce the torque numbers.

    Keep in mind this will also change the rpm requirement to reach any mph. It’s exactly the same principles as putting a cheater pipe on a ratchet.

    Back to your converter,,, the converter stalls the grabbing if the transmission to allow the engine to reach an rpm where torque production begins.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
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  17. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 43,677

    squirrel
    Member

    And the torque converter also multiplies torque, under conditions such as when you are trying to get a burnout started. . Be sure to put that number in your equation.

    Sent from my Trimline
     
  18. jaw22w
    Joined: Mar 2, 2013
    Posts: 861

    jaw22w
    Member
    from Indiana

    I have 4 buddies nearby. We are constantly marking each others territory. Been a joke for years. If you go to see him and if he isn't home, (or maybe if he is home) you leave two big black marks in front of his house. I like to have at least one set of stripes in front of my house at all times.....even if I have to do it myself. We live in the boonies. Couldn't do that in town. (I'm almost 70, so are the other 4). The county killed our fun this year with a new, heavy chip and seal.
     
    fourspeedwagon, 61Cruiser and wraymen like this.
  19. Will you still feel the same way if he hurts himself or others doings this? What if someone the same age hurts you or a loved one, or damages your car at a show, would you still view it as an 18 year old just having fun with and old car?

    Please don't think I am discouraging @Gordon Reed from having an old car or having fun with it.
    I am trying get him to do something constitutive with it.

    You have to remember the general pubic sees no difference between my period correct 53 Chevrolet, my bosses restomod 67 Corvette, or a lifted Diesel 4x4 truck. So if they will not see an "18 year old just having fun" they see everyone with an old or high performance car misbehaving. As such we end up with things like the California exhaust act that many of you on this thread voice your displeasure with a few months ago.

    @Hnstray made a good point earlier about damaging equipment.
    About 25 maybe 30 years ago one of the locals in town bought a super clean RS/SS Camaro, he had a strong 350 built 8" Ford rear ect...

    He couldn't leave a show, cruise, or parking lot with out putting on a smoke show.
    He tore up the 8" Ford which he replaced with a 9" Ford he hurt and repaired.
    There was a never ending amount of valve train issues.
    Then about 10 years ago he was complaining the rear window was leaking. All the smoke shows had hurt the unibody.
    The last time I saw the car it was on jack stands with the rear end out of it.
    The car hadn't been hit but you could see the quarters were buckled and the doors no longer fit correctly.

    Note the man in the example was in his mid 20's when he bought the car and was early to mid 40's when he had to park the car.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
  20. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 3,895

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    It would help. Stall speed is a difficult thing to get a grasp on. Technically, the stall speed is the highest RPM the engine can reach, in gear, holding the car back with the brakes. If you're brakes are strong enough, or the power is low enough, you can hold the car still with the throttle pedal pushed to the floor, and hold it there. Many cars won't allow this, the car will drive through the brakes at some point. So like I said, the stall speed is the highest speed the engine will attain being held back by the brakes. If the car drives through the brakes, the stall speed is the point before that occurs. (or you can use blocks in front of the wheels or restrain the car somehow if the brakes won't hold it).

    As 31Vicky posted above, a higher stall speed converter will allow the engine to reach a higher RPM, where the engine is producing more power. With the aftermarket cam you installed, the power band of the engine has been moved up, so the converter allowing the engine to spin faster get's it up into the RPM range where the power is being produced.

    Note that the advertised stall speed does not mean that the converter will stall at exactly that speed in your car. Due to car to car differences it is impossible to mark a converter with the exact stall speed for every car, the manufacturers rate the stall speed with a set of standards, and those standards are probably not going to be exactly the same as your car. But it helps make a decision on which converter to purchase. The "looser" the converter, the higher the stall speed, the hotter the trans oil will run, because the oil is exposed to high shear forces whenever the converter is slipping. If you're only going 1/4 mile at a time it's not that big of a deal. If you're using the car to drive on the highway, it is. Overheated oil is the biggest killer of automatic transmissions. Well on street duty cars anyway. So, a higher stall speed will really help get the car rolling from a stop, especially if it matches up well with the cam & the intake. But too high and it will cause over heating on the road. Keep the stall speed below your typical highway RPM. For example, if your RPM's at cruising speed down the hwy are around 2600, you want the stall speed below that, so that the converter is not slipping and generating heat while you're tooling down the highway. And add an extra trans cooler, that will help keep the oil cool.

    And one more thing, when testing your car to see what the stall speed is, don't stall it for more than a few seconds at a time, and then shift the trans to neutral and allow the trans pump to pump fresh oil to the converter and pump the hot oil out to the cooler, to avoid overheating it while doing the testing.

    Hope that helps, here's more info you may like:
    http://www.hughesperformance.com/tc-stall/
    https://www.hotrod.com/articles/how-much-torque-converter-stall-speed/
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
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  21. liliysdad
    Joined: Apr 1, 2013
    Posts: 33

    liliysdad
    Member
    from Oklahoma


    20 years of fun sounds like a pretty good trade.

    Buncha sisters on here.
     
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  22. 26Troadster
    Joined: Nov 20, 2010
    Posts: 507

    26Troadster
    Member
    from Texas

    i've been known to boil a few tires in my life time.
     
  23. The torque multiplication phase, to me anyways, seems to be a variable and lasts very very briefly. I’ve not been able to include it into an equation. Even though it happens I just ignore that multiplication factor and treat it like a bonus feather in the cap I get to have for half a second or so.

    If you’ve got time to explain how to factor that in I’d be interested for sure
     
    squirrel likes this.
  24. 20 years of fun? How about the gaps in that 20 years


    20 years of fun? So the big gaps in those 20 years don't count?
    There were several times the car was down for weeks, months, and an entire summer. Think about all the events he had to miss or be without his car. Do not sound like fun to me.
    There is nothing cool or fun about having to tell people "I broke it again." when someone asks "Where is your car?"
    Having to pull and replace rears, pull cylinder heads and replace valve springs/push rods multiple times, because of dipshitness sounds like fun?
    What about the current state of the car (The state it has been in for about eight years) which is totally undriveable because of the damage to the unibody. As I said he bought the car 25 or 30 years ago, so I would estimate of that time a 1/4 of the time he has owned it has been down.

    If I understand you correctly you think discouraging potentially dangerous, definitely reckless and illegal behavior and trying to encourage him to do something constitutive like legitimate makes myself and others "sissys"

    That is something no one has mentioned burnout out are illegal behavior.
    In New York State they are disorderly conduct which is a class C misdemeanor that carries up to 30 days in jail and up to a $500 fine.
     
  25. liliysdad
    Joined: Apr 1, 2013
    Posts: 33

    liliysdad
    Member
    from Oklahoma

    Yeah......thanks. You illustrated my point better than I ever could have.
     
  26. 427 sleeper
    Joined: Mar 8, 2017
    Posts: 666

    427 sleeper
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Is this the HAMB, or is it Sunday School??? WTF! The young man came HERE, a place for EXCELLENT gearhead advice! Advice given by some of the most top notch Gearheads on the planet, and most of the posts are scolding him for wanting to do what most Gearheads do... Raise a little Hell once in a while!!! We all should be helping the Lad achieve his goal, while teaching him at the same time, not spanking him for what might possibly happen! He doesn't strike me as a typical 18 year old, he seems to have some sense about him. After all, he did come HERE for advice on how to make a 65 Chevelle ( not a typical 18 year olds car ) perform the way it should! Let's help him and leave the parental advice for his parents to give!
     
  27. lumpy 63
    Joined: Aug 2, 2010
    Posts: 981

    lumpy 63
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ok thats it , heading for the kitchen to make some pop corn . Be back in a jiffy:D
     
  28. chevy57dude
    Joined: Dec 10, 2007
    Posts: 5,040

    chevy57dude
    Member

  29. liliysdad
    Joined: Apr 1, 2013
    Posts: 33

    liliysdad
    Member
    from Oklahoma

    That's a misdemeanor, there, fella. A dangerous, dangerous misdemeanor. How dare you have fun!!!
     
  30. I like an empty parking lot for a good burnout.
    Private property.

    Last few weeks we’ve been doing burnouts and 100 launches in my driveway! Sets the kitchen glass break sensor off lmao
     
    bonneville bones and 427 sleeper like this.

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