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**February is for Bangin'** Feb 2013 Banger Meet

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Crazydaddyo, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,133

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    I like to see minimum 3/32 . Prefer 1/8".
    If you think it is expensive to re dress a grinding wheel, try replacing a broken crank.

    .
     
  2. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 950

    johnneilson
    Member

    I guess the answer is to find someone who grinds larger cranks.

    I seem to recall that the radius size only works up to some certain point. Meaning that if you tried to put in a .50 rad, the crank would still break because the journal is too small.

    Try explaining to a "plastics design engineer" that there is no difference between a theoretical sharp feature and one with a .003 rad. I hear that he is now selling furniture.

    J
     
  3. Well, as far as I'm concerned, for what ever its worth. The cranks under discussion seem to break at # 4 throw. I don't think there is any information on crank breakage regarding stock undrilled cranks.A few years back I did have a conversation with one of the brothers that had a very light weight car that ran 104 in the quarter in the bad air at Palmdale. He said they had several new A cranks and ran them unmodified. Don't recall how often they swapped out the crank. Little car's engine was very sophisticated, have photos some where.
    I also remember a story about a racer that had some sort of radical over head on an A block. The story on the car/engine stated that he replaced the stock crank and rods after every race and he was successful enough to afford to do it. probably cost $15 or $20 bucks in the 30's.
     
  4. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Costs the crank grinder!!!!!???

    WHAT'S A BROKEN CRANK COST????

    Your friend is an asshole!
     
  5. Dema Elgin of Elgin Engineering, told us, years ago, that if you're going to run your Ford bangers much over 3000 r.p.m., you're eventually going to brake cranks. He said that the harmonics are such that that cranks are going to crack and break near the the rear main and flange. He showed us film footage, taken with a high speed camera showing, at speed, the crank wobbling like a piece of pasta. His solution: Put a harmonic damper on the nose of the crank. I had broken two cranks before I took Elgin's advice; and had Jay Steele, Taylor Engine, put one of his modified SBC dampers on the engine he built for me. That was 7 years almost 40 race weekends ago. My redline is about 5000 r.p.m.:)
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Cool! There's a lot of banger equipment to make the car scoot!


     
  7. T__N__A
    Joined: May 31, 2006
    Posts: 336

    T__N__A
    Member


    Old Dawg, are you running a drilled crank for full oil pressure or a non drilled crank? very cool race car.
     
  8. The engine is a Model B. But, that's about where it ends. It has a full pressure, dry sump, lubrication system; with a five main billet crank ($$$$). Don't ask me how it's done; as I consider it highly proprietory. But, as I say, it has a SBC harmonic damper on the nose of the crank:cool:

    JK
     
  9. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,133

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    O.D.,
    Are the extra 2 main bearings being used?
    If so, is it a girdle, or were webs built into the block?

    Thanks.

    .
     
  10. Lazlobassett
    Joined: Apr 12, 2010
    Posts: 478

    Lazlobassett
    Member

    Hey JP Bill,

    That motor of yours is about the bestest looking thing that doesn't need panties or a bra!

    I'm or was running a FSI on my B with the ole cragar but it snapped the crank before we really made friends. the crank was offset cut to stroke it and had swaged on counterweights. I'm pretty new at bangers ( aside from bangers n mash thanks to ex Girlfiend who was English) and didn't understand why it wouldn't turn by hand, the motor that is. The crank went at #4 rod journel but I guess it was bent to begin with. It was ebay # 260867418568 which I believe will still come up, Sold by Vickyman31, Ken Miller out of Chatanooga Tn.
    Be wary. head has extensive repairs, loads of troubles but i'm not going there, done and done past, still hurts hence the reference, 6100 + travel isn't a casual thing for me.

    I've done a complete rebuild, bored it to .100, Scat crank, H beam rods, custom JP pistons, has Briely A1? cam. Worked tonight on the rear main seal holder, no new pics but machined a few blanks waitng for the Beige rear main seal to arrive, it is supposed to be narrower that the usual blue one. This little project has been fun, now I hope it works out and I don't have to buy the kit.

    I'm dumb enough that if I do fail, I will post that, but I think it will work out. The new castings have more meat, I wish I had built up the inner area more but it will work. I find that my guess n go machine method isn't the best. With the castings I find it difficult to begin and make/find a surface to go from. Tonight I did one and the inner and outer cuts were not quite concentric, it isn't ruined as ther is some " meat" to work with but on the next I gave it more thought and came up with a better method to get it right.

    I have had some struggle with getting it set on the rotary table properly. Especially when the casting is totally raw, figuring out how to start. Seems once there is a surface to work off of it all gets easier.

    I have gone like this, clean the casting up on a belt sander as best possible, then pick a surface, clamp down and have a go at it.

    AM I missing something? stupid? ( yea, I am that I know) any help from experienced actual machinists or other folks like me but farther down the road?

    New pix tomorrow !~

    Cheers! ( and happy days! )

    Laz
     
  11. kirby1374
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 427

    kirby1374
    Member

    I think he said don't ask......LOL
     
  12. Oh, those two extra mains are being used; but, you'd have to ask Jay Steel how we did it. He had been known to put extra webs in blocks. But, as you well know, Jay's been at room temp for quite a while. Suffice to say, it is a well built reliable engine (albeit expensive). For the money I put in to it, I probably could have had an "Offy". However, an "Offy" would not be able do the job that I demand of this engine.

    We had one problem right out of the box (there were others). The engine is sleeved (we have close to 220 cubes), and someone didn't seat number three completely. We took it to Monterey; and within three turns during practice, steam was coming out of the left side of the cowl. We got it back to Jays shop and apart. The guys at the shop were scratching their heads. Looking at the headgasket, I could see that it wasn't blown. It had been burned under on number three. Rubbing my fingernail along the block and sleeve, I could feel that the sleeve had dropped; and seated itself. Jay decked the block (now we have close to 13-1 compression). We put it back together; and it's been running great, ever since:)

    There are guys around that know how we did all of it; but, so far, being sworn to silence, they have not talked. They know that I know who they are;)

    JK:D
     
  13. Just joined the banger group, though can't say I'm actually "building one". My '20 T fairground racer was built at least 63 years ago. Seems the latest part on the car is about '38 or '39 -- the hairpins from a Ford tractor.

    I'm adding lights, bulb horn, spare tire/mount to the rear, trunk and perhaps a cowl. Also plan to lower the steering column a little and tilt the wooden bucket seats back a little bit.

    Planning on running 12-volt for the lights -- the typical driver around here is a complete idiot so visibility is kind of important. But I'm keeping the hand-crank -- but no starter or generator -- and will just slow-trickle when needing more juice. The typical generator spot on the block is occupied by an oil pump.

    I've driven the car once and it was more car than I anticipated -- she'll fly!
     

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  14. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,204

    RussTee
    Member

    Buckelew that looks like a real handful of fun do you plan to use it on the street? Could you give us some more pics and details of parts I see a Rajo Warford Dayton wheels dropped suspension what else a build of that age may have all kinds of goodies?
    Rusty
     
  15. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,133

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    Thanks O.D. !!!!!!!!! Just the info I needed. ;)

    .
     
  16. [​IMG]

    Yes this car will be street-driven -- I don't believe in putting it up if it's drivable. The challenge is making it street-legal, but it's coming along.

    The build;

    - Springs behind axles, lowering frame and improving front/back balance
    - 1920 Ford block, drilled crank and full pressure lubrication
    - RAJO Model 'C' OHV head with RAJO intake/exhaust manifold, circa 1925
    - Cast-iron Warford auxiliary transmission, circa 1925
    - Ford Model 'B' carb
    - Bosch magneto from 1930s heavy equipment/tractor
    - Ruxstell transaxle, early 1922
    - Hayes wirewheels, demountable clinchers, early 1920s
    - stock brass radiator, 1913-1915
    - 1913-1915 hogs head
    - Early Stewart speedo, driven by front wheel gear
    - oil pressure gauge
    - full-lubrication with oil pump to top of RAJO head
    - speedster buckboard body
    - stock 1920 frame
    - Ford 2N or 9N tractor hairpins
    - stock steering

    [​IMG]

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    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  17. awesome little t
    wish i had some of those 9n radius rods
    tk
     
  18. wow nice little T, looks great fun!
     
  19. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,204

    RussTee
    Member

    Buckelew interesting car certainly well built would now be interested in the oil pump and how it was fitted rare to see a feed to the overhead gear on an older build way it should be though nice speedster.
     
  20. BCCHOPIT
    Joined: Aug 10, 2008
    Posts: 2,588

    BCCHOPIT
    Member

    Thanks for taking the time to post your info... Bill



     
  21. If I ever tear it down I'll put it on here.

     
  22. Thank you, now I know at least 1 person read it! One other thing I found while rereading my "notes" we had 22 degrees at 1000 RPM with FS springs and stock weights. Gets there fast, 8.5 or 9 at 600 then 22 at 1000!
     
  23. Does anyone run their banger without a fan? Sure would like to use my nice T radiator in my T-on-A chassis, but I'd have to really cut up the upper tank to clear the fan (a-la Hotrodfil)...curious if I could get by without one...
     
  24. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,133

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    I run my B with an electric fan here in Socal. It is controlled by a switch on the dash. I only need the fan when I'm stuck in bumper to bumper traffic. My system only holds 2 gallons of coolant. As long as I'm moving, the temp stays good. Even in 100+ deg. temps.

    .
     
  25. joemac05
    Joined: Jul 29, 2006
    Posts: 288

    joemac05
    Member

    I read it and I thank you very much for posting the info. My 28 is stock but has a mallory distributer. Still trying to decide what to run for a timing curve. :) Runs pretty good with what it has though.
     
  26. T__N__A
    Joined: May 31, 2006
    Posts: 336

    T__N__A
    Member

    You might be able to mount a T Fan down lower using an adapter plate so the fan bades clear the upper hose. I had a custom radiator built for mine but was still limited to space. This will be a different setup than yours but you get the Idea..... Also a T fan does not have a water pump so I modified an aftermarket T fan to the side of the A block.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  27. That's a pretty brilliant setup, how does it cool? What's the distance between the top of the crank pulley and the middle of the fan?
     
  28. T__N__A
    Joined: May 31, 2006
    Posts: 336

    T__N__A
    Member

    Thanks. Its 10 inches from the top of the pulley to the middle of the fan. It cools pretty good under "normal" driving conditions but if you let it idle more then 5 mins or so it starts to get I little warm. Could also be the fact the idle is pretty high With the cam thats in there now.
     
  29. I looked at doing just that originally - picked up a few different aftermarket T water pumps. But as I had to get a custom rad built anyway I went with the scalloped top tank in the end.
     
  30. My friend IS NOT an asshole! I was explaining how a large radius needed on a crank grind would increase the cost of the job.
    :cool:
     

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