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February Banger Meeting

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by ForEverFour, Feb 2, 2008.

  1. Hey all,

    Sorry if someone has started this already, I did a search.
    My name is Greg Stokes, I work for New Zealand Hot Rod Magazine down here. We built Project 29 in the magazine and Morty has posted pics of it on the Hop Up site under HOPUPLAND.
    29 pu with handmade chassis and torsion suspension, banger motor and five speed etc.
    Probably not a very good post to kick off with but I wanted to gather some thoughts on the idea of fitting a counterwighted (C crank as they are refered to) into an A block. Also some thoughts on babbit vs inserts.
    I know that similar questions may have been posted but there is so much info on here!
    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 25,916

    The37Kid
    Member

    Welcome to February, I was going to start the post yesterday and did a search as well, must be quiet in the 4Banger world. No progress on any of my stuff, finally did get a B block & C crank boxed for shipment to the Coast for future Bonneville use. Kohler plumbing fixture boxes work great.
     
  3. denis4x4
    Joined: Apr 23, 2005
    Posts: 3,288

    denis4x4
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Colorado

    I'm looking for info from anyone out there that has installed a NEW 97 on a single down draft manifold. Currently, I'm running a Mooneyes EFI that still presents some problems on a cold start situation. I have to use starter fluid, once it's up to operating temps, no problem on restarts.
     
  4. BRENT in 10-uh-C
    Joined: Apr 14, 2004
    Posts: 502

    BRENT in 10-uh-C
    Member

    Dennis, does the Mooneyes set-up squirt fuel when the ignition switch is first turned on? About 30 years ago I was working on a street rod that had one of those Holley EFI units on it. It had a little button on the "brain box" that when depressed acted like an accellerator pump. The problem with this particular set-up was the ECM (brain box) was mounted almost out of reach under the dash. What we found was that when the ignition switch was turned to the "ON" position, it automatically pulsed the injector acting as a quick pump shot. Therefore turning the switch on-then-off for 4 or 5 times in rapid succession usually put enough raw fuel in the intake to allow an easy cold start. It might be worth having a look/see down the throttle body and see if anything happens when the switch is turned on.

    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ​

    Greg, as far as babbit vs. inserts, it is as controvercial as which political party is better. You are very correct about there is a lot of information here, --and a lot of what you will read here is "he said / she said" information that is not always that accurate IMO, ...or from my personal experiences. There are also a few that have ticked off some of the guys that truly have 'been there and done it' so they just lurk now with little or no care to make public posts.

    With that said, I am not a traditionalist in the sense many others here are. While I like a Banger, it does not mean that much to me that it must have old vintage speed equipment on it to be cool. I am OK with reproduction or modern stuff because I want to make the most horsepower or have the most efficient set-up in/on my equipment, so keep that in mind when I answer your question as I see it. I have both babbit and inserts on equipment. The 2 biggest reasons for going with inserts is someone does not have easy access to someone who knows how to properly pour & machine babbit, --or they are in a high-end horsepower project where they are trying to extract the most horsepower and are looking to cut as much parasitic drag out as possible. I have babbit in my OHV powered track-roadster which has 10:1 compression. Like I said, there is a lot of "he said / she said" advise floating around that says you can't run over 7:1 CR on babbit. Based on what I read on HopUp site, I don't think there is an advantage for either in your truck.

    As to a 'C' crank installed in an 'A' block, I think the biggest reason this was done 30+ years ago was because no one had ability to make counterweights for an 'A' crank. Most of the true banger fanatics then wanted to use a 'B' block. There was a personae about if you had a 'B' block in your Model A that it was automatically faster or made more power. People like my Dad that was a "restorer" (in the loosest sense of the word) tried to fool his Model A buddies by using a 'C' crank in an 'A' block by turning the journals down some and then align-boring the mains just as much as they dared where the crank would just fit. Many a crankshaft were ruined by inexperienced grinders who didn't straighten them first, and many fiascos happened when cam gear to crank gear clearances got screwed up. A lot has been learned since those days.

    Personally I am of the mindset that the better way is to have counterweights welded onto an 'A' crank and then have it straightened and correctly machined and leave the good 'C' cranks for use by someone needing one for a 'B' block. Around here there seems to be a mindset of cutting up or ruining a perfectly good piece (body, frame, engine part) with no respect for preservation simply because "they can". :eek: Your mileage may vary....

     
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  5. blackjack21
    Joined: Oct 13, 2005
    Posts: 89

    blackjack21
    Member
    from Denver, CO

    Howdy,

    Got the front end lowered last week. Reverse Eye spring with less arch gets it where I want it. Still working on the Engine. B cam, Adjustable Lifters, SS Valves, Ansen intake, and Stormberg "LZ" Lincoln Zephyr 97 Carb. Can't wait for spring!

    Enjoy,

    T

    [​IMG]
     
  6. I have a "B" crank in my "A" block with counter weights added. I had 2 "A" cranks counter weighted and drilled for pressure, they both broke at # 4 throw after several 4 grand runs. This was in an engine with REM AL rods and a 12.5 Al. flathead V8 fly wheel. Actually, I am using the "B" crank because I had it ground as a stroker, 4. 562, I also now run dampeners on all my engines. If engines plural sounds impressive it is only on 2 engines that I have running now. My 2 port is about 7 3/4's to 1 and we consistently wind it to 4 grand and have made quite a few passes, of course this is with a "C" crank. I went to inserts because I tired of adjusting and pulling shims over the years. I am not arguing the merits of inserts over babbit but I prefer to use inserts. I have a set of those new inserted rods in my stroker which I just fired the other day. If I build another "A" I plan on using one of those new counter weighted cranks. Good "A" cranks are hard to find, I have 1 more rusty "B" and 1 "BB". I would like to find someone in So Ca that does the "BB" cranks. I had an email from a guy that ran a "BB" with a 20 lb dampener and a 15 lb flywheel and turned it 6500 twice a lap as he put it. It was in an 8 port flathead and had a lot of other sophisticated modifications.
    Antique Nationals will be at a new location this year according to a card I received yesterday, it will be at the Auto Club dragway at Ca, Speedway on sun. June 8
     
  7. jetmek
    Joined: Jan 12, 2006
    Posts: 1,847

    jetmek
    Member

    hey just plain bill am icorrect that your car is a red narrowed track t? if so , i met you at the GNRS in 05 i believe. talked with your wife(girlfriend?) quit a bit i was VERY impressed with your ride! i was there with rolling bones guys a couple of cars down from you. ive got an engine id like to have built by some one with experience but they all seem to be located in so-cal. you have any recommendations on reputable builders out there? looking at sometime in the next year or two....al
     
  8. This is great feedback guys!
    Awesome.
    I am thinking that we will go ahead and fit the C crank in to the A block by turning down the crank.
    Unfortunately I am on a little bit of a budget too so I am thinking about making some strongbacks for Number 1 & 2 main caps opposed to getting some billet steel caps made.
     
  9. Hey Brent, Do you make your own weights for the crank or? I would like as much info about weighting and balancing the A cranks and motors. I am a new guy at this. Thanks
     
  10. My name is Lars, im pretty new at this, but am in the process of reading all the banger meeting treads.
    Anyway this item just came for sale in Denmark, for about 1200 $
    [​IMG]
    Kan you pleace help me id it, the seller say its for a model a-Ford.
    Lars
     
  11. I think you guys have infected me,with a disease to be a banger owner! I posted on last month's thread but it was 29th of the month,so i thought i'd post again.I love this thing,except the price,unfortunately i'm financially challenged. www.race-cars.com/carsales/ford/1162515289/1162515289ss.htm
     

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  12. Artiki
    Joined: Feb 17, 2004
    Posts: 1,997

    Artiki
    Member
    from Brum...

    Nothing to report from Chez Artiki this month, other than the fact that I've taken the car out for a couple of runs. Damn, it's cold with no windshield!

    Good to see you on here again, Brent.

    I run inserts. I had them done as I thought it was the thing to do, though I now realise that I could've got away with a decent babbitt job, especially as I only race twice a year and don't really go over 3,500rpm much. Having said that, I like the fact that I don't have to check them and play with the shims. I'd rather be in the car than under it.
     
  13. Artiki
    Joined: Feb 17, 2004
    Posts: 1,997

    Artiki
    Member
    from Brum...

    Lars, have you got any photos from other angles? That really is a nice looking piece.
    Always had a soft-spot for SU carbs...
     
  14. Jalopy Banger
    Joined: Aug 5, 2002
    Posts: 373

    Jalopy Banger
    Member
    from Sweden

    Welcome Lars, nice to have You on board. Made Your picture a bit lighter. Don't hesitate to show us Your beautiful Corvette and 4banger.
     

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  15. hollywood 423
    Joined: Aug 25, 2005
    Posts: 226

    hollywood 423
    Member
    from west ohio

    I'm asking your thoughts on oversize intake valves. Pros,cons,are they worth the effort, best place to get them? Got my new Riley 2 carb intake on Friday, just ordered on Monday, so I'll hang the Zephyr up for a spell. To cold to do much in the shop right now..
     
  16. No it was the only foto
    And Jalopy banger, I think you mistake for somebody else. Im from Denmark, not Sweden
    Lars
     
  17. Corn coupe
    Joined: Jan 7, 2008
    Posts: 356

    Corn coupe
    Member
    from CZ

    Hello all - I'm a newby too. I've got a '29 Sports Coupe, all stock except for a Police Car High Comp head, and a set of Bent Spoke Kelseys Hayes I'm waiting to arrive. But I've juts got my hands on a twin carb intake (Zepher). A couple of questions - what carbs are best? will my engine keep together? (it's been recently rebuilt) what will I gain besides looking great? Thanks all. Mark from the Middle of England
     
  18. hollywood 423
    Joined: Aug 25, 2005
    Posts: 226

    hollywood 423
    Member
    from west ohio

    Corn Cob, I have been runing a pair of Stromberg 97s on the same intake. Mine seem to work well.
     
  19. Yes, you are correct, except I built it as a lakes modified, and that was my wife of 53 years. Were you with the cars with the salt on them? I really enjoyed the GNRS sure saw some fine cars. We were next to Jim Lattin's repop of Stu Hilborn's lakester, and about 10' from the Bud stand. They were about 1 1/2 hours late with the trophy presentation so my son and Jim's did some measuring and found that we could just sneak out the the pedestrian doors on our end so we did and we fired the 2 port just outside the door and WOW the security came running and barred the door preventing any more escapes.
    As to engine building, I use Taylor Engine in Whittier but I'm sure there are competent shops in your area . If you can find some one that gets the SOSS mag or the FAST news letter or that has a warmed over 4 banger ask them. There is a firm by the name of Bouldin and Bouldin in Belfast NY that advertises in SOSS, I don't know anything about them but they are a full service shop in regards to inserts and other modifications. I don't have an Atlas handy but There is also Brent, when he posts he usually has a link to his shop. Bill Stipe is another source. I'm sure there are others just get referrals as there are some shade tree mechanics out there. I have used local automotive machine shops for valve work. I open the valve pockets up on my mill and then I just take the block to a good local shop and have them grind the seats. I now have a tool and cutter grinder so I may make a form cutter for the seats if I do another one. One thing about this hobby is I'm always thinking about the NEXT engine.
     
  20. Last year there was a thread on the Ford barn about babbit verses inserts and I did some research and found an article by an aftermarket sleeper head manufacturer and he stated in the article that at 7 to 1 he saw that the babbit was starting to be displaced. Back in the "day" we found that constant hard running at 55 or faster would tend to shake a rod loose or pound the mains out especially the center main. We rarely had problems with the occasional drag or short high speed runs but if the engine had a few miles on it and we ran it hard for very many miles we would have babbit problems.
     
  21. Corn coupe
    Joined: Jan 7, 2008
    Posts: 356

    Corn coupe
    Member
    from CZ

    Thanks for that Hollywood 423- any chance of a picture? I'm not sure of the linkages and things. Cheers mate
     
  22. Ive got another picture from seller, theres no name on the manifold
    [​IMG]
    Lars
     
  23. Cool sedan.

    Thanks,
    Kurt
     
  24. Wildfire
    Joined: Apr 23, 2006
    Posts: 827

    Wildfire
    Member

    Oversize intake valves are supposed to be a good idea. Brent put my engine together and that was one of the must-do's...So we did.

    I can't offer a comparison, but I trust Brent's opinions.
     
  25. blackjack21
    Joined: Oct 13, 2005
    Posts: 89

    blackjack21
    Member
    from Denver, CO

    Much Appreciated!

    -Tyler
     
  26. jetmek
    Joined: Jan 12, 2006
    Posts: 1,847

    jetmek
    Member

    thanks for the tips bill...did i tell you how much i like your t? id luv it if you posted some close-up pics of it!
     
  27. Nothing from me...

    I have to rip apart two cars to get what I want for my 4 banger project. So I'm holding off for the moment, hope to be done by spring.

    If anyone wants to trade stock 32 or 34 front ends for dropped stuff, pm me.

    Also have a top secret project in the works I think you'll all like..looking forward to sharing.
     
  28. Professor Fate
    Joined: Sep 13, 2007
    Posts: 146

    Professor Fate
    Member
    from the bay

    neat looking piece, but about 1000.00 over priced. A pair of 1.5" HISF S.U.'s shouldn't be more than 200.00 (these are missing all the linkage) and the exhaust manifold, albieght different, doesn't appear to be anything that unique...except straight, which can only be determined unless bolted to the car. My guess is that the exhaust manifold is for a heater application. ok my math isn't the best, but I don't believe that is a really good price.
     
  29. Havn't done much on my engine, got busy here so have not touched my B mill. I did manage to get the A out and drive it around in the snow. It was a nice day yesterday, and after installing new glass and a new seat, decided a jaunt was in order to help keep my sanity :D
     

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