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Technical ***February 2021 Banger Meet Thread - 6 More Weeks Shop Time!***

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Jiminy, Feb 2, 2021.

  1. poshdbs
    Joined: Feb 28, 2013
    Posts: 72

    poshdbs
    Member

    My B block has no diamond, no numbers and no grind marks on the flat for the number.
     
  2. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 606

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Hey Coupe,
    Interesting B blk.
    Two things... first , that pad with two holes is FIRST I’ve seen... but heard of. That is to say that Ford at some point in time, started IDEA for a power assist in 1932, that never went into production. MIGHT have been the ‘ base pad’
    Intended for hookup of that power assist idea.
    I heard that was abandoned project... sure would like to see picture if ever finished !

    Second thing noticed- Never have seen a snake like groove... such as the one in the blks oil galley ?
    This must have been EARLY blk , with experimental groove or someone’s idea of What ??
    I guess a shadow and bad eyesight is my take on this galley !
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
  3. Phil Damon
    Joined: May 8, 2020
    Posts: 39

    Phil Damon
    Member
    from San Diego

    Looks like the block has been modified for full pressure oiling. Passages to mains drilled out, cam feed restricted and oil outlet opened up to 1/4 pipe. Probably has hole to back of timing gears plugged also.
     
    Savage Coupe likes this.
  4. The oil galley looks normal to me (casting) and I noticed the plugs too.
    The pad on drivers side was early block, then dropped.

    J
     
    Carter and Old Dawg like this.
  5. Savage Coupe
    Joined: Jun 20, 2020
    Posts: 25

    Savage Coupe
    Member
    from Washington

    Thank you everyone for replying. I do have the bell housing, I’ll have to check for a serial number. It appears to have 4 sleeves and 1 piece brass valve guides. Some of the coolant passages have been plugged??? I’ll have to look it over some more when I get a chance. Thanks again for all the good info.

    Hance. BC988AFD-CCF7-4813-98B9-AB3BAC5D1EA8.jpeg
     
  6. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 670

    railcarmover

    That pad cast in your block was for a vacuum operated clutch servo, never put into production by Ford. That's a true 1932 block, serial number was on the flywheel housing. Sleeved? does it have valve seats too? common crack was between exhaust seat and cylinder, folks sleeved them, pinned the cracks and put in valve seats.
    Windy as hell here, back yard fulla pepper tree limbs
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
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  7. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 606

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Hey Retson,
    Today, while messing with Diamond B, I noticed for first time some numbers. Took pictures. Hope they come thru.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. If that’s L610, that block was made December 6th 1940. Does it have a matching head too? With my diamond I rebuilt, the block was from 37, head from 35.

    If it’s a diamond head, there will be a casting under the water pump boss.
     
    Old Dawg likes this.
  9. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 606

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Hey Retson,

    Do you see the 3. 7
    Stamped where I have blue tape.
    History: When buying this blk, I remember the guy saying it is a ‘37 blk. Dont know from who or how he got that idea.... unless he saw the 3 7 stamp, which is very hard to spot/see. I'm thinking whoever messed with this blk, took the ‘32 bell housing ...that had stamped info. They then put model A clutch housing, so that it could be installed to A transmission , also with altered B oil pan. Thats how I got it.
    That guy, seller, didnt know squat ! He said he ran this engine. That was impossible, as the points were closed; the plug wires in dist cap wrong; and wires not in firing order on plugs.

    Hm, I was unaware that you could decode that number/letter combo. Is there some book of code numbers ?
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2021
    Old Dawg likes this.
  10. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 606

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Hey Retson,
    Yeah , prominent diamond by pump area. No original head, but 6:1 Winfield new aluminum.
    I also got a 6:1 cast iron original Winfield, with a repair, in the deal.
    Rick
     
    Old Dawg likes this.
  11. Could the date code be "C 19 7"?
    That would make it March 19, 1937- and go along with the 3.7 (March '37)
     
    Old Dawg likes this.
  12. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 670

    railcarmover

    000as.jpg
    there is no identifying the foundry that used the diamond mark.
    there is no proof the casting is any better.
    some have hardened valve seats.

    many pay a premium for that foundry mark, thinking its a better base to build with , in reality its no better than a Rouge cast 32-34 block.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2021
    Carter, Old Dawg and johnneilson like this.
  13. The block is definitely from 1940. Attached is screenshots from the Diamond Block page on FordGarage.
    Screen Shot 2021-02-04 at 8.26.25 AM.png Screen Shot 2021-02-04 at 8.26.33 AM.png
     
  14. Diamond Blocks go by their casting tag, that stamp doesn't look like Ford, so maybe it was done later when rebuilt or something?
     
  15. I remember reading that! Some people say that Rouge built them, but there isn't any evidence proving that fact. I've heard of some having hardened valve seats. My Diamond I rebuilt had stock valve seats, but it did have a B cam in it.

    Too bad I never heard it run, guy bought it before I even got to wire it up!
     
  16. Phil Damon
    Joined: May 8, 2020
    Posts: 39

    Phil Damon
    Member
    from San Diego

    I think it says "C 19 7" also. Looks like a 7 not an L.
     
  17. upload_2021-2-4_15-25-25.png

    I'm seeing C 19 7
     
  18. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 2,557

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    B blocks weren't stamped on the block pad but serialized on the upper half of the bell housing.
    Nothing wrong with that block for your head. Hope to see photos of it together.
     
    Carter likes this.
  19. Carter and Phil Damon like this.
  20. No apologies necessary- just happy to help :D
     
  21. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 606

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Hey Retson,
    Thanks !
    You taught me something I was not aware that diamond B born date could be ciphered from that letter/ number code !
    I haven’t visited Vince’s Fordbarn for last few years. Haven’t seen all updates he has done. He is THE A/B brain trust for all of us and Fordbarn....and good guy to boot !
    Well, I sent an ‘upside down’ code to throw you off. Not intentional for sure. I just went out in the dark with bright light.
    It sure is C 197!
    Some one who knew.... what this blk is, stamped that 3 7 in upper corner.
    I’m HAPPY that it is a ‘37 !!
    I’ve been busy last week.. clean crap off of this block and examining it. I cannot see where hard seats were installed. Valves are real nice. NO cracks !! No ridge rings.
    I’ve had/worked plenty ‘32 Bs. usually some problem to handle. This is first diamond B. Ive heard nothing but good about them. This one has plenty meat to rebore, if wanted

    Anyone know when LAST diamond B blks made ?
     
    Retson the Racer likes this.
  22. Mikko_
    Joined: Aug 3, 2018
    Posts: 379

    Mikko_
    Member
    from Sweden

    I've read somewhere on the Fordbarn that B-engines built in Dagenham, England had the serial number stamped on the block pad due to the law requiring the block to be stamped, don't know if it's true or not.
    As I recall the same person also said that the European B-blocks had a thicker top deck, making them less likely to crack like the American B-blocks.
    I will see if I can find the thread on Fordbarn and post it here.

    My B-engine has numbers stamped on the block pad, could also just be a number from a rebuilder.

    Edit: I found it, post #34 https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=247755&page=2&highlight=thicker
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2021
  23. Yes, if it went into a vehicle the diamond blocks have an engine number. I have a couple that were industrial engines and they're not stamped.
     
  24. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 606

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Did your statements also apply to American diamond blks ...re industrial blks ?
     
  25. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 2,557

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Mmmm, it doesn't know what it is.
    The blue engine has a '36 casting number. It also has a diamond bell housing, unstamped. According to my deceased buddy who's family had a Ford Dealership starting in 1918, you came into the Dealer you could get an overhauled, exchange engine in the WWII time frame for $45.00 installed. They didn't have any new cars to sell and he would say that about any kind of serialized or non serialized engine would go in anything. A bare block, diamond or not, from the parts department didn't have a serial number on it.
    The AA stamped block is definitely not an AA engine OEM... Likely a replacement at some point in time. It was supposed to be the job of the installing mechanic to stamp the block to match the one that came out....but for $45.00....
    In the USA, a '32 B engine, installed in a car, had the engine pad unstamped.
    It was serialized on the ball housing upper half. The last two photos are of the same style engine with the clutch assist mounting pad like @Savage Coupe pictured. It came to me from a '32 banger powered B. Evidence that @Savage Coupe that he doesn't have a diamond block but one that was unstamped in its original application and isn't from the European or Soviet block...is that a pun?

    IMG_20210205_075110303.jpeg IMG_20210205_075136229_TOP.jpeg IMG_20210205_075147828.jpeg IMG_20210205_075220848.jpeg 1612537065526.jpeg 1612537097864.jpeg 1612538447255.jpeg 1612538489907.jpeg

    Sent from my XT1585 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2021
    G Baese and burl like this.
  26. Yes. If they went into a car, they were stamped. Thats why alot of diamond blocks dont have serials.

    Side note, I'm also from the left coast. If you have any banger parts to sell, I'll buy em ;)
     
  27. Tribalmonkey
    Joined: Feb 17, 2019
    Posts: 768

    Tribalmonkey
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I’m new to this group. I have a stock 1930 coupe. My plan is to hop up my banger a bit. I have a model B header, burns single downdraft intake, and an 81 on order from Red’s Headers. I went back and forth on 97 vs 81. I was getting lots of conflicting advice. I ended up going with the 81. I figured that leaves me open to adding a second 81 sometime in the future. I also have an electric fuel pump and regulator on order. Here is my questions. Where is the best place to mount the pump and regulator? I have done a lot of research. Lots of people placing them in the passenger side frame rail. I’m concerned about the heat from the header. I’d also like to swap out to a higher compression head. How high? 6:1? Thanks!


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  28. Welcome to the group! Usually two carbs are overkill unless you have a bigger cam and other supporting modifications.

    5.5/6:1 is a great ratio for a stock-ish motor, it'll definitely wake it up.
    Snyders sells a 6:1 head that looks like the stock head.
    As far as fuel pump, I ran mine a few inches away from the fuel shut-off under the gas tank.

    Here's my previous car, I had a single 94 on it.
     
  29. Tribalmonkey
    Joined: Feb 17, 2019
    Posts: 768

    Tribalmonkey
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Great video! Awesome car!


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  30. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 606

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Thanks,
    Your answer may add evidence to solve my situation, that is... checking for possible reasons for THREE INCHES of sludge in bottom of a ‘37 Diamond B pan. Your answer just adds one more piece of good information !
    I have inputed that possibility in my reasoning , some time past. But didn't know ... how use/distribution of diamond B blks was done. B blk with pad # (= put into auto/trunk) makes sense ! So, my w/o # gives possible additional reason for present condition !
    SO FAR...evidence is that - poor maintenance -lack of care - irregular use - no PM , etc.. added up to negatively impact this diamond Bs life.

    This IS a Great platform /candidate for a hot B project ! It is a matter of funds now. I’ll make a lemon pie out of this B. life looks good for her right now as- no cracks or other blk defects and plenty of good metal to add cubes ! Ton of possibilities to increase HP. $ wise have tooo many irons in fire right now !
    With a little luck and new parts, mostly small stff, I will have her purring soon ! Mostly too old/decrepit without help to work FAST.

    AS to your statement.. about buying/selling stuff, yeah Ive been downsizing for couple years now...under orders. Just sold a 4-port to Oh guy. And a Cragar to a local yute. Also, just past week sold a great drilled Standard C crank to member here !
    And, one more BANGER project ... with NEW 8-Port head.... that is breaking the bank. Need $$$$$ for that , so selling to support my ‘habit’.. lol

    But, still in that mode,eh.
    I have one 4-port left... Riley 4-port ‘1935 iron.
    It is my current avatar. Are you aware of the new BURTZ...blk/rods/crank and flywheel ??
    My hope is that will be base for this Riley 4 Port ! Today, just got great news of SOON delivery !!
    NOTE: I will talk with you about stuff.. PM.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2021
    Old Dawg likes this.

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