After reading 11 pages of responses of the boss' story it would "seem" to me that the question was- In this age of Ebay, craigslist, HAMB et al what does a Classic car dealer contribute? Or maybe I missed something... It's happened before. Thanks for the story Ryan. It never got weird enough for me."— Hunter S. Thompson
I collect tin litho toys,advertising,Catalin radios,wristwatches,etc.If I had to make my living doing that,I would work from higher margins because you're dealing in smaller $$.We're talking about cars here,so stay on point.Lights,licensing,insurance,business location,cleanup,repair and recon,lot help,etc...Also,if there were no car dealers and no NADA,It would be a cat rodeo with a bunch of guys never being able to determine value.But who sweats the small details?
They aren't contradictory if you read them like this: "He feels the car was only worth $3000 to him because he was going to sell the car on his website for $7000 "
Actually we're not so much talking about cars as we are talking about people. In particular, a kind of person who deals in things that are perceived to be collectable (for whatever reason someone might consider them such). As has been pointed out more than once in this thread already, many of the guys Ryan is talking about would be selling something else to suckers if they weren't selling cars. Still on point.
Well Ryan if nothing else your thread has brought out a lot of flippers,dealers and salesmen going on the defense.
Do any of you guys really think it will sell for anywhere close to 7000. I would say he left himself some room for an offer. I would also bet he sits on it for awhile. I wouldn't think a four door would be a super fast mover on a classic car lot.
Not on point.Ryan states that our time has come and gone in "our industry".So ,is he the industry arbiter and deciding my future and validity?Uh,I beg to differ.Businessmen make better decisions than clockpunchers and we don't dilly dally and turn it into the living deal that never ends.Cut and dried,take it or leave it. Some people should never be car dealers.I went to Omaha last month(I had a stem cell transplant up there this spring and used to live there.)to buy an HHR Panel for my business.They had to order it,so I put a substantial deposit on it.The panels are almost gone,yet Mr. Twentysomething(locating manager) waits 6 days to order it.Oops.Now he calls me the day before I'm supposed to pick it up and says he needs to find another one.He finds one,but it's not identical.OK,whatever.Then I tell him I need 200.00 off the deal if I have to come up with a tow dolly,since I lost my free help.Or they can deliver it to KC.He says no way and no apology is issued.OK,strong letter to follow.That is the difference between a POS and an auto sales professional.I've sold,I've run a New Car dealership,I've wholesaled and I have never boned somebody like that.I guess they don't plan on staying in business.
Damn, Ryan. You really kicked over the Turd Bucket with this one. You wanted to "stir it up", and you have!
That seems to be the issue to me also. There's nothing wrong with making a profit, but if you have to lie and twist the truth to make a little more profit, what does that make you? I've read the stories here, and in each one the "dealer" has had to make stories and excuses for doing what he does. There's no integrity in that, and I don't want to have to deal with someone who can't find it in themselves to be honest about what they do and how they do it.
I seriously doubt Teddy is a clockpuncher. Bottom line is the industry doersn't matter. What matters is the character of the man. That young man that stiffed you on the HHR could have just as easily been selling you a canoe. Still on point
I love the comment I hear over and over again in this thread, "no one is forcing you to buy or sell a car". I don't have much experience with classic car dealers, but I do have some with new and used car dealers, and if classic dealers are much the same (and I'm sure they are), then the only reason they don't force people into sales or purchases is because they haven't figured out how to yet. All the sneaky, deceptive, and borderline things that are done in the name of the sale are just that: sneaky and deceptive. If your integrity is maintained by the statement, "I've never FORCED anyone to do anything", then you guiltily acknowledge that you've been to the edge, so to speak. Standard sales tactics at car lots are couched in the implicit understanding that anything, ANYTHING, that gets the sale is acceptable. I'm gonna jump ship and abandon this thread, if only because I can't stand car dealers and salesmen when they're working their game.
And that is what professionalism is all about,whether you sell new cars,kustoms,vintage cars and bikes,or anything else.I just get the feeling that I'm talking to a bunch of guys that took the "Screwing the car dealer 101" and failed the midterm.
I second that, and I am a dealer, but really consider myself a mechanic first. I flew out there with my wife to buy her dream car. A 1950 Ford. Those guys completely lied and misrepresented the car. I documented with a notebook all the specific questions I asked them and their answers in my notes, showed them the notes. I wanted a little love to cover the blatant lies I was told. Over 20 of them. Even could show them the quotes of what they said. The owner just said, " are you going to buy the car or just talk turkey?!" What a jerk. I decided to save the trip and experience for my girlfriend, bit the bullet and bought the car and drove it back across the country with her me wrenching the whole way. Had a great time anyways. But what liars, and horrible people when caught red handed. They didn't care at all. Figure once you are across the country they can just screw you. Anyways, didn't let them ruin it. I worked on it a bunch, fixed lots, and drove it as a daily driver for years. Got married in the car, drove cross country and to Texas in it many times, and drove my first daughter home from the hospital in it from Santa Monica. Now Greasy Dave on here is getting to enjoy it as much as we did. He loves the car also. Lucky for him he didn't have to deal with those crooks, and got the fixed car. Ps. I think it is fine the way Ryan feels about classic car dealers. I don't associate with most of them either. I don't think the time has come and gone for the few honest dealers, but hopefully for the rest.
Frankly, i wish Ryan would post other thought provoking "stories" to discuss. Yeah, most of us missed the point, but look what a great discussion came out of it. As long as it doesn't become a rant session it's good. My mentor in the old car world always told me to "Buy the seller" not the vehicle. He said you can learn more about what you're looking at by the way the seller handles himself than any casual inspection. He also said the only control you have over any deal is your own actions. As I said in a earlier post, I got bent over on a deal twice but I took it because I made the choices in both cases. If only all car guys were saints and all women were pure of heart - oops dreaming again!
So you met some hard bitten Churmudgeon who dont like tire kickers& lookyloos. I think Ill start asking do you have a pocket full of cash? Might save a lot of time. I never ask or look at anything unless I have the cash myself. The saying Cash talks Bull walks comes to mind. Also any price I quote is only good at that precise moment. The price Is subject to change higher or lower a minute later. OldWolf
If he's clearing out the classifieds,he should look in to redefining what a project car is.Way to many scrap heaps on there,accumulated parts posing as what could be a project car.Seems like everybody likes to tear them down to the frame and then get involved in another "Project".Food for thought.
I feel the same way about "Professional Swap Meet Sellers"... I sell at only one swap meet a year... just to unload the shit I don't need, and look for more shit to replace it. But you know the guy... the one that schmoozes you on a part... and because you think he really needs it, you sell it to him cheap. Then, you walk the swap meet only to find the part on his swap space... marked up 100% or more. The only saving grace is that he'll take it to five or six swap meets... and might have it even longer. To me, it's about making people happy with a sale... not breaking out the personal lube to put food on my table. It's all supposed to be fun. About car dealers... in general... I can't stand them. Sam
Teddie is common in most hobbies that deal with vintage items. He counts on the ignorance of an unenlightened seller, buys an item cheap and flips it for as much as he can, hopefully not dubiously altering it in some fashion to increase it's profit pontential to a buyer who is emotionally driven and who often knows precious little more than did Martha. Teddie is that fellow who tells you that whatever he owns is solid gold and whatever you own is junk unless he purchases it from you for resale.
Enjoyable read. Pretty funny... As for the topic, eh...it happens. And its sad i say that cuz it means I've accepted it as the norm. In practically every aspect of life and business innocence/ignorance is exploited by the fast talking spiel of a salesman. Is it right??? Hell no! It's disgusting.. I say that mainly because it isn't necessary. Value in, value out used to be somewhat of a simple norm. A small town community idea comes to mind...i live among these people. But today, it's like you won the lottery to be treated fairly and that is sad!! Normal business today is ripping you apart from every possible angle... And in just looking at this old car hobby, it's sad to think someone who is potentially interested in getting into it is ultimately turned off by a dealer dragging him over the coals.
Jim, I agree with you. I think this thread should have been thought about for another several years before Ryan posted it. This stuff started long before there were cowboys and indians.......just my opinion.......Mike
I've been thinking a lot about this since reading it yesterday. I think Ryan's little story was all about extremes, and while I'm sure there are scenario's out there that are that bad, I don't think they are the norm. A while back there was a big discussion about the places that were in California such as "Stick City" and "Street Rods". Everyone raved about how great they were and how much we enjoyed going there and checking out, AND Buying the cars. No one complained that Rabbit was ripping them off, yet he made a very good living. How about a lot of our members on here that buy and sell like crazy, like (insert name here) for instance. I think most of us (particularly the ones that know him) don't believe that he is doing anything like "Teddie". But he buys and sells old cars all the time. Does he provide a service? I could name another guy that is on here that buys and marks up some pretty rare old Fords to obscene levels (and I won't as I don't want to start a shit storm). He isn't doing shoddy repairs but is known to beat up the seller pretty good (Not literally) and then double and triple his money. I have a customer that owns an indoor Classic Car Dealership. He would bring most of the Hot Rods/Street Rods that he got in to my shop to have us evaluate and fix any safety or mechanical issues - and fix them right. He didn't "hide" problems or do a quickie fix like STP and Sawdust in a noisy diff, he fixed it right. Does he mark the cars up and make a profit? Of course. You ask what Service or good these types of dealers do? Well ,they make cars available for one thing, in an environment that the buying public is comfortable with, at a time that is convenient for the customer. They can arrange financing (something an individual will not do) and insurance (Ditto). I had a friend that sold his car through one of these "Stores". WHY? because he HATES selling things and dealing with flakes that call up and then don't show after they have made an arrangement, or offer less than an agreed price, or bad mouth the car. He is also paranoid about someone coming back and ripping him off. We read threads about that kind of stuff happening all the time on here, and everyone jumps on the bandwagon and blasts the guy who pulls that crap. Well for many folks they just don't want to deal with the BS. So I think they are many of these "Dealers" that do perform a valid service and of course there are crooks. But are they any worse then the "Flippers" that are working out of their garage and bolting crap together that isn't even a complete or safe car and boning the buyer in the name of being a "Fellow Hot Rodder"? Cuz I see an awful lot of that crap going on!
Back in the '70s an old boy told (warned) us about a local who was all about the $. He said "there's making a profit and then there's (George) he wants to make a killing". Every time, no madder what, who or why. They always reap what they sow, someday.
Hes a middleman. I actively do everything in my power to avoid any middlemen. If I cant buy from a manufacturer, or a wholesaler (new stuff) I dont buy. If its a secondhand item, I make damn sure the wear and tear put on it was done buy the person I hand my dollars to. My money is too hard earnt to go to some lazy fuck doing 'deals' As for used cars? used car salesmen are a convenience for the lazy, both sellers and buyers.
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