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Folks Of Interest Fear & Loathing The Classic Car Dealer: Part 2

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Ryan, Dec 30, 2016.

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  1. slowmotion
    Joined: Nov 21, 2011
    Posts: 3,281

    slowmotion
    Member

    When I first read this thread, there were three members in particular that I figured were dealers (to one extent or another), whom I thought "this will be interesting", and I was right.
    Glad civility is prevailing.
    As far as my own opinion, there's winners & turds in every profession. Keep your eyes to the horizon and you nose to the wind.
    Happy New Year.
     
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  2. corncobcoupe
    Joined: May 26, 2001
    Posts: 5,670

    corncobcoupe
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

     
  3. corncobcoupe
    Joined: May 26, 2001
    Posts: 5,670

    corncobcoupe
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member


    This reply is a Hell of a lot more "Professional" then your first very personal attack of Ryan.

    Yea I get it, you were a dealer for years and maybe still are and took Ryan's Classic Car Dealer general post as a personal attack and replied with a personal attack on Ryan.

    While everyone is entitled to a opinion, your first post crossed the line. That's my opinion.

    Ryan says it's all good so Happy New Year Ray and Enjoy the HAMB.

    Thank you for your service to our country.

    There's no need for the personal attacks:
     
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  4. Don't forget to add "lawyers" to your wall of shame industries.
     
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  5. HotrodHR
    Joined: Jul 12, 2010
    Posts: 209

    HotrodHR
    Member

    This thread could go on ad infinitum... and that's OK.

    Value add (or added value) is determined by the "improvement" made on a product or service less the cost. This is often subjective and in the case of selling or buying anything emotional.

    Here's an example: Car has fresh paint. It looks like a million bucks. The seller values the paint job at $10k and adds it to his price, however it only cost him $5k. What's the "value add" in this scenario? Should it be the actual cost of the paint job plus say a 20% mark up? What's the time and aggravation of getting a car to the painter worth to the seller? In this case it looks like $5k. Is that the real value? You could say the paint job improved the overall appearance and prospect of selling. What's that worth? Lets jack up the price some more. But wait a minute, two tone pastels are so 1980's...

    When it's all said and done it's a matter of supply and demand, the price the market will bear and ultimately an agreement between the buyer and seller.
     
    bobwop likes this.
  6. How about appraisers'?

    I worked at a shop with a guy that was a certified appraiser. One day this kat brings in a 55 or 56 Chevy truck, short box, step side, small back glass, 6 cyl/3spd. Looked bone stock. Anyways, guy wants it appraised. Shop appraiser asks the guy if he's wanting to sell it, guy says yes he is and he would like to get somewhere in the $5k range for it. Appraiser looks it over and tells the guy it will appraise for around five then proceeds to tell him that he knows someone that might even be interested in it and that he might could get them come look at it that day. The owner is all for it so he leaves the truck at the shop. In the meantime the appraiser gets on the phone and talks the truck up to someone. The potential buyer shows up and the appraiser tells him that the truck just appraised at $8500 and can be bought that day for $6500! The guy jumps all over it, says he will bring the cash by before the end of the day. Appraiser calls the owner and says he's got a buyer for the truck but needs the title, owner shows up shortly after with the signed title and drops it off, a few hours later the guy with the cash shows up to pick up his new truck and was out the door before the original owner was called and told to come get his money. Now I realize that this is how the consignment process usually works but this was NOT a consignment and at no time during any of did the appraiser discuss any payment for an appraisal bc as soon as he learned that the owner wanted to sell he quit being an appraiser and started being a "buddy" that was willing to help his "new pal" unload his old truck. I learned real quick that this wasn't just some one time deal either as he had several similar stories to tell during the few years I worked with him. I know of other appraisers that have "conned" folks in similar ways.
     
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  7. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 8,280

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    In some cases it has to be worth more than the $$$$$ spent. The end user doesn't "suffer" the expense or efforts to gain something finished. More often than not a full blown restoration is a loser if you limit the ideal to profit margins. Some cars can be worth more than their purchase price and build expense, simply because it's finished and ready for a new owner without the wait. You brought up a good point there and the opinions of others will be interesting.
     
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  8. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,284

    metalman
    Member

    You are right on with this. Had a local take a nice restored 38 Chevy 4 dr and build a high dollar street rod out of it a couple years ago. Unfortunately, he had a vision, a photo he had of a car from 30 years ago, yep, nice pastel paint with heartbeat graphics. The builder took his money and did what he wanted, I wouldn't have. Didn't have it done a year and wanted me to help him sell it. Didn't understand when I told him his 20K paint job really held back the value, not to mention he had spent close to 200K on a body style with limited appeal. He was pretty sick when it only got to 45K at a Mecum auction, I was actually surprised it got that high. Price = demand.
     
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  9. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,284

    metalman
    Member

    An appraiser that want to buy or knows a potential buyer, that's a big red flag right there!
    I do appraisals for one of the classic car insurance companies. A lot of the time I end up with unhappy people, usually ones that just bought a car from one of these dealers Ryan is so fond;) of. Dealer always has a "appraised" price on the car they sell, people actually believe them! Had a lady bring me an ot Mustang, dealer said it appraised for 15k so she thought she got a buy at 11K. I appraised the pos rust bucket for $2500 and showed her why. She was not happy. Another guy brings me a nice convertible, wants it to appraise at 40K. Told him it would if the VINs hadn't been missing! Had to tell him the car was uninsurable and he was left having to go back to fight an out of state seller. As always, buyer beware.
     
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  10. 4psi
    Joined: Nov 30, 2011
    Posts: 283

    4psi
    Member

    You are correct Sir. I have never been to an auction in person. I have only experienced them through the television, and through working on many cars that were patched together to be pushed through the auction block. So that is what I gather my perspective from, and maybe that's not fair because it's a limited perspective.

    I am pretty open minded, given the chance I would check it out in person.

    I tell you this tho. None of the people I know including myself would have to pick the brain of a marketing guy to figure out what to build next. That's not a jab at you either. That's just the way it is.

    Passion vs Profit...and the way the auctions are presented are profit based so that's probably why I don't care for what I see. I don't care for any other car shows either for the record. lol
     
  11. Anytime! Come on up to Connecticut and freeze your ass off or just drink!
     
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  12. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,284

    metalman
    Member

    Well maybe I should explain myself a little better. A few years ago I started building and selling cars in order to keep the shop afloat when the economy tanked and for the first time ever the phone stopped ringing.Turned out I like it better then building for customers, I get to build them like I like, not how the customers want them. That said, I quickly learned my 1st passion (early Ford hot rods) are not the ticket to make profit but some of the other ot cars I like are. I haven't and won't build something I don't like, don't care how hot of a market they are. As far as picking the brain of a marketing guy, it was just a friendly conversation to find out which one of my passions would be the best in today's market. Two way street as well, he wants to sell my cars, likes the quality and style so we were discussing what I could build he could sell easier.
     
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  13. Ryan, little hint: anyone with multiple perfect 32 ford hot rods can afford more than one drink...........................hold out for airfare.;):D
     
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  14. Who said anything about one drink?:confused: If I am paying airfare I am going where it is warm.:cool:
     
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  15. corncobcoupe
    Joined: May 26, 2001
    Posts: 5,670

    corncobcoupe
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    Grew up in CT.
    Bridgewater - Litchfield County- too far north.
    Grew up a Shoreline Ocean boy right on the water.
    Worked on a Lobster boat during the summer.


    On the shoreline go to "The Place" - BYOB bring the beer/ cocktails and pound down some oysters with horseradish, muscles and clams or some lobster joints in Guilford, Madison, Clinton, Westbrook, Old Saybrook, New London or Mystic.
     
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  16. Born in Stamford in the Cove area. Lived in Norwalk for 30 years. Bridgewater 14.
     
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  17. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,171

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    The fairly common theme of many of the posts in this thread comprise a litany of grievances, real and/or imagined, against some profession or business. It's always the "dealer", the "realtor", the "middleman" who is a worthless piece of excrement........with a 'generous' allowance that, well, it's not ALL of that category who are lowlifes.

    That is both laughable and very sad. What is so grossly overlooked is that ALL people are capable of undesirable behavior. The difference is NOT that some are business people and the others, The Pure of Heart, are customers or the public in general.

    But the truth is, any person who has worked in a business, whether an employee or as a owner, can tell you dozens or hundreds of stories of dishonest, lying, cheating people they have encountered along the way. But I will 'generously allow' that not ALL customers are these things.

    The Simple Fact is human nature contains potential for some very dark behavior. The difference between really good folks and varying degrees of less admirable folks is upbringing, self discipline, a philosophy of life (ethics), etc. It IS NOT their choice of occupation...it is their choice of standards by which they live. Period.

    Ray
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
  18. corncobcoupe
    Joined: May 26, 2001
    Posts: 5,670

    corncobcoupe
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    Be thankful Ryan has the website to enjoy.......
    Period.
    Not ALL dealers are dishonest, liars are cheats.

    Short version.......

    Some Dealers / middle men look at a car (doesn't matter what car ) as a only a buck first.
    Car guys look at cars to enjoy first and make a buck second.
    I don't think that's hard to understand.

    If the shoe fits wear it.
    If not, then get it or get over it.
     
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  19. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 19,847

    Ryan
    ADMINISTRATOR
    Staff Member

    I've ran this joint for over 20 years... and I've never been given a single hot check. That's crazy to me. Not a single bounce. I know, not exactly on topic... but the point is, I believe 99.99% of car guys are solid honest people.

    And it never ceases to amaze me how good the folks are here.
     
  20. 4psi
    Joined: Nov 30, 2011
    Posts: 283

    4psi
    Member

    I am glad you were able to keep your shop going, while doing something you enjoy. That's all that matters. I don't hate the player, or the game.

    -Charlie
     
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  21. Yeah, but Ryan tends to tilt at windmills with a misplaced utopian bent on occasion and this was just a more egregious-than-usual example...
     
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  22. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,704

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If a man defines a situation as real, it's real in its consequences.
    pseudo intellectualizing at its best.
     
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  23. One thing I think everyone is missing here is the fact that these 'bad' players are in a minority. If it were common, that would be 'normal' and unremarkable and you wouldn't end up with these whine-fests. By the same token, if everyone did it 'for the love of the hobby', that would be unremarkable and you wouldn't hear those stories either. The reality is somewhere in the middle; most buyers and sellers reach a price both can live with, and life goes on.
     
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  24. flamingokid
    Joined: Jan 5, 2005
    Posts: 2,200

    flamingokid
    Member

    I've always thought that advertising folk were pretty useless.They add nothing to the finished product and they take away from this thing we love by removing cash from our ecosystem without adding any value what-so-ever. They are leaches.Dishonest,immoral,they should be rounded up and flogged. ;)
     
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  25. Caveat Emptor, Buyer beware. Whatever, I've been screwed a couple of times in the past and usually just suck it up and go on. Kind of embarrassing to admit I didn't do my homework or didn't see the red flag in someone's personality.
    I've read most of this thread this afternoon and it has got some interesting opinions, some I agree with others I find way off base. Which is which is my opinion and I will keep that to myself. ;)

    Happy New Year!
     
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  26. We're not that good, us hoodlums. Me thinks you pounded down a few more drinks!
     
  27. HotrodHR
    Joined: Jul 12, 2010
    Posts: 209

    HotrodHR
    Member

    You're absolutely right... the cost to restore most often exceeds the value of the vehicle. Unfortunately the quick flip TV shows, auctions (no names needed here) give some folks the ide that if they restored their 1982 Plymouth K-car should fetch them enough money to retire on.

    The best way in my opinion to buy a classic, hot rod or collectible is find one that's already restored, or one that just needs updating or freshened up. It helps if you can do most of the work yourself... but for most making a killing on fixing up old cars and reselling is not realistic. I know there is always the exception...
     
  28. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 8,280

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    Y'all wanna buy a car? This un's got a fire a fiddle and 5 white sides ;)
     
  29. And now let's take brief break for a hot band that is really coming up the charts. SHITSTORM!
     
  30. Been noticing that on-line ads for the same car are showing up under multiple "Dealers" Thinking folks are grabbing ads from other sites and creating fake dealerships. Is that possible in this age of safe and secure web shopping?
     
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