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FE Experts:Interchangeability>390>406>427?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Jeff Norwell, Feb 11, 2011.

  1. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 1,438

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    The Holy Grail of intakes for all but the HR & TP (but it was made from the similar TP intake) is the Tunnel Wedge- just sold this NOS one a few months ago- note the short MR-type later ports

    The '65-up blocks have 4 mounting bolt holes, not 3. Some mounts only use 3 of them, but 4 are available


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2011
  2. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,758

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    Thank you very much!!! I too am looking for the right dash and garnish molding color and texture. Your link answered my questions. It's going to be warm enough to paint pretty soon. I'm stoked. One of the problems I still needed to solve. That is a bitchin car. thanks again.
     
  3. Del Swanson
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 709

    Del Swanson
    Member
    from Racine, WI

    AHH '56 Medalist, the one that got away! I should never have sold it!
    Jeff, speaking from experience, you'll have a hard time wiping the grin off your face when you mash the go petal! The torque on the FE's is incredible. I have a 390 right now waiting to go into a '48 ford coupe. From what I understand the restriction on stock FE's is breathing.
     
  4. Jeff Norwell
    Joined: Aug 20, 2003
    Posts: 12,967

    Jeff Norwell
    MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    Can Hardly wait Del.
    What are anyones thoughts on Edelbrock aftermarket heads and bumpstick?
    Anyone have expeirence with that set up?
    I imagine it may be pricey....
     
  5. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 1,438

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    The 390-428 Ebocks are the ones to use, have a modern heart-shaped chamber and run pretty good, just a bit stronger than the LR-CJ head. You can do a lot better than the Ebock cam
     
  6. AnimalAin
    Joined: Jul 20, 2002
    Posts: 3,417

    AnimalAin
    Member

    The Edelbrock heads are competitively priced, but more than heads you already have. They are probably less than comparable (flow/hp) iron heads you might pursue. I think if you compare them with having to redo the stock heads, and also consider the cost per horsepower, they are a good deal.

    The Edelbrock cam will likely work fine, but not as well as one specifically chosen for your application by a cam vendor with quite a few more items in his catalog. Consider hydraulic or solid roller cams if you are somewhat more serious about hp.
     
  7. slickhale
    Joined: Dec 19, 2010
    Posts: 756

    slickhale
    Member
    from Phoenix

    [​IMG]

    great, now i'm off to the garage to attempt to make some of these bitchin headers, as if the H.A.M.B didnt eat up enough of my time
     
  8. rollingbones 1
    Joined: Feb 18, 2007
    Posts: 57

    rollingbones 1
    Member
    from UPSTATE NY

    You guy's in Palookaville need to have more faith in the Y- Block!!!!!!!!!!
     
  9. Jeff Norwell
    Joined: Aug 20, 2003
    Posts: 12,967

    Jeff Norwell
    MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    Oh Oh!..I think I stirred the pot now! ha ha ha :)
     
  10. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,758

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    [​IMG]

    Nothing wrong with a Y block. This is the one that I let get away. 292 3sp/OD. I'm building the 56 to fill the empty spot in my heart since it's been gone.:D
     
  11. KULTULZ
    Joined: Apr 10, 2007
    Posts: 328

    KULTULZ
    Member

    <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="645" height="2284"><tbody><tr></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;">
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    </td></tr><tr><td width="15" height="119">
    </td> <td colspan="15" valign="top" height="119" nowrap="nowrap">406

    The 406 block was a brute from the start because it reflected Ford’s desire to race and to win. As
    you might expect from a race block, the 406 was a heavier casting than the 332/ 352/361/390—
    thicker cylinder walls, a larger 4.13-inch bore, thicker webs and main caps. Look for C2AE-J, C2AE-
    K or C2AE-V. These upgrades are all products of the 390 High Performance engine and what was
    learned from racing with the 390. The 406 didn’t make it through 1962 without significant changes
    to the block, however.
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="16" width="645" height="16">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td width="15" height="90">
    </td> <td rowspan="3" valign="top" height="252">[​IMG]</td> <td colspan="14" width="462" height="90">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td width="15" height="153">
    </td> <td width="12" height="153">
    </td> <td colspan="7" valign="top" height="153" nowrap="nowrap">Early 406 blocks are
    identified by the casting
    number on the right-hand
    side of the block. This is a
    C2AE-J block. Notice the
    "HP" cast near the casting
    number along with the "DIF"
    which means "Dearborn Iron
    Foundry."
    </td> <td colspan="6" width="263" height="153">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td width="15" height="9">
    </td> <td colspan="14" width="462" height="9">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="16" width="645" height="18">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td width="15" height="136">
    </td> <td colspan="15" valign="top" height="136" nowrap="nowrap">Although we associate the cross-bolted block design with the 427 to come later in 1963,
    cross-bolted mains started with the 406. During severe duty conditions experienced at high rpms in
    NASCAR racing, Ford quickly learned that the main bearing cap bolts had a tendency to work
    loose, causing catastrophic engine failure. Cross-bolting #2, 3 and 4 main bearing caps solved this
    problem and won Ford a few races. Identifying a 406 cross-bolt block is easy. Aside from the
    obvious, the date code, look for the 4.13-inch bores and cross-bolted main caps/ bosses. The
    bottom line here is the bottom line. Because 406 cross-bolt blocks are extremely rare, expect to pay
    a very high price. Look for the C2AE-BD casting number.

    Source- http://www.mre-books.com/interchange/interchange11.html
    </td></tr></tbody></table>
     
  12. 390/330hp (P-code) cars had 406 type cast iron free-flowing headers, solid lifters,dual point centrifugal advance distributors, single 4 barrel Holley carbs,etc. as I recall. Should be able to put a 327/300hp Chevy on the trailer with relative ease. It have been worn out if it was, in fact, a 330hp.
     
  13. rollingbones 1
    Joined: Feb 18, 2007
    Posts: 57

    rollingbones 1
    Member
    from UPSTATE NY

    Jeff, Next time your in town, I'll show you my buddies 58 custom with 427 & all the goodies.Also there was a fe guru at the party last weekend, if I wasnt so drunk I could have introduced you to him,he has a lot of parts,and cars,to name a couple of my favorites,his latest is a 64 thunderbolt clone,& 31 vicky also 427 powered.And the best part he lives down the road from "DOZERS"!
     
  14. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 18,545

    Deuces
    Member
    from Michigan

    Any info on the 375 horse and the 401 horse 390 motors??? Not enough info about these bad boys.. :(
     
  15. Relic Stew
    Joined: Apr 17, 2005
    Posts: 1,123

    Relic Stew
    Member
    from Wisconsin

  16. Jeff Norwell
    Joined: Aug 20, 2003
    Posts: 12,967

    Jeff Norwell
    MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    relic.. that's some great info and great links! thanks!
     
  17. Jeff Norwell
    Joined: Aug 20, 2003
    Posts: 12,967

    Jeff Norwell
    MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    Keith....You got a plan!:)
     
  18. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 1,438

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    Very similar to the 406, with smaller bores- solids, aluminum 4V or 6V intakes, cast headers, high pressure oiling, etc. 406 was the next evolution.
    I sold a '61-specific 3-deuce intake to Floyd Garrett about a month ago for his personal '61 401HP Starliner
     
  19. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,758

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    [​IMG]

    Don't forget the 352 that started all this FE madness.
     
  20. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 1,438

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    Somewhere in a box I have a '61 Hot Rod "Yearbook", about 3/4" thick, with the disassembled '61 HP engines laid out the way they used to, all parts in nice lines, 390 Ford, 409 Chebbie, etc. Also has some good pics of Eddie Hill's twin Pontiac dragster with the twin whitewall slicks
     
  21. OneBad56
    Joined: Dec 22, 2008
    Posts: 534

    OneBad56
    Member

    Jeff, there is a soft cover book that was just published on the FE and is avaialble through Amazon.ca and is about 25 dollars:

    publisher: CarTech
    title: how to build max performance ford fe engines
    author: barry rabotnick

    Barry is a renowned engine builder and one of the top experts on FE engines and knows how to build reliable and streetable 500HP monsters as well as full race 800HP.

    book is very good as each chapter is dedicated to a specific engine part, so its talks about all the blocks, the heads, the intakes, cams, etc., what ones are the best as well as performance tips.

    good resource material to have on hand.
     
  22. KULTULZ
    Joined: Apr 10, 2007
    Posts: 328

    KULTULZ
    Member

    The 1962/1965 390CI 330HP was available only with the AUTOLITE 4100 and a vacuum advance distributor-

    It had to remain streetable.

    While the 330HP was a Special Order (POLICE/ P-CODE) on a FORD, it was a readily available option on MERC.

    The block was different from the 1961 390CI 375HP. The 61 390HP was an extension of the 60 352CI 360HP engine, which itself was an extension of the early 1958 352 (INTERCEPTOR) solids engine.

    FORD did not get serious until the late production 406 and 1964 427LR/HR and the 427MR in 1965.
     

    Attached Files:

  23. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,758

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]

    Here is the Ford info from Hotrod yearbook No. 1 that mg427 mentioned. I just happened to know where it was. That's rare for me.
     
  24. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 1,438

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    As soon as I saw the first picture, I knew you had one too :eek: :D
    Haven't looked at it in a few years, it's in the big box upstairs in the shop with my old Sports Car Graphics, Road & Tracks, Car 7 Drivers, and my old Watkins Glen programs from the '60's 'n '70's

    If you look at the pics of the 3-deuce in the yearbook, you can see the two mount bosses on either side of the breather hole at the back of the manifold, look like little towers, sometimes drilled & tapped, sometimes not, that are '61 specific, never seen a '62- up with them. The bosses on the one I just sold Garrett were drilled & tapped, and his Starliner has a ground strap from the firewall attached to one, the ones in the yearbook are not. '61's typically don't have a date code on them, later ones have it on top of the thermostat housing
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2011
  25. Pir8Darryl
    Joined: Jan 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,489

    Pir8Darryl
    Member

    Damn Gene, You take this stuff rather seriously, dont you? :D
     
  26. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 1,438

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    My dad bought that yearbook- and we started going to the Glen in'65. Still have a couple boxes of slides that I took in the mid-'60's- got a good "before" one of Mark Donahue's Penske Sunoco T-70 that burned to the ground just past the first turn. Bob Bondurant went by me upside down & backwards, 10 ft off the ground at 150 on the front straight, broke both his legs when he hit- got a pic of what was left of the McLaren on the lower level of the flatbed transporter, below Peter Revson's car. How about a pic of George Wintersteen's Corvette GranSport roadster? The 289 Cobra and GT350R teams used to rent GT350H's for the weekend, and park them in the pits- saw not one, but two have the engines pulled, installed in the wounded race car, and run in the race, put back later :rolleyes:
     
  27. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 18,545

    Deuces
    Member
    from Michigan

    Love to read about those '66 GT-350H storys.. :D
     
  28. Blah blah blah engines
    but ya gotta switch the stock taillites to 58 edsel wagons .... Please!!!!

    AT LEAST WITH THE BACK UP LITES IN THE CENTER OF THE STOCK ONES
     

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