Hot Rods Fairlane I6, 170 ignition help

Okay maybe this topic has already been beaten to death but bear with me.

I have a 64 fairlane with the early 170 with the 1/4" distributor drive. I wanted to update the igniton and was turned onto a NOS Mallory dual points module which I purchased. I have heard that the original load-o-matic sucked and to get one with a mechanical advance. This unit I bought is all mechanical advance? No vacuum at all? Am I going to run into problems using this?
I also purchased a MSD 6A and blaster coil and new wires for better performance?

Does this sounds correct to you classic gurus?
Thanks in advance!
Jeanette

 

Did you get the spec sheet with the NOS distributor that tells what the total advance is?

Either yes or no, you still "should" set the timing using a timing light that can show how many degrees total advance at a certain high RPM. You'd check the specs for total advance for your car using a shop manual, and at the RPM in the book that it shows for total.

Let's say the dist lacks the total advance compared to a stock distributor for your model...You would be forced to have your idle timing farther advanced. That "might" make the motor kick harder when starting with a hot motor. Maybe not, so give it a try.

In other words, your stock distributor timing was meant to be set at idle. Now it must be set by the total amount of advance. You can't set it by the old way at idle.

 

still have your stock distributor....not sure what you are trying to gain from your 170 cuin

 

Well I'm not trying to gain anything other than maybe a little pep. Right now it runs well, but it suffers from erratic hard starts and if I have to pass somebody on the freeway it'll hiccup a bit before it kicks in. I'm not looking for any HP gains. And I don't have a lot of money into these parts so I figured what the hell? Maybe they'll add something. If not you'll see them in the parts section...haha

 

And yes it lists various timing points, dwell, total etc.

 

Without a vacuum advance your mileage will definitely suffer.

 

It will run much better than the loadomatic and I bet the mileage will go up.

 

Okay so the distributor arrived in the mail today and the instructions say it does have vacuum and centrifugal advance.
Clearly I'm still learning about these things. I assumed since it didn't have a vacuum pot it didn't. It looks to have a block off plate where the vacuum port would be?

 

I haven't run a vacuum advance in years, I always use Mallory unless I have a small block and can land a delco unit from an old vette and my mileage is fine. granted I am a tuner by nature. LOL

Something else I have noticed that everyone says is about smoking, I quit smoking for 12 years when I was in my early 30s and it was supposed to give me better stamina and make my food taste better. never happened.

I think people think things that just are not necessarily true.

On the 6 unless I was changing the cam shaft or induction or both I would like to run a stock-ish distributer as in vac advance stock. Maybe not the loadomatic and maybe converted to points but a stock style distributer. mechanical advance is for hot rods and other types of go fast vehicles.

The block off plate is where a tach drive would have been if it had one. Mallory from the era that your distributer was made didn't use two housings they just didn't put the tack drive in all of them.

If yiou look at then nut looking dealy to the left of the block off plate in the pic I'll bet you find a female thread for a male flare type of a fitting. it is called an inverted flair and is used a lot in the automotive industry. If you look at your lodomatic vac fitting I'll just about bet it will screw right in there.

 

Then you don't understand the Falcon 6, in the context of the Load-O-Matic era.

The original distributor functioned so poorly when it was brand-new, that it crippled what little chance for power that the engine had.

Coupled with the absolutely incorrect size carburetor and Ford had the perfect recipe for establishing a reputation for these engines not being viable.

Swapping out the distributor for one with proper centrifugal and vacuum advance, and the carburetor for a two-barrel progressive one, is good for 30-actual-horsepower at the rear wheels, on an engine in good condition.

Oh, and that's on top of a PERFECTLY functioning Load-O-Matic. If yours is worn the difference will be even greater.

Don't believe me? Come for a ride in my '60, at 100, with 144, and a 6-speed. Zero internal mods.

 

It does look like it has a vac fitting like Beaner said, at that hex nut.

I have no idea if your vac line at the carb is ported vac or not. Someone here should know.

I like to test things first. I'd get a spare vac line to hook the distributor fitting to your carb, without even installing the distributor. Then start the car and see if the point plate seems to start advancing as soon as you start to raise the idle....or, does it go to full advance right at idle?.

or, just install the dist, and see how the timing mark moves.

As far as carb swaps; I only did one 170 motor. It was a 67 Mustang conv that sat in a damp barn, stuck pistons, and the carb was sitting on a dirt floor in water totally rotted

I could not locate a new 170 carb on the net and had to settle for a NOS 68? 200? carb on ebay. It wasn't even close. I had to mickey-mouse quite a few things to even make it fit/work, but it was a resale car that just needed to "run". It did run really nice though. I think the air cleaner would not fit at all, not sure.

 

Okay so reading the instructions a few times has cleared the air for me.
It looks like I remove the spark advance on my carb and hook up the fitting that was included for the vacuum. So that's clear now.

Gimpy it was posts that lead me to seek out a mechanical advance distributor in the first place so thanks for commenting!

 

I do have 2 more questions though.
Can the distributor run either direction? Mine has an arrow for right hand rotation?
Second, I'm assuming the condensor is bad from sitting for 50yrs...where might I source a new one?

Thanks again, Jeanette

 

The condenser is not bad from sitting, it could be but that is not a given. You cannot find a new trash can condenser like that one they quite making them a long time ago and they are very desirable. First try that one, if it is bad you can buy a condenser any place that you can buy points it is just a 12v condenser when you ask for one. Ford Chebby Olds it doesn't care. The top comes off of that old condenser you can open it up and gut it then put the new condenser inside it.

Yes it has to turn in the proper direction the advance works my moving the point plate (some GMs move the rotor), if it moves in the opposite direction for the rotation of the distributer it will retard the spark and not advance it. If that is the proper distributer for your engine you are fine don't sweat it. Pay attention to the rotation of the distributer the spark plug wires go on in that direction, IE number one goes where it goes then the next wire in the firing order goes after number 1 in the same direction as the rotation of the distributer.

 

A distributor cannot be used for both rotations. If it was opposite, the timing would retard instead of advancing.

Look at you rotor to see which way your dist rotates. Or look in a Manual. I can't believe it would be wrong, if that Mallory was made for your motor

on that condenser, I spotted that too. It might be good, but I'd want a spare in the glovebox... Someone here will know where to get one, and if not, do a search here for Bubba. I don't know his hamb name, but everyone uses him for ignition parts and rebuilds.

 

NAPA, Oreilly's autozone. Any auto parts should have one. No one is going to have a new big one like that one. Not even Mallory.

 

don't know about that one, but i have an old mallory and it has a vacuum brake. i hear that bubba can supply rebuild services and parts.

 

It's interesting. Some folks, perhaps after reading J Hinckley, (not the guy who tried to assassinate President Reagan) condemn ported vacuum for , among other things, causing overheating at idle.

It's true that ignition timing retarded from (always changing) optimum means some of the heat/pressure energy from combustion does not get converted to mechanical work, so the exhaust gas is much hotter when the ex valve opens.
OEM vac advance is likely to add 10 or more degrees ignition advance when cruising to reach the best torque setting.
Imagine when rolling down the highway, making20-30 more HP than when idling, how much more exhaust gas is bathing the ex valve in fire if the vac advance is missing.
Never mind the couple of extra mpg, or the part throttle HP and response that is being thrown away.

 

Thanks everyone for replies!
I will check on the rotation in my fairlane when it stops raining here.

I put an ohm meter on the condenser but didn't see any movement, as far as charging it goes? It's brand new, this distributor is a NOS and never been used?

 

Also it looks like this push in style cap is very desirable? Maybe I should put it on the shelve and buy a cheapo?

 

"Imagine when rolling down the highway, making20-30 more HP than when idling, how much more exhaust gas is bathing the ex valve in fire if the vac advance is missing."


I'm lost with what you mean.. If you take out a vac/mech dist, and install a mech-only dist, you always need to set timing at full advance at a specific high RPM. The drawback is you normally end up with more initial advance at idle.


Back to the condensers; They are capacitors with various specs. Our old gas Dozer had a bad condenser after sitting all winter. It's a Wico mag that I could not just get one at a local store, so I used one of many new condensers I have. It was a smaller one from a Japanese car. It lasted 20 minutes. I then found the biggest condenser I had, and it is still running after a year. I'd tell Bubba which Mallory dist, and which hotter coil I had, to get something reliable for road use.

 

So looking in my manual it does show the load-o-matic rotating clockwise as looking at it from above. The same as the mallory.

 

I will contact Bubba, thanks.

 

Never checked one with Ohm, but if you disconnect the wire, you can see if it holds a charge by feeding it 12v for a moment. Then use a insulated jumper wire to short the terminal to ground. It should give a faint spark I would think. I know a good condenser when charged, will knock you silly, if you touch the terminal

That Mallory cap. You might be forced to use it. I am not sure if a normal dist cap will fit?

 

OHMs are resistance not voltage. If it shows zero that it is showing closed or a completed circuit.

Instead of playing detective put it on the car and fire it up if it doesn't fire then start looking for a reason.

I think in a different post you mentioned putting it on a shelf, why on earth would you do that? That distributer was not made to be looked at it was made to be used and used hard.

Reminds me of a song, " They took all the trees and put 'em in a tree museum . . ." [Joni Mitchel]

 

I do love Joni Mitchel...
Haha smiling

Ok I will use the cap.
I will also just install it and see what happens.

Thanks I really appreciate your help you guys!
Stay tuned I'm sure I will have more questions.

 

Ok I just got time today to install this dual points mallory.

It's not starting though? Is that a sign the condensor may be bad?

I have confirmed the rotor is pointing to the number one spot when the engine is at TDC (timing mark at TDC) and I can see down in the piston that it's at the top. And the other wires are placed in the correct order.

 

Yes, but it might not be on top of the "compression" stroke. You could be 180 out on the timing.

Pull number one plug. Bumping the motor over a tiny bit at a time, with your finger in the hole. When you feel serious pressure starting, then see if the mark is getting close. Now turn the motor a bit more to get it lined up perfectly. Note; you will feel a tiny bit of pressure/wind on the exhaust stroke, so that's why I said "serious" pressure.

Bumping the motor can be done with a jumper wire from battery plus side, to the S terminal on solenoid...if you can reach it, while having your finger in number one cyl hole


After you get that done, and if it was, or wasn't correct, you can test the ign with a test light..

One side of test light grounded, other side of light goes to Minus on coil. Crank the engine over by key, and see if the light blinks steady. That is what you want...

-if the light stays on steady, not blinking, the points are not making good contact.

-if the light is not working at all, then something is grounded out in the distributor...that could be a shorted condenser, or could be a wire in the dist which is touching ground in there.

-I'd have to look at your Mallory pic to see how the wires are run, but if you suspect a shorted condenser, you need to unhook the condenser, but still having the wire from Minus on coil, hooked to the points. Then crank to see if the test light will blink during cranking.

 

Sorry, I forgot to say that when you do get the piston to Top Dead Center, on the compression stroke, you then need to make sure the rotor is pointing to number one wire, not the exact opposite side of dist cap.

One more thing on "presetting" the initial timing; When you do get the marks aligned at TDC number one compression stroke, the "cam" that opens the points, should be almost starting to open the points. If the points are fully open already, the timing is advanced a lot if the rotor is at number one. If the cam is not very close to start opening the points, it is retarded a lot.

 

Okay I'm not to savvy about this but did you mean neg on the distributor?
I put it on there and cranked the key with the light ground and in the "on" position it was solidly lit, then when cranking it dimmed? Not really a flicker?

I'm gonna check next to see if I have the engine on TDC but 180 off.