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Technical F100 brake conversion question

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by 54BOMB, Aug 2, 2015.

  1. 54BOMB
    Joined: Oct 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,101

    54BOMB
    Member

    Hi, I've been searching for a while but I'm not seeing the answer. I've got this f100 conversion to the 1940 spindles Got the inner bearing fitting flush against the shoulder and I have two sets of hubs that are supposed to be the 53-56 , they both fit the same , speedway bearing kit . The problem is the hub won't go on the last 1/4" . The outer bearing is riding on the spindle threads , drum won't go on all the way etc.
    I'm guessing this is the wrong hub. Any ideas? Should be super easy.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 2,147

    deathrowdave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NKy

    It is the correct hub . 48 -52 is early hub 53-56 is late hub . I did plenty of these is the past . Takes a special bearing and race . PM me to remind me I have needed info just can't put my hand on it and I will forget it if you don't remind me to look for it . Sorry , nuts I think anymore !
     
  3. Pete
    Joined: Mar 8, 2001
    Posts: 4,526

    Pete
    Member

    Is the inner race pressed in all the way?
     
  4. 54BOMB
    Joined: Oct 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,101

    54BOMB
    Member

    It's got a lip inside and the race is all the way down. Unless these hubs are different that what I think there are , I really don't get why this won't just slide on .
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. Maybe these will help you figure out what is going on. F-100 hub with 14116 inner and 09067 outer bearing ( a B-1216 outer is a little taller; but still works). Regular '37 up nut and washer. Last picture is hub sitting nose down on table, approx. 4-1/2" overall size.
    P8020001.JPG P8020002.JPG P8020004.JPG P8020009.JPG
     
  6. 54BOMB
    Joined: Oct 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,101

    54BOMB
    Member

    Thanks Rich , so my hub measured the same . I'm starting to think , as odd as it sounds this spindle isn't right . The outer bearing isn't going to be riding on the castle nut threads and when I put the drum on it won't get close to the backing plate . Going to look for another spindle to try out .
     
  7. 54BOMB
    Joined: Oct 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,101

    54BOMB
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  8. 29AVEE8
    Joined: Jun 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,384

    29AVEE8
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  9. 54BOMB
    Joined: Oct 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,101

    54BOMB
    Member

    I had read that couple years ago when I sold some '40 brakes to get this f100 set up , hadn't tried to fit it all together until today. It's so easy , I don't get it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2015
  10. Couple more pictures. The picture of your spindle looks a little different; looks
    like there is a step where the outer bearing diameter starts to transition to the taper to the inner bearing.
    P8030001.JPG P8030004.JPG
    Have seen the spindle snout shortened, turned down, and threaded deeper for some early disc conversions; either Volvo or 4 piston Mustang.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2015
  11. Pete
    Joined: Mar 8, 2001
    Posts: 4,526

    Pete
    Member

    Maybe a dumb question but:

    Are you using the correct bearings and matched races? The stock passenger car bearings are different.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2015
  12. Pete
    Joined: Mar 8, 2001
    Posts: 4,526

    Pete
    Member

    Here's pics of my F1 hubs with the conversion races installed and the bearings.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Pull the hub off and remove the backing plate then put the hub back on and verify the fit. Eliminate any possible interference between drum and backing plate.
     
  14. 54BOMB
    Joined: Oct 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,101

    54BOMB
    Member

    Yes I got the bearing kit for this through speedway , double checked the numbers and they match the online info. The spindle measures the same as the one in the picture. It's got to be the hub, the race and bearing are as far down as they can go and it just doesn't slide on far enough. It's frustrating cause I have two sets of hubs , they fit the same . They were both supposed to be the 53-56 .
    They look just like yours and the spacing at the inner bearing looks the same.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2015
  15. 54BOMB
    Joined: Oct 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,101

    54BOMB
    Member

    With the hub and bearing on ,the drum doesn't even get to the backing plate. With hub off the drum fits the backing plate like it should .
     
  16. Since the spindle snout is right, the overall size of the hub measures right, and the bearings are the right ones; I measured a couple more things, something has to be different. Distance between the bottom of the bores where the races seat is approx. 2-9/16", the distance between the outer edge of the bearings when they are sitting in the hub is approx. 4-1/16", the wheel mounting flange is 2-1/4" tall when the hub is sitting on a table, and an F-100 drum is just under 3" deep. How does this jive with your parts?
    HUB MEASUREMENT.JPG IMG_3460.jpg
     
  17. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 2,147

    deathrowdave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NKy

    The info I have I had to radius the square shoulder on the inner bearing and remove some material from the top of the spinal near the king pin . Mine also fit like a glove no issues . I do not remember the spinal have that square of a shoulder . Are you sure it doesn't have a spacer (?) pressed onto it for some strange reason
     
  18. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 2,147

    deathrowdave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NKy

    I get looking at this and I think the radius on the bearing could be your issue . Try to install the bearing by its self and see if goes home on the spindle
     
  19. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 2,147

    deathrowdave
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    from NKy

    I think but not sure I read , 89 -90 Bronco same measurements on the drum . Looks different on the outside , 1/2 the cost of early drums
     
  20. 54BOMB
    Joined: Oct 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,101

    54BOMB
    Member

    Yep those two measurement match. The spindle is just a normal repop 37-41 style . Looks like others on the Internet .
    Thanks for your help .
     

    Attached Files:

  21. 54BOMB
    Joined: Oct 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,101

    54BOMB
    Member

    The inner bearing right up against the lip of the spindle , I took a little grinder and smoothed the edge so it goes on and off easy , it's flush as it's going to get :)
     

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  22. 19Fordy
    Joined: May 17, 2003
    Posts: 6,815

    19Fordy
    Member

    Here is an excellent article on what you are doing.
    http://www.hotrodhotline.com/md/html/f100_brakes_for_early_fords.php
     
  23. The Bronco rear drums work as an economical alternative for F-1 drums(F-1 hubs have a different offset). F-100 drums are readily available in the automotive aftermarket.
     
  24. You do have 2" brake shoes?
     
  25. 54BOMB
    Joined: Oct 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,101

    54BOMB
    Member

  26. 54BOMB
    Joined: Oct 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,101

    54BOMB
    Member

    Yes , the new shoes and drums are all from Napa and matched the cores I took off . Bought shoes, wheel cylinders , drums all for a 56 ford f100 . By the way the drums were only 44 bucks each , not over 100 for the restoration drums on the 39 Lincoln or 40 fords , part of the reason I went this route .
    I'm going to look for a different spindle to borrow and try the whole package there.
     
  27. Couple more pictures to compare to your set-up.
    P8030007.JPG
    About 1 thread showing beyond nut when hubs seated.
    P8030005.JPG
    Distance from hub face to flange on backing plate.
    P8030006.JPG
    Distance from hub face to edge of shoe.
    P8030008.JPG
    Drum seats fully on hub pilot.
    P8030009.JPG
    Drum mates with flange on backing plate and turns free.

    Something weird has to be going on with your parts; I've done many of these conversions in the past and installed three or four this year so far with no grief; also sold quite a few sets of reconditioned F-100 & F-1 brakes with no report of installation/parts problems.
     
  28. 54BOMB
    Joined: Oct 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,101

    54BOMB
    Member

    Here is the distance between the drum and backing plate , looks close to yours , but I guess what is still bugging me is that the outer bearing is riding on the threads on the end of the spindle. That can't be ok , is it ? If that's the acceptable way this works , then I'm pretty embarrassed to drag this out .
     

    Attached Files:

  29. Relationship of the nut to the end of the spindle looks right in the above picture. Looking back at your earlier picture; it appears that the aftermarket spindle is threaded deeper than a Ford spindle, hard to count; but it looks like four or five threads. With the 3/4-20 threads, you're probably seeing about two tenths of an inch more threads. Think it would be OK, the bearing doesn't turn and the OD should of the threads is still (should be) 3/4".
     

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