The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Big A, Oct 14, 2021.
Damn Lloyd, I hope Ashley is ok.
What a dick.
In the last two weeks I've had someone blow stop signs.
One was a kid in a 98-02 Accord sedan. Cruising home after picking up the kid. Barely missed em, then he sat there indigent like I was the one blowing stop sign.
Yesterday, again picking up the kid, come to a 4 way. Stop, go, penzoil. Culvert makes it a slow pass through, get the front end out of the dip and the car that was half a block away was still chugging along with no intention of stopping. Jammed on the brakes again and stopped, she kept going. Blew the horn and the look of confusion on her face as 'I appeared out of nowhere' while she was blowing the stop sign. Just sat there staring at the car. 99-02 Corolla. Again blocking the intersection. Blew the horn again to snap her out of her stupid stare. 'Shut-up!' Really lady, you just blew a stop sign and nearly killed yourself.
Be careful out there folks, the 'Rona has made people even more stupid.
She's good brother. Broke her heart more than anything. She babys that vehicle. We paid a LOT of money for it. This shit can happen at any time. Stay alert, treat every intersection as the deadliest intersection in the world.
Had a ot catch fire going down the road a few years ago, time drags when trying to get stopped, out of the way and not run over.
Every time I hop in, yes. Most of the time I grasp at the carpet on the B pillar behind my shoulder for the belt that's not there...
I've had a few close calls- stamp on the brakes, then off the brakes and swerve to avoid people pulling out of intersections. Usually they stop, don't bother looking and then just go.
Sorry it happened to you, glad you got it of it as unscathed as you describe. The A took that impact incredibly well, much better than I thought it would, but it's strongest from front to back, I guess.
I always have people comment about getting into a wreck, in "real proper American steel", but if you look at the structure of the front of the car there's nothing really significant in terms of strength other than the chassis, and that's far too low to hit any structural part of any modern vehicle, so the firewall would be taking the force of the engine hitting it, pulling all the strength out of the shape by pushing it into a V and then the fenders would crush in. Compared to a car with a strong body tub and collapsible outer sections, the design is terrible.
So yeah, I treat every vehicle on the road mentally as if they're being driven by a 10 year old kid. Driving, plus looking at the rest of the road at the very verge of capability, and if anything does go awry it's never their fault....
Just assume they're all complete morons, drive as to the road conditions and occasionally pull over if you need because it's no fun being hustled.
I am so sorry to hear this. As a lot of others have pointed out cars can be replaced, people can't. This hobby of ours is supposed to be a fun diversion, but it gets serious sometimes too. Very sorry for your loss.
Thanks to everyone for the responses. Lots to think about.
I never thought about it much. The wife and I were in the 32 three window with a hard chop, stopped at Mcdonalds drive thru and ordered large drinks, when she handed them to me I couldnt get them thru the window without turning them sideway. I looked at the wife and said, Oh shit if we get in a wreak and the doors wont open I'm to fat to get out.
When I drive the coupe on the street I treat all other drivers, or should I say watch them like they are a strung out idiots. Drive extremely defensive. The world on the road has changed. And not for the better.
I feel that way to those that stand out ie... weaving, driving too fast or too slow, not signaling, braking for nothing...I don't paint all with the same brush...the perpetrators generally stand out for some reason...
Insurance companies/Lawyers - Never say anything that could possibly be construed as a tacit admission of any responsibility.
Why, to comfort your wife or to express your thoughts on his intellect in a manner that could have gotten you jailed.? Maybe both?
Here in my part of Colorado it seems to be a sport to run spot lights and signs and they give you the finger as they pass in front of you. I have driven 50 years and the last 10 seems the worst for running lights. They know that the odds of getting a ticket are slim to none but I am so tired of having my head on a swivel. Just my 2 cents
I almost hit two deer last month on my way home from a cruise night. I was running 70 and found that my A will lock all 4 wheels! Fortunately I was able to miss them!
cant happen , im potty trained....
Light turns green, wife says “what are you waiting for?”…..me……”stragglers”
I try not to think about getting in an accident in my hotrods. Just scares me even seeing other's cars wrecked!
1st reason I expect he would have liked to have been there, as it was and is his love. 2nd, he is a fireman that sees this routinely and I suspect would have handled the situation professionally...
Lawyers, Law and All aside, since I don't specialize in post accident etiquette...
I did initially question the other driver once I figured out from inside the cab gathering myself who he was and cordially asked how are the people in the other car...and later what he was doing and did say to him I got out of your way to spare us and then you turned right into me...wrong once, wrong twice...I said we are both alive the rest will sort itself out...I did also speak to the Officer at the scene as well to explain how we got where we did as the vehicles sat and he did say my story was verified by the other drivers admission...I stood my ground and just had seconds to think watching a car hurtling directly at me at again 45 to 50 mph with me doing similar...Al said he was doing 50...different impact but absolutely life threatening...
Everyone's situation varies...and I was in a state of shock initially but focused...he was initially freaking out arms in the air and on his head (he knew he royally f'd up)...and later refused ambulatory assistance...his call...I was impacted bleeding and had a couple assist with me while I gathered my fortunate self...
I did speak out as it was my right, alone and it was all for real...
The Ambulance crew did say when they got the call that they expected fatalities...we were both very fortunate...I know I was as I watched it ALL right to impact...every move he made...he deserved my cordial opinion...
Glad you are Ok. The car can be rebuilt, you not so much.
I’m really surprised how many responses include no seatbelts, or only lap belts. I put modern retractor lap and shoulder belts in everything - Hot Rod / Jeep / Austin Healey / Dune Buggy. whatever. There is always a way to add reinforcements and attaching points. Tuck them away when / if you want them to not be seen.
That said, you have to drive these things like a motorcycle - assume everyone is trying to kill you.
TRUST NO ONE, drive around with your head on a swivel. I drive my cars like I'm riding a motorcycle.......everyone is out to get you. The only time I can let up a little is when there's no one around and no side streets. That why I drive at night and now ride a motorcycle to work............people are just f'ing stupid.
The one new addition to my cars isn't seat belts, but it is for safety.....my $$$ safety. It's a dash cam, moveable from car to car
BTW glad you're ok and the car is fixable.
When I learned to drive there my driving instructor a.k.a. Dad drilled into my head to drive defensively. Still do that. Not to say that I won’t get in a wreck at some point.
Winter is approaching And people drive way over their head and snow when ice.
missseysdad1, If your seat belts are attached to a steel tubing crossmember but the seat is not also attached to that very same crossmember, the car probably much more UNSAFE then it would be without the belts attached to the crossmember. In a crash, if the seat moves one way, but the reinforced belts go a different direction, your body gets caught in the squeeze.
A lot of the modern vehicles have the seat belts (including the shoulder harness) attached to a reinforced seat frame, then that seat is attached to a reinforced floor pan. The job of the seat belt is to keep you in the seat, and the job of keeping the seat in the car is the job of the seat anchors. Often times its easier to reinforce the seat frame and add the belts, then reinforce the seat anchors to keep the seat in the car, then it is to figure out where and how to mount the seat belt locations on a car.
One more thing to consider. If I do not have seat belts in my ride and have a crash, the ride pretty well stops moving immediately. If I see it coming, maybe I can grip the steering wheel a bit tighter and stiffen my legs to brace for the sudden stop, but my 270lbs self will still be moving forward after the ride stops until something stops it. Whatever that is that stops my body is what causes the damage.
The idea of a lap belt holding me to the seat at the hips offers a lot of extra protection from the other hard parts inside my ride. From my hips upwards towards my head will still be moving forward, but now I at least bend at the hips (a natural bending point on my body). The top 1/2 will still continue moving forward (in an arch from the hips) until it encounter something hard to stop me, unless there isn't much to contact from the hips upward (your body will limit how far forward it will bend). If the steering column isn't moving towards you (collapsible column), your grip on the wheel may actually now assist in keeping you from getting major injuries.
When you add in a shoulder belt with the lap belt, the shoulder belts crosses over the front of you from the hip to the shoulder. That helps restrain the top 1/2 of you from moving forward. If the lap belt and the shoulder belt use the same single piece of webbing material, they work together better then if both were separate belts.
I do want to talk about belt anchor points a bit. In my opinion, as long as the belt anchor points do not fail completely in a crash, they have to help a lot more then if they were not there, as long as the belt anchor points themselves are place in the proper location to be effective.
On my latest truck, I have OEM factory style shoulder/lap belts with the locking retractors. The retractors are mounted to a reinforced area on the floor pan (a 3" round 1/8" plate with a 7/16" fine thread nut (the size of the anchor bolts I use) welded to the center of it and that plate is tack welded to the bottom of the floor pan), a couple inches from the rear of the door post. I've looked at thousands of auto factory seat belt mounting locations, and nearly all of them anchor the seat belts in the same way as this. The belt leaves the retractor and goes pretty much straight up to a pivot point on the door post where to slips through a pivot point bracket and travels back down to the lower anchor point on the door side of seat frame bracket (the same bracket the seat is attached to). The male buckle part of the belt slides between the upper pivot point and the seat bracket anchor. The female part of the buckle with the belt attached is anchored to the seat frame bracket near the trans tunnel (again, the same bracket the seat is attached to).
The challenges of this it that upper pivot point mounting location and how to reinforce it, and where the retractable assembly needs to be located.
The upper pivot point. I choose to use the door post at the rear of the front door whenever possible. It is generally the most reinforced area in the side of these old cars & trucks, its usually pretty accessible, and often the location is good. To do this correctly, the seat needs to be mounted in position, then you sit in the seat. The correct location for that top pivot point is 2" - 3" behind the front side of your shoulder, with your back against the seat back. Then it should be 2" - 3" above the top of your shoulder. That location isn't written in stone, and of course if there is more then one driver, adjustments may need to be done. The concept is the pivot point should be behind the shoulder, and even with or above the top of your shoulder. If it is not behind the shoulder, its not as effective at holding you properly in the seat. If its below the shoulder, it can cause lots of issues in a crash because the belt will pull your shoulder down in a crash, but if its too high, it could choke you in a crash because it could lift up around your neck. If you have multiple drivers there is actually an adjustable bracket available to raise and lower the pivot point height. Once the location is chosen for the mounting bolt, the reinforcing takes place. Most of the pivot mounting bolts (most seat belt bolts) are 7/16" diameter bolts or a metric equivalent, and that is nearly always a shouldered bolt, not a stud and nut. That means you have to come up with a way to get a 7/16" (or the proper size & thread count) nut into the door post at the correct height. I would much prefer that nut be welded onto a piece of steel that is inside of the post rather then a nut that is welded into the door frame. Its much harder to pull something through a hole then it is to pull something out of a hole. Remember that single bolt has to stop the largest part of my 270lbs self in a crash.
Fortunately most door posts are hollow, and most are accessible at both the top and the bottom. On my truck I could get a 1/8" x 1" flat stock up into the door post from the bottom and the post was wide enough for that piece to lay flat against the inside edge (where the bolt would be). I made that flat stock long enough I could reach it both on top of the post and below it. I drilled a slightly over sized hold for the bolt at the correct location on the door post for the pivot bolt. Then I slid the flat stock up into the post and marked the location for the bolt hole, then removed it, drilled a hole, and welded the correct nut to the back side of the flat stock. Then I reinstalled the flat stock into the post and screwed the pivot point into the nut to be sure everything was correct. I could have stopped at that point, but I pulled the bar out again and drilled 4 additional holes (1/4") spaced out the length of the door post. I cleaned up around the edges of the holes, then reinstalled the flat stock, reinstalled the pivot bolt and tightened it up, then plug welded the flat bar to the post through the holes just drilled. In a bad crash, when (not if) it moves, it has to pull the entire door post with it. You can reinforce the door post if it makes you feel better, but you do want to be sure the post is well attached to the floor at the bottom. That is as good as it can get.
With the pivot point bracket bolted in place, I could locate the retractor's proper location. The locking retractors have a swinging pendulum that lock the seat belt in place. When the pendulum is centered, the belt moves freely in and out to allow the passenger to move in the seat freely. When the pendulum moves off center (like it would in a crash), it locks the belt movement. As a side note, if your factory seat belts always locks you in the seat when you move around, the pendulum is probably not properly centered. The older retractor mechanisms were marked for its proper level mounting position, the newer ones, not so well. Find the position and angle the pendulum allows the belt to move the most freely, and choose a location so the belt pulls in the correct direction to that upper pivot point for that free movement. That is where that retractor needs to be mounted on your vehicle. I often use a custom made 1/4" plate to assist in mounting the retractor to the floor at the correct position so the belt moves freely. I like to keep the 1/4 plate as small as possible, and I want the retractor to be out of the way and as close to the floor as possible. The retractor is bolted to the bracket and the bracket is bolted to the floor pan (grade 8 bolts of the same size as the seat belt mounting bolts are) in an reinforced area like mentioned earlier.
Of course, this is how I've done them for years, and some have been field proven to work. However, I can not be held responsible for how it works on your ride. Gene
I don't worry about it too much, my car weighs around 4000 lbs so any newer plastic and tin foil vehicle will disintegrate if I hit them.
I haven't added lap belts yet, but may in the future. Just not sure how effective they might be, while they would keep my middle in place, my head might still hit the windshield. Doubt I'd ever do a shoulder belt, I don't trust the pillar to be strong enough for one.
My first was with a priest to be - he was a apprentice but still was wearing a collor. He backed out of a church parking lot and as I saw him I moved from the center lane over to the far left - he still tried to make the u-turn thru the center road divide and I clipped him with my left front to his left quarter.....cop still drew it up wrong and put the blame on me as I was a kid driving a 1965 Barracuda......still have the report somewhere. Then I was in my 1964 SS Nova with a 283.....oh well....it's all in the past.....
No, to keep my wife from freaking out. And to question the man than ran a stop sign, did $8500 worth of damage to my vehicle, and never had the fucking humanity to at least ask my wife if she was ok, when my wife DID check on him. All he cared about was trying to convince law enforcement that it was my wife's fault, when every witness stated what had actually happened. Right is right, wrong is wrong. I respond to hundreds of accidents a year and it's always the same thing. Doesn't matter who's at fault, human nature is to check on the other driver. Unless you're just a fucking dick. But thanks for educating me on the subject
Glad you are ok. Metal can be fixed.
This happened to me a few years ago. All my fault. Was pulling up behind an SUV and foot slipped off brake onto gas pedal. Slow speed but still $10k in damage. Not a scratch on the SUV the trailer hitch did all the work. It had 3 point belts as does the one in my avatar. Hoping not to need them again.
I don't even want to be on the roads of my city these days.
Six weeks ago the wife mobile got hit by a telecom truck towing a trailer, while parked. Still fighting insurance over that.
I would have been riding the motorcycle, but it got ran over while parked on the street. Still waiting on parts
Instead, I took to my bicycle, but was promptly hit by a car that pulled out of a parking space.
Took the bus for a couple of weeks while be waiting to for an the bicycle to get fixed.
Back in on the road today, and tonight I promptly got hit and taken to the ground by another bicyclist. He came up swinging a bike lock. I was already up, blade out. I saw him reach for the lock. He wisely fled. I lived on the streets for a long time before I got my act together, but I am getting too old for this crap.
I don't even want to take the Falcon out of the garage.
The hot rod is not done, and I am thinking about not finishing it
Lap belts and big ass fender washers are my safety devices…..
Had a '62 Nova that was white, and had just gotten it back on the road. A guy runs a stop sign, ends up right in
front of me, and I hit him square. He jumps out of his Honda and says, " I guess I should tell you that I'm a
lawyer....", so I said, "Well, I guess I should tell you that I'm an insurance agent..", to which he replied, "I guess
we're even!" I have chuckled many times about that. Ended up well, as I always wanted a silver Nova, so the
body shop changed the color for the insurance estimate plus $400 cash. Here is how it ended up.
A sobering thread to read. I thought of this video I saw
A crash test demonstration of a ‘09 Malibu vs a ‘59 Malibu. The old stuff is fun to drive but is pretty dangerous compared to the other cars on the road today. A topic like this makes me think of some of the rods that appear to be a competition to cobble together rolling scrap. Is it safe for the driver and people on the road? Good post, will make me more defensive behind the wheel…
Nice touch on the fuzzy dice in the ‘59.
The crash test demo might finally put to rest to old saw about old cars being a lot tougher than the new stuff.
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