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Etiquette of the Survivor

Discussion in 'Traditional Customs' started by J.Ukrop, Mar 17, 2017.

  1. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,506

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    No, meant it pretty much the way I wrote it, thought about it carefully, looked it over, edited here and there, made sure it was pretty clear before I posted it. I don't really see any rancor in what I said, and I don't really feel any about the subject anymore, did when I was younger, but I am long since past it. But I guess it helps "blunt the edge" of whats being said to read anger in where there isn't any. I feel I have actually summed up the "survivor" issue pretty accurately. And no, its not "all bad" I don't really see that my observations characterize it that way. Your mileage may vary...

    EDIT: Maybe look at post #28 as well, it elaborates a bit on the theme of my first post.
     
    redlineracer42 and tb33anda3rd like this.
  2. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,506

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Heres a story that illustrates the point I made in post #28 perfectly, the inspiring story of the Dennis DeBenidictus steel T bucket. Large colour photos in Hot Rod magazine on two separate occasions, cumulating in a two page spread in Hot Rod in 1969. So three appearances in hot Rod, several high profile show wins, photos in one of Andy Southards books, a well known, iconic, late sixties T-bucket.
    hrdp_1009_22_o+1966_to_1967_oakland_roadster_show+30_t_bucket_roadsters.jpg
    @steel rebel recently discovered the cars current whereabouts, it is being parted out and converted into an Ivo clone. From what I understand, it was pretty much intact when the current owner got it. Of course, most HAMBers will give this a big thumbs up, because the Ivo car fits the current fashion better than the DeBenidictus car, and lord only knows, if theres one thing the world needs more of, its Ivo clones.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
  3. 49ratfink
    Joined: Feb 8, 2004
    Posts: 16,097

    49ratfink
    Member
    from California

    I don't see nothing but ugly there...
     
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  4. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 6,978

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    Well you can't expect me to pass a chance to bust yer balls a little, can ya? ;):D:D:D I may have waxed on some too, a little at your expense but nuthin serious or personal.
     
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  5. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,506

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    I rest my case...
     
  6. 49ratfink
    Joined: Feb 8, 2004
    Posts: 16,097

    49ratfink
    Member
    from California

    to clarify, the Edsel, not the T. the T is bad ass. and even more bad asser cuz it looks like it is at Oakland.:)
     
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  7. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 21,168

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That is pretty well my exact feelings on the subject. I might take it around one season for show and tell in the as found shape while I dug through the old magazines and rattled brains that new the rig so I got it right when it was restored to as originally showed condition.

    A couple of years ago I passed on a Model A roadster that a guy up the road had for sale simply because it had too much history connected to the guy who had owned it for years and had painted the whole thing with a mural paint job. The paint was old and checked and I think it was a somewhat old paint job the first time I saw the car in the late 70's I just didn't want to be the guy who had stripped the paint off _______________'s old car and catch crap from some of the local guys who know the car.

    What I can't see is letting a pretty nifty old custom rot into the ground in the name of "keeping it original" when the top is half rotted off, the seats are mostly rotted away and what is left of the paint is flaking off in the name of preserving the original work. That just doesn't fly with me.
     
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  8. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 1,762

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    This Edsel timecapsule is a perfect example that not every custom back then was pretty. It´s still cool as hell none the less. Maybe it´s the bitter-sweetness that I dig about it. But I know I´m square.hahahaha
     
  9. This is the struggle that I have with my '40 stake truck. While it has a very insignificant "history" to most, it does have a significant history to me, as it's been in my family, and part of my growing up since the mid '70's. Yeah, I adjusted it's stance and gave it some pinstripes and some twice pipes, but I am trying to walk the fine line between preservation and modification.
    ABJandtheStakeTruck.jpg
    The day I picked it up from my great-aunt Betty Jo
    11828594_10206488058467976_1968521504631272288_n.jpg
    The day that American National Insurance had it in the studio for a photo shoot for their marketing department materials.
     
  10. bowie
    Joined: Jul 27, 2011
    Posts: 1,482

    bowie
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  11. KKrod
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 795

    KKrod
    Member

    I am crazy about nice hot rod survivors and hot rod and custom history. In my opinion owning one and paying for one is another matter. Decisions are largely based on economics. How much are you willing to pay for that history. Both in dollars and in loss of functionality.
     
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  12. Jeff Norwell
    Joined: Aug 20, 2003
    Posts: 12,417

    Jeff Norwell
    MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    Not a Custom..but I saw this in Cleveland.. super interesting and an insight how some guys built back in the day... but.if you restored it. would you destroy it?... I sit on the fence on that...guess it depends how far you take it.
    The current owner was a very nice guy to speak with.

    Really neat car.

    17390570_10154602004702809_2596250906179244932_o.jpg 17426020_10158678332155713_554921935172331153_n.jpg
     
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  13. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 10,239

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member



    This car is a perfect example (to me) of a car that needs restoration. Missing paint, flat tires rust etc do not a hot rod make. with that said the resto needs to be done in such a fashion that it is not "modernized" in any way. I can see showing it in as found condition just so people can see it but restore it so people can also see how cool it was when it was new....awesome car by the way
     
  14. BINGO! I absolutely agree.
     
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  15. tb33anda3rd
    Joined: Oct 8, 2010
    Posts: 11,492

    tb33anda3rd
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. Connecticut HAMB'ers

    yes it needs a restoration. the problem would be fixing what has to be fixed. as mentioned the paint would have to be repaired, but where do you stop the repair. the top needs to be fixed but how do you do it so it blends with the rest of the unrestored car? would this be a candidate for some fake aging/patina to get the new paint and top to look like it belonged? maybe? but then it's fake and it isn't original and THAT whole argument starts........
    man that car is cool and i wished i owned it.......hmmmmm let's see, a half a gallon of hondurace maroon, towel city pie crusts, 3 carb kits, oil and filter, call the upholsterer, clean the fuel tank out, fresh battery...................hmmmmm
     
  16. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,506

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Bingo, I would restore it exactly as it was, and IIRC, this car was in Car Craft in the early sixties. And Yes, I LOVE it.
     
  17. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,506

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    This is thing that will get me, guys will go out and purposely buy survivor hot rods, all the while PLANNING to make them unrecognizable. Its like they want the "cred" of having a survivor but don't give a rats ass about preserving our history.
    Its not like there isn't any raw material out there without butchering a survivor into your own mis-guided, distorted version of a "traditional hot rod", Hell I have nine projects cars, and have found dozens more that were both affordable and pretty exciting, and I see some of them sit in the classifieds here literally for months at a time. Sometimes I really have to remind myself that enough is enough, and I probably wont even finish what I have before I die.
     
  18. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 6,275

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    And American Graffiti deuce coupes.
     
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  19. rgdavid
    Joined: Feb 3, 2014
    Posts: 129

    rgdavid
    Member

    Restore or not but have a thought that most owners wether dead or alive would be very happy that theie cars go on living in any form, perhaps even, they would of been happy that their cars were running about or even thrashed (as they were made for) and had better engines,axles, breaks, more power......the cry of the hotrodder
     
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  20. J.Ukrop
    Joined: Nov 10, 2008
    Posts: 819

    J.Ukrop
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    Funny that you mentioned this car because I was thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis close to including a shot of it as an asides at the end of this article. Great minds think alike? With any luck, you guys will be seeing more of this one in the not-so-distant future...
     
  21. Torchie
    Joined: Apr 17, 2011
    Posts: 888

    Torchie
    Member

    Love the Roadster as well and the fact that it was documented in a magazine would help to be able to take it back to the way that it used to be. A car like this deserves a full on restoration to what it was when built. It would still show how things were done way back when. Leaving it this way is akin to finding the Sam Barris Buick out in the field but not restoring it because that's the way you found it.
    JMHO
    Torchie
     
  22. j3harleys
    Joined: May 12, 2010
    Posts: 448

    j3harleys
    Member
    from colorado

    I think I parked next to you at Austin last year. I had that copper colored 54 Ford. Loved your car.
     
  23. hdman6465
    Joined: Jul 5, 2009
    Posts: 558

    hdman6465
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I think Moriarty has pretty much hit the nail on the head as far as restoration back to the way it was, but I feel if the car is to be used, safety standards need to be brought up to date. I don't mean disc brakes,etc.,but good welds, no copper brake lines, leaking fuel lines,and other items need to be brought up to date. Someone getting hurt is not worth being cool!
     
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  24. RainierHooker
    Joined: Dec 20, 2011
    Posts: 1,870

    RainierHooker
    Member
    from Tacoma, WA

    Here's a picture that sums up the debate...

    image.jpeg

    What you are looking at here is the firewall of my "survivor" drag car, after removing the copper hydraulic lines and the two 1952 Ford master cylinders. It's a no-shit racecar that was put together with equal parts stick-welder, drill, and hammer. 50+ years in a shed didn't do any favors on the corrosion front.

    So, what am I to do? I dunno what the "right" answer is, but I'm going to clean up any surface rust and repair the most egregious sheetmetal sins. Then, repaint to blend with the original black. Finally, I'll replace the master cylinders with new parts, and re-plumb the whole car with modern cunifer tubing.

    Will it be exactly all original? No.
    Will it be safe? Yes.
    Will it be perfect? Well, it'll probably be a notch or two better than it was in the "good ol' days"
     
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  25. El Jefe
    Joined: Dec 12, 2002
    Posts: 686

    El Jefe
    Alliance Member

    Some have to be left alone and some have to be brought back to their glory. The Tom Orren "Waco Kid" Roadster has been left alone. Has only had brake work and carburetor work since it was extracted almost 20 years ago.
    barn.jpg 1998 in the barn Waco Flatty.jpg 1998 seeing the light of day Bonneville 2006 012.jpg 2006 Bonneville
    14361448_10209817703706714_8346060873556654321_o.jpg
    2016 Colorado Hot Rod Hill Climb
     
  26. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,506

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Rainerhooker, can I see a pic of the pedals?
     
  27. RainierHooker
    Joined: Dec 20, 2011
    Posts: 1,870

    RainierHooker
    Member
    from Tacoma, WA

    image.jpeg

    Not a great pic, and I haven't cleaned it up under the dash yet, but here you go.

    Looks like they took the entire hanging pedal assembly from a 1952-54 Ford and tied it in between the firewall plate, where the master cylinders are mounted, and the column drop. A tab is welded onto the brake pedal arm for the pushrod to space out the cylinders.

    It's not very pretty, and the welds are definitely not for aesthetics, but it is fairly inventive and certainly very, very stout.
     
  28. El Jefe
    Joined: Dec 12, 2002
    Posts: 686

    El Jefe
    Alliance Member

    The 1941 Mercury customized by and owned by Vince Subias for almost 50 years was restored to its glory days as it sat back in 1950. Sometimes I think it just depends on the car itself and what it is asking for. Below is the Subias Merc back around 1951 or 52 VinceSubias41MercOldPhoto00TRJ1-vi.jpg 20170320_234216.jpg
    This is the same car in its transition before its restoration by Dave Conrad in St Louis in about the year 2000
    20170320_234244.jpg 20170320_234231.jpg
    And here it is now in its present state today pretty much spot on as it sat when finished almost 70 years ago as a quintessential early custom Merc Sign0004.JPG Black Beauty0001.JPG
     
  29. El Jefe
    Joined: Dec 12, 2002
    Posts: 686

    El Jefe
    Alliance Member

    Here a shot of the yin and the yang together. One restored survivor ( but restored exactly as built back in the day) and one survivor left completely alone.........you decide. I love em both !!! Orren & Subias0001.JPG
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
  30. birdog
    Joined: Nov 25, 2010
    Posts: 351

    birdog
    Member

    You guys all crack me up! So many people on here were building street rods ten years ago and have now switched over to traditional hot rods. Now I am not saying there is anything wrong with that but I still see a lot of the same mentality on here. A lot seem to think that just because in the forties the kid wanted to make it nice and have beautiful paint job that we need to fulfill their dreams. Sometimes it's ok just to have an old hot rod that pisses people off. Which is exactly what they did. I have heard comments that the reason that people don't restore them is because they don't have the skill. that cracks me up and totally untrue. I keep hearing that the car will fall apart of it isn't painted also untrue if they are taken care of they will last. And my guess is if you have a survivor you will take care of it. I would like to think 40 years from today I will be able to go to a car show and see a old hot rod that has survived from the days of the hot rod pioneers. I think it would be a great sight. Or I could see a million restored perfectly hotrods that look nothing like they actually did. I am not saying every single one should be restored or left alone but the soul of that car will tell its owner. And it's weather that owner has the balls to not listen to the rest of the world. There are more people against leaving them alone then there are restoring them I can garentee that. I hear it all the time. Hells messenger got a lot of crap on here and I went for a ride in it and it changed the way I feel about hotrods. There has always be show cars and jalopy's and always will be. I hope we don't try to turn every old survivor into a show car. Just the ones that are screaming to be restored Just my opinion.
     

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