Anyone in Florida know of a gas station that Doesn't use Ethanol? I'd pay the extra 20 cents/gallon to not have it ruin Another Holley blue pump. Put in the 3rd in the Model T 4 days ago. Opened the bad one up and all the seals were cracked and corroded. Only in the last year have I noticed the big 10% ethanol stickers everywhere. I'm afraid of what it will do with continued use to the seals in my flathead. The SBC not so much since it was rebuilt last year but the pumps have been eaten by it.
Back to your original question; I have been using StarTron additive. It was basically produced for boats because they are around high moisture and a lot of them have fiberglass or plastic gas tanks that condenses moisture. Here in the Boise area it is hard to find a station that is E10 free. Usually a trip across town. StarTron is suppose to reverse the negative actions of ethanol and pass the water in a fine mist thru the filer along with any gum that ethanol cleans out in the system. It is a fuel stabilizer like Stabil but will last a year or two in a stored state. Stabil is advertising a new additive that is also designed for E10 use but I have not tried it. E10 burns ok in my 05 GMC but got a 4-5 mpg loss. With my additive it stayed stable in a 1500 mile trip with no loss of fuel consumption. Rod & Custom had an article on building a rod to run on E10 with recommendations of fuel pumps and etc. (Dec. 2008 issue- New Fuel Meets Old School) I am building a 40 Ford pickup and using their tips in its construction just in case this will be the fuel for the future. I have been finding the StarTron in the boat section of Wal-Mart and it treats 125 Gallons. http://mystarbrite.com/startron/content/view/14/37/lang,en/[/URL]
We've had primarily 10% here in the WNY area for years. So far, so good. Don't sweat it too much. One thing folks need to know (and the gasoline companies don't advertize this) is that because ethanol has an inherently higher octane rating than unleaded gasoline they are able to use a base stock fuel with a lower octane rating while still maintaining acceptable pump octane ratings. They make more money, you still get a product with acceptable octane ratings, cleaner fuel systems, cleaner motors and a cleaner environment - rah, rah rah. Ethanol is hydrophillic meaning that it loves to absorb water. What happens, however, is that when the ethanol absorbs water (from the atmosphere, storage tanks, your tank, etc) the octane rating for the ethanol component of the fuel drops dramatically. That, in turn, drops the over-all pump octane rating of the fuel and that can cause issues. Also the presence of ethanol and other additives in the fuel causes older polyester resin fiberglass fuel tanks (especially when you combine elevated bilge temps and old age) to break down allowing large particles to head down stream. For these reasons and others Mercury Marine and other boat companies no longer honor ANY fuel related failures in thier warranty programs. Your less likely to have these problems in road fuel because of the higher use rates and the fact that the fuel tanks aren't sitting near or in the water.....but its something to be aware of regardless. -Bigchief.
I replaced the fuel pump in my '93 Chevrolet pickup because of ethanol mixed into the gas. The Kansas legislature decided that filling stations would no longer need to post the pumps when ethanol is added. My manual plainly states that ethanol should not be run in my pickup. Ethanol is subsidized by the government and has less energy than gasoline. More help from our friends. The new Stabel product is supposed to help. You will be running leaner with ethanol.
the e-10 ethenol will separate from the gasoline in you tank if your car sits for long periods. you should start the engine and warm it up every week or two. I shift the trans. and move back and forth each time I start when sitting for periods. My gas tank pulls fuel from the bottom of the tank and when started last weekend, it was running on alcolhol for about ten minutes, really burned my eyes and nose...I purchased a new chainsaw and the dealer advised me to drain the gas out of tank after each use when using e-10..
4-5 mpg loss? Bullshit. We have been running E10 out here for 20 years and that does not happen. Alcohol injection has been sought after by hot rodders over the decades, some of you are pussies to think 10% will ruin your life and or cars. If you live in the Northern climates and add a bottle of HEET when it gets frigid..........umm that is ALCOHOL dude! I have run E10,20,30 and E85 in my daily drivers and my hotrods. My late model actually runs BETTER the more alky I run.
Mohawk Gas here in Canada has had the ethanol in it for years. It does really nasty nasty stuff to thermoquad carbs - apparetly the bakelite or whatever the baseplate is made of disintegrates after a while. I crumpled two of them in my hands, came apart just like sand.
Late November when we went to the stuff we use in winter here (I don't know the percentage), I lost almost exactly 2mpg in my beater Ranger p/u - been consistent since then. Tried different stations, but all have the ethanol in winter around here... I'm sure some of the MPG loss is simply due to the weather turning cold, but some is due to the ethanol... Also seems down on power, but that's prolly just my imagination.
I have run Ethenol since 1984 and have not had one problem with any fuel related issues in my newer daily driven cars and probably 800,000 miles in those 25 years. 80's carbs and later fuel injection. In the freezing climate you don't need to use HEET because the Ethenol doesn't freeze. 4-5 miles less per gallon less on 10% Ethenol is exaggerated. 2 miles less per gallon is more accurate with 10% Ethenol. 3-4 max less per gallon with 85% Ethenol. Ethenol burns faster because it is higher octane. I have occasionally run it in my old vehicles with old carbs with no problems. Any problems might occure from old vehicles sitting for long periods of time and carb problems are common with any gas. Cob
Gee - US farmers get a tax break ( subsidy from you and me) to produce Ethenol so we don't use as much gasoline from our FU..... FREINDS in the middle east. More than happy to have my farmer neighbors employed. Cob
It takes 1.25 gallons of fuel oil or petroleum equivalent - mostly natural gas and coal - to make 1 gallon of ethanol and distribute it. We are feeding the terrorists even more for using ethanol. Taking into consideration the land use, and subsequent loss of vegetation mitigating CO2 re-absorption, ethanol makes more pollution than gasoline. It takes 1.7 times as much ethanol to make the same amount of energy in BTUs as gasoline - it's why alcohol carbs and injectors must be opened up to flow more fuel. It is also why it MUST take more ethanol to move a given amount of weight a given distance than gasoline - physics doesn't lie. It is typical that vehicles will lose from 5 to 30 percent fuel economy depending on the initial efficiency of the vehicle and often the most gas-efficient will lose the most mileage because of the loss of performance. My car gets at least 20 mpg on gasoline and drops to 16 with 10% ethanol. Ethanol evaporates much quicker than gasoline so carburetors require replacement of gaskets, fuel pumps, and other parts much more often because dry/wet cycles cause cracks and failures. So far while there are materials that slow the effects, there is no rubber/neoprene replacement that is not at least somewhat soluble in ethanol and therefore ethanol will eat pumps and flex lines and anything else. OEMs have gone to plastic tanks because one of the problems with ethanol is the corrosive results inside metal. This includes tanks, lines, pumps, and carb or injector parts. There are lots of carb specialists who spend almost all of their time re-calibrating to accomodate the negative affects of ethanol and reformulated gasoline. Corn-based ethanol use has significantly increased starvation as we have increasingly burned our food. The hatred of the others around the world at our arrogance in buring food for no good cause while they starve is fueling terrorism. The rise in commodities has cost farmers in terms of fuel, fertilzer, seed, food and more. The only people really making out are Cargill and ADM who not only control the costs of the feed stock and have bought up the failing and unprofitable ethanol plants, but are the only ones with enough bought politicians to continue the subsidies that are the only profits made from the process. If every arable acre of land in this country were planted in corn and converted to ethanol it would not cover 10% of our current motor fuel needs. That said, we are no longer free to choose what we want and so must settle for what our masters will allow us to have until they decide that our old iron is no longer socially acceptable and it is confiscated and scrapped. See you in the re-education camps, comrades!
DOOODE! sim-madanna!^^^ Never had a problem with the 10-15% blends in any of my cars, but it always seems to cause the o-rings and seals to swell on my bikes petcock, causing slow drip-by. I ended up with a generic brass valve with neoprene seals.
We've been runnning 10% here since the 80's, all vehicles since them have been designed to accept a small percentage of ethanol, your 93 is one of them. Now if you ran E85 I may think there was a chance that it went because of the ethanol, but at 10% I doubt it, I think someone is feeding you a line... Dude, why are you even here? Do a damn intro, talk about cars, leave your BS political statements at the door...
I never noticed any problems with 10 percent ethanol in any of my older or newer vehicles.I did notice some idle issues on my old Brit bikes when 10 percent first came out,but it was just a matter of some retuning. I do notice that gas nowdays doesn't evaporte as quickly if you spill it.Probably an emissions issue.Not a factor on modern fuel injected engines though.Probably the reason my old cycles needed some idle tweaks.
Its 10% here in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada now. I am not that big of a fan of it. On my rochester carbs I noticed that the accel pump does wear down a little (rubber parts) faster, due to the alcohol. I also been told that on colder days that the carb seems to run a little more leaner due to the alcohol.
Docman; where did you come from? You remind me of the doomday soothesayers of the 60's, big brother is watching you!
My take on the octane thing; Alcohol burns slower, thus the higher octane rating(resistance to detonation). E85 would be a God-send; were it available in my area I could make use of those pop-ups I've got hanging in the shed!!! When they get it figured out(maybe make it from pond scum, sorry if I offend anyone) it may be the way to go.
Lots of issues with deathanol, but less with newer cars. Carbureted vehicles will lose power (unless the carb is recalibrated for the lower BTU content of the deathanol). Fuel injected vehicles (except "flex fuel" vehicles) will lose fuel economy but possibly gain power. The fuel injection relies on the O2 sensor to determine the quantity of fuel to provide. Since deathanol carries more oxygen, the O2 sensor will send a "lean" message to the computer asking for more fuel. "Daily drivers" will have far FEWER problems than collector vehicles that are driven only occasionally. The racers love it, as more power IS possible (at the expense of mileage), if the engine is specifically modified (higher compression, timing, etc.) to maximize the properties of deathanol. Deathanol currently is the worst problem we face in restoring carburetors (even worse than the always changing government regulations). The following article may help: http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Ethanoluse.htm Jon.
I have been running it in my completely stock RB383 in my '66 Chrysler for the last year and a half, only issue I see is lower MPG, but who really cares much about that.
I'm voting for you Tman! I wish there were more E-85 stations around here, only 1 close by. I want to build a BBC to run on E-85 only!
A. referring to it as "deathanol" is silly. why? it doesn't sound cool either. B. sorry "flex fuel" vehicles lose economy as well, they are nothing more than a regular gasoline engine with a wider variance for timing and jetting allowed in the engine management system. They are not tuned or optimized for E85 in any way.
A. - check the byproduct of the burning of alcohol from a chemist, not a government agency. And at my age, I no longer worry about sounding "cool". B. - flex fuel vehicles will lose some economy, but less than non-flex fueled fuel injection vehicles, as the computer is "smarter" and will compensate for the variant O2 readings. Jon.
The facts are just that. I did research for one of the Senators and included this and much more. Ethanol is widely understood now to be a feel-good boondoggle with a lot of down-side, but you either want to know about it or not. Free country - you can do what you like and I won't even insult you. As to the "politics", this is commonly referred to as satire although probably infected with a bit of sarcasm in this case. It's a form of humor. You should try it. And maybe reach way back and see if you can dislodge that large stick that is apparently protruding from your butt. It's obviously causing you great pain.
Interesting article from Mopar Action that applies to this thread: http://www.moparts.org/moparts/picture/print/pages/Vraa.html
Finally. somebody gets it right. And he's even from MO! how about that! He's correct, in all matters. corn based Ethanol is not our answers to dino fuel. (sugar cane or suger beet, maybe. But the corner growers Assc. has to many lobbists to let sugar farmers "steal" the ethanol market from the "corn growers.) And no 10% ethanol has minimal effects, but there is effects. E85 is %85 ethanol. Big difference. If you fill up your car that's not tuned to run on (basically) alcohol. It will run very poorly. Due to the fact that your engine needs much more alcohol than gasoline to the chemical makeup. Also E85 will KILL gasoline carbs and/or fuel pumps due to the deteriorating properties of alcohol. So for you guys waiting for E85 to run in your carbed car. Hotrod or DD, get ready to start buying parts a few years down the road. E85 by definition will eat them. And Ozzie... you would think after 3 "Holley Blue" pumps, you'd buy a different pump. maybe consider one that is rated to run alocohol. then no more bitching about the alocohol you can't take out of your gas.
Ok, you're not trying to sound cool, but it does take away some intelligence from any point you make. With 10% Ethanol all newer cars (90 on is pretty safe) have more than enough compensation to deal with it. For the most part even with 85% Ethanol you're only going out about 20% on jetting and 10% on timing. Do yourself a favor.. go read Read This First! like you were pointed to at sign up, do an intro like was explained in there to.
Near as I can tell, the only problem I have ever had with ethanol is it gives me a terrible headache and a loud exhaust in the morning.
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