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EPA expected to OK more ethanol in gas

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 48fordcoe, Oct 13, 2010.

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  1. chaos10meter
    Joined: Feb 21, 2007
    Posts: 2,191

    chaos10meter
    Member
    from PA.

    I can tell you for a fact they introduced this shit ethanol gas in Maryland about 2 years ago. I drive 74 miles each way, every weekend to my boat on the Chesapeake Bay.
    #1 On Ethanol gas, 16 miles /gal. non ethanol gas = 19 miles / gal.
    #2 Our marina has 360 boat slips, first year ethanol was mandated our marine engine shop had 43 carburetors to rebuild and 3 boats that had to have fuel tanks replaced as the shit gas was eating thru the plastic they were made out of, old Hatteras boats were the worst offenders, due to the material the tanks were made out of. Fuel was actually weeping thru the sides of the tanks, some of these tanks are molded in and had to be completely cut out of the hulls many thousands of dollars.
    #3 they always said store your thanks full, I hold 400 gallons in my one boat. If you don't burn it out in a few weeks , you are in for big trouble.
    #4 Read an article in a boat mag. that 5 million gallons a day are wasted on the highway just due to the difference in MPG using ethanol, what fucking sense does that make ? Sorry forgot we're talking about the government.
    #5 Maryland right now is trying to get marina/ boats exempted from all Federal ethanol requirements.

    The E-10 is pure fucking garbage what will the E15 be ?

    But then again I'm not a corn grower.
     
  2. Von Rigg Fink
    Joined: Jun 11, 2007
    Posts: 13,426

    Von Rigg Fink
    Member
    from Garage


    i cant wait to see the fur fly when two (3 letter gov. teams start fightin':D)
    FAA and EPA..

    and this Ethinol shit game was played on us 30 years ago..they just keep replaying their past mistakes
     
  3. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,594

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    Don't confuse the governments agenda with big business' agenda, oh wait it's the same... and that's on both sides of the aisle. :eek:
     
  4. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,088

    carbking
    Member

    I've lived in Missouri for more than 60 years. I have never seen either a volcano or a tsunami. Obviously, these both are myths! :p

    Jon.
     
  5. Judd
    Joined: Feb 26, 2003
    Posts: 1,894

    Judd
    Member

    This mean I can order the 12.5 to 1 short block for my alluminium head big cam 351 and still run pump gas?



     
  6. Van Dutch
    Joined: Nov 17, 2008
    Posts: 247

    Van Dutch
    Member

    I was going to post this, don't put ethanol gas in a boat made before 2007, it will interact with the fiberglass and gum everything up.
     
  7. slickschoppers
    Joined: Mar 15, 2007
    Posts: 160

    slickschoppers
    Member
    from Iowa

    so most people here know that the corn comes into the plant, it is run through a hammermill. this turns the corn into a flower. it is then put into a slurry tank with hot water making pretty much a cream of wheat (corn).

    it is then run to a fermentation tank where yeast is added. the yeast then spends the next 48 hours eating the sugars out of the corn and making ethanol.

    the ferm is then put to a beerwell. the beerwell further ferments the corn.

    it is then sent to distilation which seperates the water sending it back into the beginning of process, the ethanol which is now at about 90 proof goes to side strippers and moleclular sieves. this removes the remaining heat and water which is again sent back to process.

    the "wet" feed which now looks like dried up cream of wheat goes to the energy centers where it is ran through centrifuges.

    the centrifuges take spin out the mixure to remove even more water. which again is sent back to the process.

    the now cream of wheat looking substance is now DDG (dried distillers grain) it is corn without all of the sugars in it. very high in protein and a great approved animal feed. the DDG is sold to farmers at a MUCH lower cost than corn to feed to there livestock.

    some farmers also buy the corn syrup that is seperated to add a "little" sugar back into it. this is almost given away.

    so..... the farmers drop off corn that they are paid a premium for. as much as 5 cents a bushel more than what your typical elevator pays.

    THEN... the farmer picks up DDG which is a nutrient equivelent of corn at a MUCH reduced rate and feeds it back to the cattle.

    the problem with "what alot of people know" is that most of the farmers that sell corn to the ethanol plants in fact feed there cattle the very same corn that they dropped off.............

    SO????? are you saying there is a sugar shortage?

    remember. for those of us that have lived in Iowa for our lives we have seen piles of corn as tall as 5 story building ROT at the bottom sitting on the ground because there was not enough storage for it,

    we were not using 100% of the corn crop before ethanol, and we are STILL not using 100% of the crop.

    NOW,, alot of people like to believe the OTHER big buisnesses. OIL COMPANIES.

    there are also states that do not like ethanol at ALL.. they produce OIL, it is the oil companies best interest to get rid of ethanol. this is competition for them. Now of course, we all know that oil companies would NEVER lie to the public, mislead them, or purchase and hide technology that is available to get even better MPG.

    My 53 pontiac is a funny car... it has a inline straight 8. bone stock motor, trans, carburetor complete drive train is 100% stock.

    it gets 18mpg on regular gas and 17mpg on ethanol....... sometimes you can hardly tell the difference.

    My NEW cars the difference is much more noticable.

    SO,, why it is that a 1953 car doesn't seem to care, but a 2006 does?

    I'm not saying that ethanol is the greatest fuel ever invented, I'm just saying it is not the pure evil that oil companies have made it out to be.

    OH,, and YES,, boat tanks are a problem. Plastic should be fine, but the resin used in some of the older fiberglass tanks is VERY prone to damage from ethanol.... BUT,, I don't own a boat, and don't use one for day to day transportation. most americans don't own a boat,,, and only a VERY FEW use them for day to day transportation.......
     
  8. Tman
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 34,454

    Tman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Damnit Slick, there you go again with facts! Quit it! ;)
     
  9. Buddha Doll
    Joined: Oct 14, 2010
    Posts: 90

    Buddha Doll
    Member

    A zero emmissions ethanol plant is a myth. Why did the EPA have to raise the VOC emmissions a few years ago from 100 tons to 250 tons / year. I checked into the ethanol industry a couple of years ago when they wanted to build 3 plants within 5 miles of my house. They are not nearly as "green" as the corn growers/ethanol producers associations spin it to be.
     
  10. Jonny69
    Joined: Jul 24, 2007
    Posts: 275

    Jonny69
    Member
    from England

    As an environmentalist I'm torn on biofuels. On one hand they have the potential to be carbon neutral but the reality is they are badly managed and result in social and economic issues worldwide. They will also only be carbon neutral if they use renewable energy for extraction or distillation, which they currently don't, and are transported at each stage of the life cycle using vehicles powered by oil. So apart from lightly relieving the demand on the oil industry it is largely pointless.
     
  11. lostforawhile
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,160

    lostforawhile
    Member

    You'll probably be able to pick boats really cheap in the next few years, too bad they won't run. To anyone who says the crap doesn't eat rubber, i've put six carb diaphrams in my lawnmower this summer, SIX!! all eaten to a dam goo. I guess I better call up Jessee Ventura and tell him aliens are destroying my carb parts, couldn't possibly be the gas. On my off topic car i had to stop driving it two years ago, due to the crap destroying all the rubber diaphrams in it. I'm still modifing it to run on different carbs, and i've got to find needles and seats not eaten by the shit. I pulled the in tank fuel pump out, my mistake for leaving gas in the tank, the rubber hose from pump to the top of the bracket is nealy gone, this is a two year old pump , the last one lasted 20 years
     
  12. Buddha Doll
    Joined: Oct 14, 2010
    Posts: 90

    Buddha Doll
    Member

    I have replaced all 6 of my small engined (weed eater, blower, hedge trimmer etc) 2- stroke fuel lines since the mandatory blend. Parked an injected VW for a year and it turned the fuel line on the $300 pumps to goo, which of course burned the pumps up. The only ones that benefit from ethanol are the ones that are invested in the plant, or work for them. If it wasn't so heavily subsidized, the only ethano; plants we would see would be the ones making liquor.
     
  13. Tech @ BG
    Joined: Nov 18, 2005
    Posts: 319

    Tech @ BG
    Member

    As mentioned worse fuel mileage and boiling point issues are becomming more and more common with this fuel.

    We have also seen some other issues from it already that showed up first in boats but now old cars as well.

    With an older car with an original tank there can be years of deposits lightly covering the inside of the tank. The ethanol content gas acts as a detergent and over time "cleans" the inside of the tank sending all this debris forward. Even with the best of filters it is still reaching the carburetor internals and in many cases looks/feels like a syrup and is causing needle and seat issues.

    The other issue as mentioned is moisture and when many of these cars sit up the mositure content of the fuel goes up but we are also seing the same syrupy mess where it is sticking squirter needles as well as needle and seats.

    Depending on the materials used in different parts there can be some deterioration of these parts while with some it is still too early to tell.

    We are currently doing some testing with seals and components and different fuel mixes just to see what the effects can be over time and whether product material changes are needed.
     
  14. budd
    Joined: Oct 31, 2006
    Posts: 3,478

    budd
    Member

  15. Tman
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 34,454

    Tman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That is a very good read. Thanks.
     
  16. RDR
    Joined: May 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,355

    RDR
    Member

    used to get 20MPG now get 17.... Pay more per gallon now....sits in tank and dies after a month or so...WHAT'S NOT TO LOVE ABOUT IT ????!!
     
  17. Francisco Plumbero
    Joined: May 6, 2010
    Posts: 2,531

    Francisco Plumbero
    Member
    from il.

    Urgent! FDA to allow more gas in your ethanol! Stock up on high quality spirits now to avoid gassy ethanol!
     
  18. Isn't this Ethanol really just a stop gap until other alternative fuels are sorted or discovered? It seems to me I read of two major problems with ethanol as a sole fuel source.
    1) We could never grow enough corn to sustain our country's fuel needs if E85 or higher were ever mandated for the entire country. Yes Brazil has made it work, but take a look at Brazil from a geological form and you will see a completely different picture than the US.
    2) There is a "Shelf Life" problem with ethanol that makes it impractical at minimum and possibly impossible to ship and store it to areas that are too far away from the refining source.
     
  19. Francisco Plumbero
    Joined: May 6, 2010
    Posts: 2,531

    Francisco Plumbero
    Member
    from il.

    If I recall correctly, maybe but not sure, has not Ryan either closed or deleted the last 862 threads about this topic? Will this be the magic thread that some how avoids detection, will there be cookies mentioned in this thread, will my avatar dog skinny ever have any weight gain?
     
  20. Von Rigg Fink
    Joined: Jun 11, 2007
    Posts: 13,426

    Von Rigg Fink
    Member
    from Garage


    It will die..just like Skinny did:(
     
  21. mrpowderkeg
    Joined: Mar 11, 2009
    Posts: 178

    mrpowderkeg
    Member

    Ethanol is crap, I've had it eat fuel lines, holley needle and seats, and it gets crappy mileage in my daily driver. I mistakenly put "oxygenated" mid grade fuel in my nice car, our premium does not contain ethanol, and a few days later I had a rainbird sprinkler out the vent tube of the carb, the needle was mostly "gone"... I pumped that shit out of the tank and burned it up in the lawnmower.
     
  22. Francisco Plumbero
    Joined: May 6, 2010
    Posts: 2,531

    Francisco Plumbero
    Member
    from il.

    Skinny is not dead, he is just very very skinny. He spent a couple of years living in a skinny girls purse, she gave him to me because she was jealous of his skinny ness. She looked just like him.
     
  23. 52pig
    Joined: Jun 9, 2007
    Posts: 436

    52pig
    Member

    Ha ha ha... love the thread.

    BTUs, food source, can't keep my car running good, politics and greed.

    Rather be slaves to the middle east than have to tune and maintain your car.

    Done.
     
  24. budd
    Joined: Oct 31, 2006
    Posts: 3,478

    budd
    Member

  25. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,088

    carbking
    Member

    We are seeing the same issues and others. One particular issue we see in enthusiast vehicles that are not driven daily is the deterioration of any neopreme in the carburetors which is allowed to dry. In other words, daily drivers have a longer mean time to failure on neopreme parts than once a week drivers.

    We have been slowing converting accelerator pumps to leather for several years, as the leather is totally impervious to any mixture of ethanol.

    Unfortunately, since you and I are both in the carburetor business; our posts will be viewed by some as "self-serving".

    Jon.
     

  26. Wow, really??? So, how do you explain this - When E10 was introduced in Oklahoma a couple of years ago, there was a RASH of vehicle breakdowns and massive problems with lawn equipment, chainsaws, and the like??? Small engine shops will NOT do warranty work on equipment that has run E10, period. I ran E10 by accident on my ZTR mower and it ran like shit. Drained the fuel, put real gas in it and it ran fantastic. My wife's '06 car runs OK on it, but the mileage with real gas is 24 hwy/18 city, with corn-squeezins, it's 18 hwy/12 city. THAT is real-world, first-hand experience. Never again!

    Mileage in cars and trucks DOES get worse with ethanol, because of the fact it IS part alcohol!!! The cheaper price of corn-squeezins does not offset the worse mileage and performance. This is FACT, not rumor, conjecture, or anecdotal evidence.

    Figuring you are from Iowa, I'm williing to bet you have a vested interest in keeping "corn-squuezins" going. If YOU want to run E10, E15, or E85, run it, by all means! Don't force it down the throats of the rest of the country! My Senator, Dr Tom Coburn, is doing his damndest to keep the EPA from doing exactly that!
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2010
  27. djust
    Joined: May 31, 2006
    Posts: 1,230

    djust
    Member
    from Oklahoma

    Figuring you are from Iowa, I'm williing to bet you have a vested interest in keeping "corn-squuezins" going. If YOU want to run E10, E15, or E85, run it, by all means! Don't force it down the throats of the rest of the country! My Senator, Dr Tom Coburn, is doing his damndest to keep the EPA from doing exactly that![/QUOTE]

    Amen Brother !!
     
  28. De-evolution, Self execution, no solution




    I'm a potato, I'm so hip!
     
  29. lostforawhile
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,160

    lostforawhile
    Member

    it's a new fuel that was developed it's a direct replacement for the old 100 LL, goes straight into the tank. the tree huggers were up in arms about the tiny amount of leaded gas being used in piston airplanes, a pilot started development of this to help prevent the planes from being grounded due to lack of fuel. it's not anything that has been used before, it's closer to gasoline like it used to be then anything in years. I have the idea that since it can be made from anything plant, they ought to use kudzu, down here they spend hundreds of millions to get rid of it, since they have to hack it down anyway, turn it into fuel. you can't kill the stuff and it will grow on anything, faster then any plant i've ever seen.
     
  30. Tech @ BG
    Joined: Nov 18, 2005
    Posts: 319

    Tech @ BG
    Member

    When I first moved to Georgia in the mid 70's I can remember everyone was calling kudzu " foot-a-night" because they said it would grow a foot a night. :) that stuff does try to take over everything it can.
     
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