Technical Engine break un question

Would it be advisable to use a can of GM EOS with the Driven BR30 break in motor oil for an engine break in? I have a Pontiac 326 engine with a hydraulic flat tappet cam. I have applied the red line assembly Lube to all of the lifters and cam lobes and moving parts. I'm using the Joe Gibbs Driven, BR30 break in motor oil but I'm wondering if I should also use the GM EOS oil with the break in process.

I will be doing a full prelube of the engine before startup and then of course the 20 to 30 minute continuous varying of RPMs between 1500 and 2500 RPMs.

Thank you

 

Just use the Gibbs - no other additives needed.

 

Have had zero luck with the red soupy stuff o flat tappet cams , Isky rev lube moly paste is all we've had luck with + the break- in oil !

 

i have my cams polished. no need for breaking them in(with a blower no less). i use amsoil and no problems.

 

Agree, the dark grey paste is what I would recommend. Plus the break-in special oil. No need for the EOS.

Sent from my SM-A102U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

OK, this oughta start a shit storm....
There's so many threads, Q & A, discussions, arguments and just plain babble about fresh engine start up, but think back 20 or 30 years: NOBODY (but racers) went through all this crap to start a freshly built engine. Put it together, add oil, (maybe) prime the lube system by cranking it with the coil wire disconnected, connect it back up and go for it. How many engines were broken in by starting, varying rpm's, put it through a few heat cycle so you can retorque things, then drive to to work and life goes on!
What did they do in 1949 when they rebuilt a '40 flathead? In '61 when the 265 got rebuilt? What did the factories do? Henry sure as hell didn't go through all of this on every flathead they pushed down the line.
Someone tell me why we approach this so differently than the 'traditional' way.

 

I just changed a flat tappet camshaft, new lifters etc, just used Penrite (Aussie brand) running in oil, high zinc minimal detergents, ran for 30 min, then changed oil / filter, added more running in oil - about to change after approx 500 miles. No issues so far. Glen

 

No storm necessary , this isn't " back then" . Oil formulation has changed , quality of components has changed . If you refuse to change your procedure to confirm to the present situation , youre destined to fail .

 

If you don't use the right oil and do it right, you WILL be putting a new cam and lifters in at least. Probably more like a complete engine disassembly, clean all of the metal out, replace more parts, all of the bearings,

and maybe even ruin some more engine parts,

 

Your 326 likely has pretty soft valve springs and not much cam lift, so the break-in oil will be plenty all by itself. The redline lube works good, as long as you don't wait days to start the motor after assembly. It will run off the lobes and end up in the oil pan. Paste type lube stays for at least a few revolutions before being wiped off.
Most important thing about break-in is to have the engine ready,
Timing needs to be close if not right on,
Carburetor needs to be a known running unit with fresh gas in it,
Cooling system needs to be full and capable of cooling the engine,
Oil needs to be primed, and lifters all full and adjusted.
Battery needs to be charged with high quality cables.

Have a garden hose handy to cool the radiator if the engine starts getting hot.
Have a fire extinguisher handy just incase,
and, as soon as it fires off, get the rpm up and make adjustments on the fly to keep it running.

DON'T idle engine till after break-in.

Keep it running at 1500 rpm for 15 to 20 minutes.

Camshaft makers and sellers really like the old school method of throw it in and run it, they get to sell more cams that way!

 

For the comment about "how they did it in the fifties", I think the main difference is spring pressure increases to make quicker opening and higher lift profiles work is what makes the difference today. There also seems to be some concern about the quality of the cams today.

 

Can you provide a little more info about doing that? I'm building a crankshaft polisher and it would also be easy to polish camshafts with it. In fact I had considered using it to establish cam bearing clearances more accurately, but had not considered the lobes.

 

Is the purpose of the lube for the flat tappet cam only to provide lubrication just until the lube oil hits the camshaft?

 

Correct, that's why it's important as mentioned above to get the rpm up, the windage of the crank is what lubes the cam
Zinc is the key to break in

 

Its my understanding that some of the moly imbeds itself into the metal surfaces during break- in ...

 

i was a r&d/exp machinist at pratt whitney jet engine. i was lucky, i got to get involved in a lot of off the wall materials. my dept wrote the machining specs for pratt. being from that background everything i do is basically a r&d project for me. i made a lot of my stuff for the dragster and now the doing a twin engine altered. the altered is killing me moneywise. i kept changing things.

www.negearpolishing.com is who does my polishing. metal finishing is important. oil helps in running, but doesn't cover inefficient finishes. i want to try some other finishes too.
since i run buicks, the oil system is not the friendliest to deal with. that being said, rpm is not conservative by the driver either. i run regular amsoil and i change it every other year. drives the amsoil rep crazy. lol
a lot of people say i shouldn't do what do. 15 yrs running the same block and haven't blown it up. blew a h/g once. seen 10k rpm just b4 i hit the wall. had to change rod bearings.
if you build it right, it should last with minor upkeep.
and my wife thinks i'm crazy. fooled her.

 

forgot one little thing about the dragster engine. the rail is a 1968. therefore they are narrow. running a buick there is no room for the oil filter. because of this, i made a cap which means i do not run an oil filter on the engine and only 4 qts. now you think i'm really crazy.....

 

And we mostly agree on something! Mark the calendar!

Yeah, modern higher performance cams and higher spring rate pressures, along with questionable camshaft/lifter quality, equals a need to pay more attention than in the "olden days".

If you're building a low performance engine with mostly stock valve train, I think the need for all the special practices is reduced. I think sometimes people over due things, but, with the cost involved in building an engine who can blame them.

 

Wow, I thought there were many good points expressed, but then it turns out "There is one Truth"!

F

 

like everything else, the formulation of EOs & STP were reportedly changed to eliminate zinc back about when SM oil came out.

 

If you were to actually read the instructions given with new cams,
They want you to use “light” springs for break in. Conveniently they left out the spec on spring pressure of what’s considered “light”.

I’ve done at least a hundred cam install and break in procedures. Personally I’ve had only one go flat on break in. Looking back- Coincidentally that one also didn’t want to start.
Quite a few of that 100 or so we’re because the owner had their new cam install go flat.

 

This is partly true, zinc levels were reduced in motor oils, it never was very high in STP, but even though the amount has been reduced in modern motor oils it's still as high or higher than it was back when a flathead Ford was made, or a Y-block, or the other OHV V8's used in traditional hot rods. And they include modern non-zinc anti-wear agents not available back in the day.

 

With factory profile cams & factory tension valve springs incorporating factory spec materials / components.

 

Yes, some of the engine designs......even Chevys can have some things done which will aid oil flow. Lately I have been looking more closely at simple things that can be done and how oil actually flows thru the engine blocks. Often there are bottleneck areas that can reduce flow in other parts of an engine. On an extra Cad engine block, I have been experimenting as far as enlarging some passages and smoothing and blending some sharp turns. A supplier sells a specialty cam bearing set that has a groove completely around the outside of the bearing which should aid flow and remove a bottleneck. I have been thinking about making a groove in the block inside the cam journal. It would only go about 270 degrees around the journal and the standard bearings would be used with a hole drilled at the 270 loc. That way some oil would enter the cam bearing/journal interface at a point just ahead of where the pressure from the valvesprings is pushing. Might help, but shouldn't hurt. I'm also building a crankshaft polisher. I figure I can check each individual installed cam bearings actual size. Then mic the cam journals and if needed, polish them to size. I can also polish just to have the best finish. Just some of those small details to help the engine.
I'm familliar with the vibratory tumbling process thats similar to what negear uses. For my needs, I don't think thats doable, so I'm looking at stuff I can do at home. Here are some pics of a Cad crankjournal. I radiused the oil passages. I also used my unfinished crank polisher to clean a journal. The difference took about 15 seconds of polishing with a 1000 grit belt. Size didn't change measurably yet the finish changed quite a bit. I'm looking to use this crank without turning it undersize. When I get everything done I'm going to post it in the Homebuilt Tools thread, as I think a lot of guys would benefit from not having to go .010 on some of these rare cranks, or just polishing a rare crank that is already .010 under.

 

I have been using Crower Camsaver lifters, they have a small groove cut down the side to supply oil to the cam lobe face and lifter. To me, this is the quickest and best option to supply oil to where its needed. Any lifter could be cut, but if buying lifters anyway, why get them already done. Rhoads offers the oil groove also.

 

i get lazy. so i send my parts out that need work. i've run the 455's and v6's. never felt comfortable about their oiling. 350 is pretty much the same, but its a better engine for the dragster. building the altered with twin v6's will be my big headache about oiling. i have 2 used cams that are going to be polished. one thing we use on the buicks is the valve lifters have an edm hole in the bottom to aid in cam life. it helps. some of the guys do all sorts of weird oiling in their engines. i wonder how the 350 would react running nitro being a thin wall block.....

 

Interesting topic--
I haven't looked into re: break in oil here, but this guy always has good stuff on his site

https://bobistheoilguy.com/

 

Last year I built my very first roller cammed engine! Always wanted to try one, but just couldn't bring myself to spend the money for roller cam, lifters, and roller rockers. But I found a rebuilt SBC 350 from 1990 that was a short block, and so cheap I couldn't pass it up. Already had a cam and roller lifters, but seller couldn't give me cam specs, so I swapped in a Howards cam instead. Put a pair of completely rebuilt LT1 heads, with roller rockers, and started it last summer.
It was nice not doing the usual cam break in, but I still do my usual engine break in regardless, on any new engine. Varying the engine speeds as I drive it, and not just cruising along at one speed. Downshifting to decelerate on compression, and of course the 500 mile oil change, and filter dissection to check for metallic sparkles.
It's still pretty new with about 2500 miles, but I think I'm sold on roller engines.

 

When I put my new solid lifter flat tappet in my 340 they told me to start the engine, run it 10 minutes varying rpms, shut off let cool then do the same 2 more times. I also only had one of the 2 valve springs on, so far no problems.
This was totally different that what I was told in the past. This was from Hughes engines.

Tony

 

I like that Cadillac 472