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Technical Eliminating 51 Ford Push Button Start

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by fourspd2quad, Oct 16, 2021.

  1. fourspd2quad
    Joined: Jul 6, 2006
    Posts: 804

    fourspd2quad
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    Hey guys I need a little help here. I am a certified mental midget when it comes to electrical stuff. I am trying to eliminate my push button and just use the keyed ignition switch. I have a complete new factory style wiring throughout and am doing a 12v conversion. I have all the correct 12v conversion stuff such as solenoid, runtz gauge reducers, 12v bulbs, 12v keyed switch, 12v wiper motor, 12v (generator look-alike) alternator, battery, blower motor etc. I understand that the wire to the push button is a ground wire from the solenoid. What do I do with this wire when I eliminate the button? What else needs to be done to just use the keyed switch?
     
  2. Your new 12 volt solenoid will need a 12 volt signal from the key switch instead of the 6 volt solenoid that required a ground signal to crank the engine. So you don't need the ground signal wire anymore.
     
  3. fourspd2quad
    Joined: Jul 6, 2006
    Posts: 804

    fourspd2quad
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    Thank you so much for the reply. Does that mean I can just take the wire that is on the back of the push button switch and run it to the power side of the ignition switch?
     
  4. theboss20
    Joined: Dec 30, 2018
    Posts: 260

    theboss20

    No…that push button is a grounding switch…don’t use it…
     

  5. You'll need an ignition switch with a 'start' position, the original one won't work. Ford dropped the start button in '52 on cars, switching to a ACC/OFF/ON/START (with 'start' being spring-loaded) switch so some wiring revisions will be needed. What I don't know is if the later switch will fit (without mods) in place of the early one. The '52-60 switches are commonly available.
     
  6. fourspd2quad
    Joined: Jul 6, 2006
    Posts: 804

    fourspd2quad
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    Is it still a grounding wire if it is coming off the positive post on the 12v solenoid? Like I said I struggle with electrical shit.
     
  7. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 3,098

    goldmountain

    Someone gave me a starter button for '51 Ford and it isn't the older grounding type switch as on the older cars but a two wire switch. If this is the case, hook the wire that connects to the solenoid to the start position on your new ignition switch.
     
  8. theboss20
    Joined: Dec 30, 2018
    Posts: 260

    theboss20

    Yes…that’s how you can tell…one wire is a grounding switch…two wire is not. When you changed to car to negative ground it made the one wire switch a hazard.
     
  9. No, it's no longer a ground wire. I'm assuming they supplied a Ford-style 12V relay (solenoid), it should have four connections. This type has a brown or black bakelite main body. If it's a all-metal body, the connections may be different; a pic of it will be needed. The four connections are battery, starter and two smaller ones. The small ones should be marked 'S' and 'I' on the solenoid body. The 'S' terminal will connect to the start terminal on the ignition switch. The 'I' terminal will connect to the distributor side of your ignition ballast resistor if you're using one, otherwise it's unused.

    I'll note that the battery needs to be connected on the side of the solenoid closest to the 'S' terminal, and the coil ground for the solenoid is through it's mounting bracket, so make sure there's some metal-to-metal where it mounts to assure a good ground.
     
  10. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 30,027

    Mr48chev
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    If your I am assuming new ignition switch has the "start" on it you just need to run a wire from the proper post on the switch to the S post on the solenoid. The wire may be in your new wiring harness if it is an aftermarket harness.

    If your ign switch doesn't have a start position you have to change your to ground starter button to a two pole push button and wire a hot wire to it and a wire to the S post on the solenoid. You can't make a 51 switch do something it wasn't designed to do.
     
  11. Best to give us a pic of your new ignition switch from the back so we can see what you have.
    Something like this
    ign switch.jpg
     
  12. V8 Bob
    Joined: Feb 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,771

    V8 Bob
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    JFYI, Ford dropped the starter button in '51 on cars.
     
  13. fourspd2quad
    Joined: Jul 6, 2006
    Posts: 804

    fourspd2quad
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    I should have said mine is a wagon which they didn't change.
     
  14. fourspd2quad
    Joined: Jul 6, 2006
    Posts: 804

    fourspd2quad
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    Mine is a new original style switch. Here is a pic.
    0L-11572-A@1.jpg
     
  15. Correct on both accounts. Standard passenger cars did not have the push button, only the Woody wagons and they used the 49-50 style dash also, not the 51 only dash. Your dash Ign. switch hole will need some alteations to accept the 51 turn to start switch and you can't use that 51 switch in your dash. Personally I would get a 57-58 turn to start Ign switch and make it fit and work. The 51 turn to start switch is a One Year only unit by design. Hard to find and they have there own issues being first of it's kind. I don't know what is different in the 52-55 unit but know they are not the same as 51. Once you change over to 57-58 just run one wire from the start term on the switch to the S term on solenoid.
     
    The37Kid likes this.
  16. If it has a spring-loaded 'start' position it'll work. If it doesn't, you'll need a newer type switch. Even if it does have that, I'd still change it out for one with an 'accessory' position. The accessory position allows troubleshooting and/or listening to the radio, running the wipers without energizing the ignition circuit. Putting power to the ignition without running the motor can damage it.
     
    Pist-n-Broke likes this.
  17. Mac's lists the '52 though '60 switch as all being the same.
     
    Pist-n-Broke likes this.
  18. May well cross over, I've never worked with one. 57 is the first year of 12 Volt in Ford.
     
  19. I'll note that I have a '50 Merc dash and the hole for the switch looks the same as the later ones but I haven't actually checked fit. I don't know how the older switches install, the later '50s ones use a spring and a cam-lock bezel, you may need to get those parts also. They are all reproduced.

    '56 is the first year....
     
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  20. fourspd2quad
    Joined: Jul 6, 2006
    Posts: 804

    fourspd2quad
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    This is my 12v starter solenoid.
    Thanks everyone for the help.
    7-1013-3__97682.1608117235 (1).jpg
     
  21. fourspd2quad
    Joined: Jul 6, 2006
    Posts: 804

    fourspd2quad
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    Maybe to get up and running I will get a universal 4 post switch at the local autozone. Then worry about aesthetics later. Lots of stuff I've ordered lately has delayed shipping.

    12062981_dcd_85936z_pri_larg.jpg
     
  22. This getting up in years is a tough sentence. I know it's 56 not 57. Not sure if that was a typo or a brain Fart. What ever it was it seems to be happening more often than I like. Thanks for catching that Steve. Things are a changing in the old Library. My card file seems to be disarranged.:(
     
    mrspeedyt likes this.
  23. OK, that's an aftermarket style solenoid, and as shown it's wired for a grounding-type pushbutton. This would also lead me to believe that the furnished ignition switch has no 'start' position, so you would need the pushbutton to make it all work. So if you want the pushbutton gone, a four-position ignition switch is needed.

    So the next question is what type of ignition system are you using? Points or electronic?

    If you're using points, you'll need a ballast resistor or point life will be poor and that solenoid will need the right connections to work. To be honest, I don't like this type relay for that duty as I don't think they're as heavy-duty as the Ford-style ones, but that's just me. If you use this one, remove the jumper shown, chassis ground one of the small terminals and connect the other one to the start terminal on the ignition switch. Run a wire from the distributor side of the ballast resistor to the terminal used to power the starter. If you decide on a Ford OEM-style solenoid, any decent parts house should have these, they're pretty much all the same from '56 into the mid-'70s. Just make sure it has both the 'S' and 'I' terminals, some later ones don't have the 'I' terminal. Pick up the ballast resistor while you're there, but that will probably have to be ordered.

    If running electronic ignition, you may or may not need the ballast resistor, you'll have to check with the manufacturer. Generally speaking, if it's a 'all under the cap' type you'll probably need the resistor, if it has an external box you won't. I know MSD boxes don't need one, you'll have to check for others.
     
  24. The ignition switch in the picture posted does not have a start position. The terminal marked "AM" is battery power from the ammeter. The terminal marked rad & ga is power out to accessories (radio and gauges etc.) The third terminal marked coil goes to the ballast resistor or coil depending on what the car needs. There is no position for start.

    And yes, the wagons used the push button in 51 and the sedans went to a key start switch. :)
     
  25. That's a universal solenoid that has been wired to work with grounding starter button.

    Take the red jumper wire off, reinstall one end on the other small terminal and ground the other end, then run the start wire from the parts store ign switch you posted to the small terminal where the jumper wire was originally connected. Should be able to figure out how to use the wire that is already in your new harness.
     
  26. fourspd2quad
    Joined: Jul 6, 2006
    Posts: 804

    fourspd2quad
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    I am running a sbc distributor converted for the flathead by CharlieNY on Fordbarn along with points and ballast resistor.
     
  27. fourspd2quad
    Joined: Jul 6, 2006
    Posts: 804

    fourspd2quad
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    I found this diagram on another site. To me it appears like the pic at the center bottom is what is being described to me by you guys. If correct this will tie things up nicely for this thread.
    M F1 Ignition Switch Wiring.jpg
     
  28. The solenoid in these diagrams is not the same as the one in the picture you posted as being your solenoid.

    The universal ignition switch (in post 21) that you were going to buy more than likely does not "cut-out" the coil feed when cranking; so there is no need for the other type solenoid or bypass wiring in the diagram.
     
  29. All three of those diagrams have one error; the wire from the 'I' terminal should connect on the coil side of the ballast resistor, not the power side as shown. You're trying to apply the full 12V to the coil when starting for a stronger spark, then once started it reverts to feeding through the ballast resistor at reduced voltage to increase point life.

    What type of ignition switch it is (aftermarket or OEM) doesn't matter as long as it has a 'start' position.

    Rich B is correct, the solenoid you showed is not the same type as in the diagram. Connect as noted in post 23.
     
    Pist-n-Broke likes this.

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