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Electrolize de-rusting thread

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Samster, May 23, 2013.

  1. Samster
    Joined: Sep 29, 2010
    Posts: 185

    Samster
    Member
    from Belgium

    Hi everybody,

    In the process of my Dodge Kc rebuilding, I got introduced to the method of de-rusting pieces with electricity, water and soda.

    After a few weeks of testing and trying different setups, I found it working very well.

    here's two brackets:
    [​IMG]

    I use 1 big spoon of soda pro gallon of water, about 3A of current, with a 12v charger (no battery)

    slightly brush off the part after about 30-40h in the bath. I immediately put on the wonderfull ACF-50 rustblock-oil, to keep it safe from fresh rust.

    some more:
    [​IMG]

    having practically no mechanical work on the surface, it works great for letters and logos

    [​IMG]
    (I didn't take these pumps apart to put em in the bath)

    For the moment I'm figuring out a way to get a positive bar into both waterjackets of my flathead (would be nice I think, to get the grit out before I start on the rebuild of it)

    Has anybody upon here has any experience with this? (it's a '47 crab-one)
    I'll put on some more pictures of the actual process as pieces come by (I've got quite a bunch of pieces to go) , but it would be great to have some external tips and tricks on this.

    Here in Belgium I seem to be shouting in the desert with this ..

    cheers, chocolates and beer

    Samster
     
  2. I use it all the time. Works great. Best results for me were with about 14 volts. (Charger on a battery) I have a used alky fuel plastic drum which will hold a v8 block (even a 440 mopar) I use Arm and Hammer washing soda. Built a trailer last week for my dragster. Got some old wheels from the wreckers. I put them each in for an hour and was able to brush off and wipe then brush paint. If I had left them for a day the paint would have come too. BTW. I have not had to change my mix. It is still the original I put in several years ago. I just skimm the water with a rag and also remove the iron bar and wipe it clean between treatments. Tis a fascinating way to clean parts and a lot more eco friendly then the hot tank. And it will do alumium.
    Don
    PS was in your fair land last year. Spent a nice afternoon at the big car museum in Brussels
     
  3. Inside water jacket -
    Electrolysis works by line of sight.
    The electrode cant touch the part.
    Sheathing the electrodes in perforated plastic ( more holes the better ) works for that application quite well. PVC with holes, plastic netting or similar.
     
  4. Samster
    Joined: Sep 29, 2010
    Posts: 185

    Samster
    Member
    from Belgium

    that's good to hear!

    So you do have a battery connected to it? I'll give that a try too, in an hour time, there is but little effect to see here.

    Next plan is to dig a sort of bed in the garden, where I can put my chassis in. That would save me a lot of trouble and cash.

    now for the testing I just have some buckets of magic soup standing around :)

    [​IMG]
     

  5. 26 roadster
    Joined: Apr 21, 2008
    Posts: 2,015

    26 roadster
    Member

    have you tried using your welder as a power source? I have had success with it.
     
  6. Delray
    Joined: Jul 14, 2009
    Posts: 46

    Delray
    Member

    Have you had any bad effects to the battery charger?

    Do you want the anodes as close to the part as possible or should they be seperated as far as possible?
     
  7. Samster
    Joined: Sep 29, 2010
    Posts: 185

    Samster
    Member
    from Belgium

    ah? that's an interesting thought.. haven't tried it no. What type of welder?

    I had some ideas to combine the tank with a resonance cleaner, to get the particles off the body more quickly..
     
  8. Are you thinking on going true ultrasonic or vibratory like a sander clamped to the tank?
     
  9. Samster
    Joined: Sep 29, 2010
    Posts: 185

    Samster
    Member
    from Belgium

    a cheap charger wouldn't start charging. the one I use now is a threestage 20A portable one. (No bad effects to be seen yet)

    As to the distance, the closer they are, the less resistive the 'soup' and the more current will flow.

    do see to it that the built up material on the positive side doesn't touch our part. It will lead the charger to go short, and the process will come to a halt.

    I tried a setup with a metal grate on the bottom of the tank (big surface seems to be good) , a plastic fat grate as separator, and the pieces ontop that worked good.

    A metal rod inside a to be derusted tube also worked good, thoug a good tip is to incline the tube, so the bubbles can evacuate more quickly.


    most of these tricks I learned when I was building H² gasgenerators to power up twostrokes, the electrolysis-idea is more or less the same
     
  10. Samster
    Joined: Sep 29, 2010
    Posts: 185

    Samster
    Member
    from Belgium

    the ultrasonic type yes, pardon my speech in this,
    I am afterall, still a Belgian hahhahh
     
  11. I have used this method too, with good results. I'm not sure about the welder as a power supply, the last time I looked I thought they were A.C.
    I have used an anode inside things by slipping a couple of short lengths of garden hose over some 1\2" rebar' and putting the whole thing inside' making sure it doesn't touch the workpiece. The only trouble I get is on the electrical connections to the anodes-they sometimnes corrode away and stop the process.
    That gas you see bubbling off in the solution is hydrogen- so keep away with the smokes!
    Also be careful if you are dipping sheetmetal parts- if you leave them in too long you won't have anything left!
    I've also thought about using a steel drum cut in half as your container and anode- it should work in theory.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2013
  12. Samster
    Joined: Sep 29, 2010
    Posts: 185

    Samster
    Member
    from Belgium

    good tip about the pieces of gardenhose!

    uptil now the aim was to make as much hydrogen as possible, so I'm aware of the effects

    check this video ;)
    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/nvoDHtK2rk0?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    (on two wheels, they call me Yamasam)
     
  13. You should post a thread on that.
    The big tank units need quite a few ultrasound generating units to be effective & they are not cheap.

    Adding some simple air agitation to the bath will help quite a bit.
    In your buckets, you could add a ring of small diameter hose with about 10-20 small holes and put 2 psi air pressure to agitate the debris off the parts. A parts jacuzzi if you will.
     
  14. Samster
    Joined: Sep 29, 2010
    Posts: 185

    Samster
    Member
    from Belgium

    so maybe some speakers would also help..

    I'll do a test with my bassamplifier next to it. (great way to combine hobbys hahhah)
     
  15. 26 roadster
    Joined: Apr 21, 2008
    Posts: 2,015

    26 roadster
    Member

    I used the old red Lincoln buzz box, I used 1/2 re-bar cage in a large plastic drum.
     
  16. you guys need to read big m's 59 plymouth convertible thread, he did an entire car body and frame! real interesting thread.
     
  17. Samster
    Joined: Sep 29, 2010
    Posts: 185

    Samster
    Member
    from Belgium

    ahah, that sounds good, I'll look into it tonight when I've stopped working!

    thanks for the hint!
     
  18. Samster
    Joined: Sep 29, 2010
    Posts: 185

    Samster
    Member
    from Belgium

    found it, and I think the term 'holy smokes!!' might apply to this :)
     
  19. Crankhole
    Joined: Apr 7, 2005
    Posts: 2,623

    Crankhole
    Member

    You have rusty aluminum?
     
  20. Just a quick reminder and warning for those that don't already know. I would avoid using stainless steel anodes in this process (as tempting as it might be). From what I understand it can produce hexavalent chromium. Think Erin Brockovich. It's the same stuff.
     
  21. Samster
    Joined: Sep 29, 2010
    Posts: 185

    Samster
    Member
    from Belgium

    thanks, it is indeed tempting to do so,

    also dont add salt, then you get chloregaz!
     
  22. this sounds like a fun passtime, ill have to try it.. i'll put it down on the 'things to do' list with "cast aluminium car club plaques"
     
  23. indyjps
    Joined: Feb 21, 2007
    Posts: 4,103

    indyjps
    Member

    I started buying old battery chargers from auctions and yard sales, have 4 now, none cost over $7. They dont have the "smart electronics" in them that new chargers have, and if I damage one - Oh Well.
    for Aeration, could you use a fish tank air pump, this will add plenty of airflow. will not circulate the water though.
    PVC with holes drilled in it works to sleeve the parts as well.
     
  24. Dexter The Dog
    Joined: Jun 27, 2009
    Posts: 195

    Dexter The Dog
    Member

    I want to try this but it seems like I'm missing something and I don't want to burn down the garage since I won't be baby sitting this little Frankenstein meth lab contraption.
    I keep getting images of that Winnebago from Breaking Bad out in the desert spewing toxic smoke

    Does anyone have a schematic sketch of this?
    How long does it need to run?
     
  25. Google and YouTube have plenty of step by step setup directions, tips and tricks.
     
  26. Nah, it's easy and works well. Here's a little tech tip on it: http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/rust/electrolytic_derusting.htm. There's probably some stuff on youtube as well.

    How long? I think it depends on how much current you're running through it and how heavy the rust is.
     
  27. gas pumper
    Joined: Aug 13, 2007
    Posts: 2,955

    gas pumper
    Member

    I was not 100% sure this method works so I don't have before pictures.

    But I'm convinced now. I have a lathe chuck that was left outside to die. Crusty pitted. I took it mostly apart and now have it cooking away. I pulled it out today and it's not done yet. But the lighter rusted areas are clean and silver.

    This is amazing.

    I'm using a 10A little box charger. It has been running at 6 amps and 10.5 volts when I clean off the scrap piece and stir up the broth. It goes down to 3 amps when the soup needs stirring. Seems like every 12 hours are good for an inspection. I'm doing it outside in case something goes wrong. Already one of the hanger wires rotted off and the parts came together, but all that happened was the circuit breaker in the charger popped.
    I have copper hook up and hanger wires now.

    The best part is that only the rust is attacked by the electric process. The parts of the chuck that were not rusted are un affected and still bright and shinny. Unlike an acid bath where the whole part shrinks away. This only removes rust. WOW.
     
  28. Samster
    Joined: Sep 29, 2010
    Posts: 185

    Samster
    Member
    from Belgium

    Glad to hear this has some discovering value around the globe. It's strange that some are familiar with it and doing it for years, while others come falling out of the sky after years of buying expensive commercial crap.

    I'd love some chemist saying of what the residue consists, and whether it indeed is ok, to pour it under the flowers in the garden, without risk of divorce and some facial scratches?
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2013
  29. 46Ford
    Joined: Jul 7, 2006
    Posts: 80

    46Ford
    Member

    I have used this method several times. Steel and iron anodes work OK, but tend to degrade over time. They get a funky extreme rust covering that causes amperage to drop.

    As mentioned, stainless anodes will not degrade, but create nasty hazardous waste.

    I use carbon anodes now and they work great. The amperage flow stays the same for as long as I want to leave the parts in without the waste of stainless.
     
  30. Samster
    Joined: Sep 29, 2010
    Posts: 185

    Samster
    Member
    from Belgium

    I put in flathead oilfilterhousing yesterday, hung it upside down in the bath.
    Now the holes are clogged, so I get some sort of diving clock that builds up the gas.

    I drilled the hole to make a passage, but I guess it would have been a small hydrogen capsule by morning if I hadn't

    one should always be cautious
     

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