Register now to get rid of these ads!

Electrical issues... ALWAYS hot.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Jonnyhotrod, Aug 23, 2006.

  1. Jonnyhotrod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2003
    Posts: 430

    Jonnyhotrod
    Member

    This is sort of a continuation of post http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125980. I did what was suggested, points gapped, etc., and am still having issue with the wiring. PLEASE HELP. The heavy wire leading to the generator is hot all the time. When the battery is hooked up and the wire is attached, it motors, hence the smoking as it couldn't spin with the belt on. This happens even with the key off. Without this wire attached to the generator, I can start the car just fine and nothing else smoked or acts weird.

    I traced out all the wires leading from the generator and the key. I'm not really sure what's hooked up incorrectly, and was hoping one of you may notice the problem if I mapped it out for you. I am boggled by electricity and would really appreciate some insight.

    - One lead from the KEY leads to the small STARTER post. It is an aftermarket Chrysler starter w/ a built in relay.

    - The other side of the KEY has wires leading into the harness marked On, Acc and a jumper to the push BUTTON to start it.

    - The other side of the BUTTON goes into the harness and back to the FUSE panel up back.

    - The HOT wire in question is the heavy LEAD on the generator (Chrysler 12V) which runs to a junction BOX, directly to a wire labeled 'hot' to one side of the AMP meter. (This was on the wrong side I believe, at first as it showed a charge when the wire sparked. I reversed it and it now shows a draw)

    - The wire from the other side of the AMP meter goes to the large post on the STARTER, which is also hooked up to the positive BATTERY cable.

    So, in conclusion, I have a forever hot lead that wants to motor my generator and I don't know what's on wrong. Thanks for your help.

    Jonny
     
  2. Elrod
    Joined: Aug 7, 2002
    Posts: 3,563

    Elrod
    Member

    You don't have a cut out, or a regulator? Your generator needs to go to a cut out or a regulator. This shuts the generator off when you're stopped.
     
  3. FiddyFour
    Joined: Dec 31, 2004
    Posts: 9,008

    FiddyFour
    Member

    i didnt think a generator needed a "field" wire to excite it like an alternator... just the regulator? :confused:
     
  4. Elrod
    Joined: Aug 7, 2002
    Posts: 3,563

    Elrod
    Member

    I didn't say he needed a field wire... Generator needs to go to a regulator before going to the wiring in the car.
     

  5. FiddyFour
    Joined: Dec 31, 2004
    Posts: 9,008

    FiddyFour
    Member

    my bad. . . :eek:
     
  6. Jonnyhotrod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2003
    Posts: 430

    Jonnyhotrod
    Member


    I do have it hooked to a regulator. I gapped the points today, as we'd assumed it was stuck. Those are hooked up as they should be, so far as I know to Field, Arm and Batt.

    Jonny
     
  7. Elrod
    Joined: Aug 7, 2002
    Posts: 3,563

    Elrod
    Member

    I would try polorizing the generator. Arc a wire across the BATT & ARM terminals to do that. Do it with the car not running.

    Operating your electrical system "un-polarized" usually means you will discharge your battery because the regulator won't disconnect when engine is off. Nor will it connect when genny is charging. So your ampmeter never shows a charge.
     
  8. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 50,282

    squirrel
    Member

  9. Jonnyhotrod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2003
    Posts: 430

    Jonnyhotrod
    Member


    Thanks guy's I'm gonna try these things and look over the diagrams to find the problem. Would the generator not being polarized cause it to motor if everything else is connected properly? That line is HOT and arcs off everything. There's got to be a wire hooked on the wrong side of something. This lead is going from the ammeter to a junction box under the dash to the generator, so it's a straight shot, as the junction is simply a connector. The other side of the meter is wired to the starter post that is also hooked directly to the pos side of the battery. I'm just having trouble understanding why that wire is live. The power has got to be going through the ammeter to that wire to make it live... right. Damn, I'm confused now. I guess I'll need to try and figure it out when I get home from work.

    Jonny
     
  10. Elrod
    Joined: Aug 7, 2002
    Posts: 3,563

    Elrod
    Member

    It should go from your amp meter, to the junction box, to the voltage regulator, and then to your generator.


    The generator is also a motor. If it's spinning, it creates electricity.

    If a battery is connected to it, an there is no switch (that's your voltage regulator) stopping the backwards current to the generator, you are going to get a drain because your generator is trying to act as a DC motor.

    If it's not polorized, it won't trip the switch in the voltage regulator, and therefore would ge constantly hot and motor.
     
  11. Jonnyhotrod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2003
    Posts: 430

    Jonnyhotrod
    Member

    Excellent! I am gonna go over this tonight and see what's up when I get home at 10. Hopefully I get this worked out tomorrow. Thanks guys!

    jonny
     
  12. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 50,282

    squirrel
    Member


    The heavy wire from the Generator should go to the ARM (or GEN) connection on the voltage regulator, and the BATT connection on the regulator should go to the ammeter and other vehicle wiring.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Jonnyhotrod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2003
    Posts: 430

    Jonnyhotrod
    Member


    Ok... I made a little map of my engine related wiring this morning and took some pics... Looking at schematics is making my eyes hurt. I have attached the rough drawing of what I traced out and the corresponding photos in order #s 1-8. If something obvious jumps out at you please feel free to let me know, as I'm not seeing it.

    1- Drawing
    2- Generator HOT wire to,
    3- Junction Box under dash to,
    4- Ammeter to,
    5- Starter to (to battery and to Regulator through some mystery switch)
    6- Key/Start Button on other side of starter to,
    7- Harness to back of car to,
    8- Regulator/Fuse Block

    Jonny
     

    Attached Files:

    • 1.jpg
      1.jpg
      File size:
      17.6 KB
      Views:
      55
    • 2.jpg
      2.jpg
      File size:
      39.3 KB
      Views:
      61
    • 3.jpg
      3.jpg
      File size:
      37.1 KB
      Views:
      50
    • 4.jpg
      4.jpg
      File size:
      39.7 KB
      Views:
      63
    • 5.jpg
      5.jpg
      File size:
      38.2 KB
      Views:
      50
    • 6.jpg
      6.jpg
      File size:
      41.4 KB
      Views:
      76
    • 7.jpg
      7.jpg
      File size:
      50.7 KB
      Views:
      54
    • 8.jpg
      8.jpg
      File size:
      34 KB
      Views:
      48
  14. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 50,282

    squirrel
    Member

    It's pretty obvious that the generator is NOT wired up like it should be. See that little schematic in my last post? the generator is supposed to be connected ONLY to the regulator. Both wires from the gen should go straight to the regulator! I'm pretty sure that's your problem.

    Also the ammeter should be in between the battery and the rest of the wiring, EXCEPT the big fat wire from the battery to the starter does not go thru the ammeter. Also if there's a bigass stereo in the car, wire that straight to the battery. The correct wiring for the ammeter is also shown in my little schematic above. You should connect the ignition switch BATT terminal, and all the other fuses that need full time power, to that wire that goes from the B terminal on the regulator to the ammeter.
     
  15. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 50,282

    squirrel
    Member

    I'll work on making some changes to your schematic, so you can see what you need to do.
     
  16. Jonnyhotrod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2003
    Posts: 430

    Jonnyhotrod
    Member

    Thank you! It runs fine... Fires right up. I'm surprised it's so out of whack. I appreciate it.

    Jonny
     
  17. Flatulus Antiquitus
    Joined: Aug 13, 2006
    Posts: 27

    Flatulus Antiquitus
    Member
    from SoCal

    Jonny,

    You're on the right track by making the schematic, but I can't read parts of it. What is the box just below the generator, the voltage regulator? Or is the volt reg in the lower right? Also what is the name on the wire coming out the right side of the key going to the fuse block? Gotta make sure the voltage reg is wired as shown in the diagram squirrel posted.

    _Flat_
     
  18. Jonnyhotrod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2003
    Posts: 430

    Jonnyhotrod
    Member

    The box below the Generator is a junction box under the dash. That's where everything comes together from outside and inside. Regulator IS lower right. The wire coming out of the key to the right is labeled "Back of Car"... I have no idea what that little box between the battery and regulator is (seen in last pic).

    Jonny
     
  19. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 50,282

    squirrel
    Member

    here's a revised drawing. I did not even look at the stuff in the upper right corner, with the ignition wiring....

    All I did on this is to move the ammeter to where it should be, and moved the wires to the generator so they go straight to the regulator.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Jonnyhotrod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2003
    Posts: 430

    Jonnyhotrod
    Member

    THANK YOU! I'm at work right now, so I'll look it over and make a comparison to my sketch and dive into it tomorrow. This board is priceless. You saved me a lot of worry.

    Jonny
     
  21. Jonnyhotrod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2003
    Posts: 430

    Jonnyhotrod
    Member

    I've been looking over the differences between the schematics. It looks like the key side of the starter and the related components are ok, as is the Field side of the generator to the regulator. Right now I have the line coming out of the breaker from the regulator running to the battery directly, where it is spliced into the battery post clamp... According to your drawing, this line will need to run to the ammeter and then back to the battery? There it will meet up with the battery cable that runs to the starter. The heavy red line running from my generator is currently running to the starter (after going thru ammeter) in my drawing, which is wrong. It just sort of ends there and patches into the line to the battery. Where I'm getting lost is how the wire gets directly to the Regulator from the generator, as "Arm" on the regulator is currently running to the fuse block, opposite "ON" on the key switch, where the circuit would complete. Where do these wires go? I just want to be sure I have this down before I end up with a lap full of wires. I feel like I'm somehow taking out a lot. If this is confusing, I can clarify if I can. Thanks.
     
  22. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 50,282

    squirrel
    Member

    Just run new 2 wires straight from the generator to the regulator, they should not go thru any fuse or junction blocks.

    The ammeter wires do need to go in between the regulator and the battery, so be very careful how you route them, and use heavy wire (#10) and grommets where they go thru the firewall.

    You might want to do away with the ammeter...you could use a voltmeter instead, just connect it to the IGN terminal on the ignition switch (or any of the fuses that get power from there), and the other side to ground.
     
  23. Jonnyhotrod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2003
    Posts: 430

    Jonnyhotrod
    Member

    Ok... One last clarification for now; What's going to be on the other side of the "ON" wire on the fuse panel if I'm wiring the Regulator directly to the Generator with the heavy wire? Do I just keep it as is with the small black wire and put the line from the Generator on the same post on the Regulator? Or does the breaker somehow take care of that? I'm just curious how all that circuitry is gonna work out if that link is broken... I'll work on this and see how I make out. I'm a little freaked out that I'm gonna royally screw this up.
     
  24. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 50,282

    squirrel
    Member

    Nothing will be on the other side of the fuse panel from the ON wire, take that wire out. Run a new wire from the regulator A terminal to the generator A terminal.

    It looks like maybe the car had an alternator in it at one time, and someone changed to a generator, but left it wired like an alternator would be. They don't work the same.....you do not need a wire from the key to make the generator work.
     
  25. Jonnyhotrod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2003
    Posts: 430

    Jonnyhotrod
    Member

    You're correct! This harness was originally built for an alternator. Since I wanted an authentic looking car, I had it rewired for a generator. Wondering about that connection was driving me a little foolish, but if it's not needed I will take it out. Thank you SO much. I hope this clears it up! :)

    Jonny
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.