The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Chaz, Apr 30, 2012.
bs x 2
I have used a lot of Omni and do not think it is crap. But . I do not use it when doing a new car match. You use high end to get the right match. That is what you are paying for. But here is an actual case in point. A customer wanted his car painted a blue that was mentioned on TV. OK, I went to find out hoiw much it was. Well in top of the line PPG, it was $1048 a gallon. And that was with my discount. Why??? because it had crazy pearls in it. Ther paint shop would have to special order the pearls. So customer had a second choice, it was $600 a gallon. BUT . . they had a formula in Omni for the same paint. It was $200. So they mixed me a 1oz sample of both. Make a long story short the customer could not tell the difference, so we did it with Omni. Coverage was no problem. Certain colors can be a problem covering . . but to say "Omni" is crap , not fair. It has it place and it's used a lot. Some of the expensive additives that are used in paints that bring the price sky high . . just don't matter to some people. I bought paint for a '68 AMX recently. The red was $130 or so in Omni and with clear we were under $300. Sure primers are more and reducers, hardeners etc. But I've done m,any a car with the basic package being under $400. So it can and is done and it looks great.I have one of those that has been on the road for about 7 years . . still looks great.
Another point to make. If you paid me to do your car time and materials ( now we know your materials would be a bit more Let's be honest ) I could only guess that I would end up charging in the $6K- $8K range. It's a guess, but based on what I have done recently and the work it needed. But the majority of the price is going to be labor. This is how I see it, your glasses may read differently
if you buy quality materials,yes is would add up to this.
my weekly metal work blog www,themetalsurgeon.com
I just finished all the metalwork on a 32 for a friend. He just got a quote to do it once, do it right from bare metal and was quoted $10K, etch primer, primer, hi fill, paint and colour sand. Thank goodness I'll do everything on my cars and get him in to spray the final colour.
Eh, painting a car is about what makes you happy. If you want a deep, shiny finish that will win awards, then yes you'll spend $10,000, especially in this day and age of runaway EPA regulations.
On the other hand, my current beater is painted with about 10 cans of Rustoleum spray paint, and it shows in places. But a couple of the doors were swapped on from another vehicle, have a couple winters on them (painted the same way and white over dark blue at that), and look fine; the average joe wouldn't know the difference if I'd spent a little bit more time on the finish on them. From 50 feet, I can't tell either, and I can live with that. You can make one look okay on the cheap, but it won't win any trophies.
The best answer to saving money on paint work is to do the prep yourself, as labor is where a lot of the money is going to be. I don't think anyone really enjoys sanding.
Driver quality to me means all the detailing isn't there. Perhaps, jambs not painted ( when original color is sprayed ), possibly no cut and buff. Perhaps a SS instead of BC/CC. Perhaps more filler, less metal work, etc. The final coat doesn't have to appear any different, just not as much money in the details.
A guy laughed at me when I told him what I am paying to have two cars painted, a 32 roadster and an ot car. The ot is a rotisserie restoration and the 32 is full paint and minor bondo/alignment I left for him to do.
He told me he can get a friends ot car (large vehicle) done for 3k including interior and its as good as the paint job I am getting. He swore up and down. I lookeed at his car, his car is so happy, it waves at you coming and going
The gaps are all over the place, they painted over rust. The interior looks like the took the old rotted door panels and stretched viny over them.
I showed him and explained and he could not see the difference.
Thats fine for him if it makes him happy but his ignorance and teling everyone how guys like me are fools just makes me laugh.
To me it's all about the guy doing the work. I will pay what work is worth. I charge by the hour for my job so i know what experience means. Look at it this way. Someone who has been doing body work for 20 years has about 40,000 hours of experience. I bondo'd and painted a car in 1983 so i have 100 hours of experience. I bet he knows how to do it right. Imagine someone who spent 40,000 hours practicing guitar. Might not be Eric Clapton but will be pretty damn good.
I took my 32 to a shop to get a quote to paint just my bare frame with no metal work and all assembly by me - $3500. He did great work but I didn't get a good vibe from him. So I'll keep looking. On the other hand, the guy who helped me set up my chassis was "too" honest and did some extra work without charging me for it. When I picked up my car I gave him an extra $200 cash for beer money.
Workmanship is always worth the extra cost.
I have a lot of respect for people who do paint and body work for a living. I am currently prepping my car for paint and having the paint shot for me. I have spent hours upon hours blocking and then finish shanding just to get it right. I'm in education and I thought I was under paid, no way!!! Painters/body guys are really under paid for the amount of time it takes to get a car done right.
Most shops wont even touch a resto job.. to many headaches.. Shops now a days are more into insurance work.. faster money, less problems.. maybe get pointers on how to to the work your self and ask questions to the many here that are familiar with the tasks.. by the time your done.. 8000 wouldnt of been a bad deal.. its alot of work, space to do the job and equipment to do the job costs.. chances are 8000 wouldnt be the final bill.. the more you dig.. the more expensive it gets..
Except "Cheap and high quality" that doesn't work in real life. I refuse to do paint or body work on customer cars anymore because the pay just isn't worth it. And there is generally no respect for painters because people think that they are scam artists when in reality they are starving artists. If you're thinking about getting into the autobody/paint trade DON'T DO IT if you enjoy paying your bills and feeding your family.
As far as our own projects go, getting a car to the point of being shiny and perfect is a never ending uphill battle that distracts us from the real point of this hobby, DRIVING OUR CARS. It's not worth it, scuff it down, Shoot a $50 coat of sealer on it and drive it. Life is WAAAAY too short to waste painting a car and fussing over pointless details.
In other words, shiny paint is dumb and pointless.
In other words, shiny paint is dumb and pointless.
You're full of shit.
I second that!
If you break it down-labor, material, time, effort, environmental regulations, overhead, versus say an $8,000 paint job. nobodys getting rich.
My hats off to you bodyshop guys, you work your ass off, for a net small return.
I gotta agree with Chaz, body and paint guys often do not get the credit they deserve. When I did my '56 F100 that is my avatar back in '96 I decided to do it all myself. After sandblasting the entire cab, then sanding and priming the bed and fiberglass front clip I thought I had a pretty good handle on it. WRONG! Painting it all was a bitch and sanding out the runs was a real pain in the ass! My hat is off to you guys, body and paint is much harder than mechanical or electrical work in my book. Next time around I'll find a quality painter and accept his quote.
I've done mechanical, electrical, interior, body and paint. I'll take mechanical over any of them. Then interior. I kinda like both of those. Body and paint isn't what you might call "hard", but man is it a pain in the ass. I just don't have the patience for it. I don't mind the painting as much as the body work, but wet-sanding sucks. Body/paint truly takes a special kind of person. You have to be a perfectionist. You have to have patience. And you have to have a good eye for the slightest flaw, as well as the integrity to fix even the slightest flaw, since it'll become a bigger flaw down the road. I sure as hell couldn't do it for a living. There's a TON of satisfaction watching your paint start to polish out when you get to 1500 grit, the rubbing compound, then buffing compound, the polish, each step bringing out more and more shine, but it's hard, monotonous work. Hats off to anyone who does it for a living and does it well.
Electrical work just plain SUCKS.
Yep!! I'm about ready to pack it all in!!!
Thanks to all the ungrateful pricks that reckon I have been ripping them off, when in reality, I have only just broken even, or, even worse, lost money!!
The amount of late nights, weekends, and holidays I have worked through just to finish their cars on time and still do a good job, and all I've earnt is below the minimum wage!!!
After all the years doing Hot rod work, all I've earned is, many paint awards for the cars I've done, no money, no house, no family, and a bad name for being too expensive!!!!!
Anyone thinking of doing custom painting or Hot rod or resto work.....DONT DO IT!!!!.....
Go mow lawns!!!, more money and less stress and customers will still talk to you at hot rod events!!
Sure 8 grand for a ultra high end paint job is worth it!!
Especially if the customer has got money falling out of her/his pockets.
But no normal working person can afford to put that in paint, or any one thing else, for that matter.
Which is why, I just being a average working joe, have had to try and learn to do stuff myself, and also learn to be happy with what I got and the best that I can do.
Also I guess it depends alot where you live.
If anybody put in a shop, and charged 8 grand of a paint job, in my neck pf the woods, I would most likely be trying to get paint/bodywork advice from them, while we were standing in the local foodstamp line.
This whole conversation is the reason why I stayed away from street rods and hot rods. Rodders are DYI'ers. When I was a young guy I did a tilt front for a guy that said he would advertise the hell out of my work and I would get all kinds of business. I was at the paint store and was told the guy was going around telling everyone he did the work. Did it again for a guy that was active with the street rod crowd. Never got a thing for it except his buddies wanting to bring their cars in my shop and "help me" work on them... ya right.. I'll bring my block to the machine shop and help the machinst line bore it and deck it. Or help the upholstery guy sew up my interior...
Never could understand why the bodyshop was supposed to be the chump in the equation when the paint job is first thing you see from as far off as the horizon to your reflection when you take the circular walk around the car.
I moved on to working on Porsches. The guys that own them make real money, go to work in a suit and tip with their wallet. My advise, take a lesson from them. I'm not in the business anymore and don't miss chasing the carrot. You can justify your ability to only be able to afford a cheap back yard job by saying "it's good enough for me" That's fine, but be honest first and say my back yard job will never win the Riddler but it's all I could afford.
In life you get what you pay for if your lucky.
In business a good job is one you make money completing. No matter how good it looks to the public if the business doesn't make a profit doing it, it's a bad job. Fact. The sooner you youngs learn this the less you will suffer through life. That's the side of the $ 8000.00 paint job you guys never seem to think about.
You can't get an "ultra high end paint job" for $8k, anyone that claims they are doing one for that is losing money.
Painters have my utmost respect.. A craftsman that's honed his/her skills for years deserves respect and the cash.
The fellows that are on here complaining about 8k for paint might want to look at it this way;
Put it into perspective by dividing how long that paint is gonna look good on your ride. Twenty years? Thirty? Let's say 25 for the sake of argument. 8 grand divided by 25 years equals 320 dollars (per year). For less than a buck a day, you can have a pretty decent shiny paintjob...
This about says it all.
I totally agree, figure hrs. on job at a modest $35.00 per hour, materials, and gray area costs which every job has, if it ends up (ultra nice job) the owner gets the deal and painter really worked for $10.00 per hour. Who will work that hard for minimum wage today? Al
My next project wont have shiny paint,just too much work and money plus too much work keeping clean when you have more then one with good paint and aluminum wheels. From now on low maintenance.
I would just like to take this opportunity to make it absolutely clear that the words "in other words, shiny paint is dumb and pointless" was a stupid quote taken from a numbskull post earlier. I never said that.
I merely pointed out that said quote was, is and ever shall be bullshit.
Junkyard Jeff, dull paint or primer doesn't make your next project "low maintenance", in my humble opinion it just makes you lazy.
Now that's funny, I've found a lot of Porsche owner's to be a little on the wanting/compensating side of life. I wouldn't take a lesson from them on their best day. Plenty of people make real money, my bank tells me I do and I've NEVER worn a suit to work and I tip.
No, 8k isn't a lot for a paint job considering the work that goes in. I know, I worked in a body shop when I was a kid and always got stuck with prep work and sanding. We charged around $1000 and that was in 73, you get what you pay for, true then, true now
We stopped doing all bodywork past the metal stage, because we could not match our customers expectations on quality in relationship to what they wanted to pay. Everybody wanted a $10k+ paint job, but wanted to pay $3k. We did not want to be associated with $3k paint jobs.
It other places in the country, the cost-of-living and cost of business operation might be low enough that a $3k paint job might be pretty damned good, but out here, it probably will not be. That, and even on Friday at the burger joint, you may be parked next to a $10k+ job, on a daily driver rod.
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