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Technical Edelbrock Blues

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by vafan, Apr 3, 2014.

  1. vafan
    Joined: Oct 12, 2009
    Posts: 26

    vafan
    Member
    from Virginia

    I have a flooding problem with the 302 Ford engine in my 48 Ford. After running well for about 400 miles after installation, the engine started to miss soon after startup and get progressively worse until it finally stalls. This happened both at idle and under load.

    Turning off the fuel pump when the miss started, caused the engine to clear and run smoothly until it began to run out of fuel. Restarting the fuel pump would bring the motor back to smooth operation for about 5-10 seconds and then the miss would resume. Turning off the fuel pump again repeats the process.

    The first time this happened, I disassembled the carburetor (Edelbrock 1405) and reset the float levels (height and drop), checked the floats for holes and needle valves and bowls for dirt and could find nothing wrong. Reinstalling the carburetor showed no improvement.

    Having a bit of a short fuse and wanting an electric choke anyway, I bought a new 1406 Edelbrock and installed it. Everything seemed OK, so the next day I drove to a show (about 50 miles) with no problems.

    When I tried to start the engine after the show, it was flooded. When I got it cleared and running, the miss was back. I drove it home turning the fuel pump off when it stumbled (after about 6 seconds of pumping) and back on when it began to run out of fuel (about 30 seconds of cruising speed).

    The fuel pump is an adjustable JEGS unit set to 5.5 pounds. It is installed just forward of and below the tank. Thinking its internal regulator might have failed, I added a regulator between the pump and the carburetor and set it at 5 lbs. I also installed a new filter just before the regulator. The tank was installed new when the engine was put in and there is a second filter between the tank and the pump.

    I’m stumped. Anyone got any ideas?
     
  2. hotstuff1
    Joined: Mar 7, 2012
    Posts: 26

    hotstuff1
    Member

    May be heat soak , fuel expansion from heat . Does it do this when cold or just when motor reaches temp. ?
     
  3. Larry T
    Joined: Nov 24, 2004
    Posts: 7,669

    Larry T
    Member

    This discussion comes up about once a week here.

    Have you checked out what fuel pressure your pump is putting out?
     
  4. hotstuff1
    Joined: Mar 7, 2012
    Posts: 26

    hotstuff1
    Member

    Its a Edelbrock common problem
     

  5. not the Edelbrock carb, you used 2 of them

    air cleaner dirty?

    do they use that crapy gas with alcohol in it in Virginia like they do here in WA ?

    sounds like too much fuel pressure but you said you have a regulator. Do you have a fuel pressure gauge to verify the pressure?
     
  6. PKap
    Joined: Jan 5, 2011
    Posts: 593

    PKap
    Member
    from Alberta

    I was running into a similar deal on my International. It turned out that I had a weak condenser. As it warmed up, the ignition would get weaker until it flooded and died. I also tried two carbs and several regulator configurations before it got figured out. I would go through your whole ignition set up to see if it's something similar.


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  7. 19Eddy30
    Joined: Mar 27, 2011
    Posts: 1,305

    19Eddy30
    Member
    from VA

    Check fuel Presser with a good quality known guauge ,
    Ajust fuel to about 4psi if not a race motor , use a good
    quality fuel regulator with alky seals , cheap
    Ones Kreep up the fuel Presser, junk on crapy gas with 10% alky.
    I Ran a Edelbrock on my dually (454) for 15yrs No problem
    Now the Edelbrck 94 JUNK!!!
    Also make shure air filter is clean.
     
  8. mustang6147
    Joined: Feb 26, 2010
    Posts: 1,847

    mustang6147
    Member
    from Kent, Ohio

    Its dirt. I had issues, it was dirt, and it came from the glue in the filter coming apart.

    Edelbrocks operate best about 7psi. If you run less its to avoid a problem from another cause. Dirt could be from the new style gas in the rubber hose, to the glue as stated before. They are good carbs, but I am a Holley man. My edelbrock ran best clean at 7.5 psi of fuel pressure
     
  9. 383man
    Joined: Jul 22, 2008
    Posts: 103

    383man
    Member
    from Md

    The miss is what has me wondering. I had trouble with this cheap pump gas fuel boiling in the carb bowls in hot weather and flooding the eng. The eng was not overheating its just with a big 14" air cleaner I had it would hold alot ot heat right over the carb bowls. And this pump gas with all this ethanal in it boils at lower tems then the good old gas did. When it did it I had to keep my foot on the gas to keep it running and had to get moving to get air moving under the hood. A few things help as about every 3rd tank of gas I put some race gas in it. I also went to a smaller 9" air cleaner and it has not done it anymore. But it did not have a dead miss just sounded like any car flooding out as it blew black smoke and want to stall. Course it is possible if its running rich some you may have fouled a plug. Have you looked at the plugs after this happens ? Ron
     
  10. vafan
    Joined: Oct 12, 2009
    Posts: 26

    vafan
    Member
    from Virginia

    Thanks all for the come-backs.

    To Hotstuff1: If I've had the carb(s) apart (going on 4+ times for each) it will run smoothly for 10-15 miles before the miss starts. After that it starts right after startup.

    To Larry T and 19Eddy30: I've had two gauges on it (both Summit inlet mounted) and they agree its running at 5 lbs.

    To Gearheadruss: The air cleaner is new. I run only non-alcohol premium gas (costs $4.09 vs $3.35 for the regular crap). Again the pressure is 5 lbs.

    To Pkap: Hadn't thought about it being ignition. But I can control the miss and flooding by turning the fuel pump on and off. Doesn't that kind of say its got to be a fuel issue?

    To Mustang6147: Just ran four gallons of fuel through the tank, pump and all the lines into coffee strainers. Absolutely no sign of any crap.

    To 383man: The plugs go all sooty and getting a restart results in black smoke. But if I get it running and shut off the pump, it clears its throat and runs smooth as a kitten until the fuel starts to run out - hit the pump for 5-6 seconds and it comes back clear then starts to miss. Kill the pump again and it comes right back.

    Any other thoughts??
     
  11. I have never had this trouble with the 2 1405s we have on our 53 and the 55. I run 6psi of fuel pressure.
     
  12. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,792

    tfeverfred
    Member Emeritus

    Edelbrocks like 4-4 1/2 PSI.
     
  13. 270ci
    Joined: May 17, 2010
    Posts: 398

    270ci
    Member

    "Kill the pump again and it comes right back." You would think it is fuel related, but PKay may be onto something. Just a wild shot...when your fuel pump is running the electrical system is using more amps, right?...any possibility your pump is robbing power from your ignition?
     
  14. PKap
    Joined: Jan 5, 2011
    Posts: 593

    PKap
    Member
    from Alberta

    I feel your pain. Took me months to get mine figured out. I still think you should check out the electrical side, since you have gone over everything on the fuel side. Possibly there is a wiring issue on the pump circuit that, as it heats up, you get a voltage drop to your ignition, ( a car I bought once had the pump run off of the coil). It could also be running off of your "run" side of the ignition switch with the same result. Maybe try a jumpered wire to the pump, bypassing the existing circuitry and see if that helps.
    Regardless, I wish you luck.


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  15. tjet
    Joined: Mar 16, 2009
    Posts: 1,276

    tjet
    Member
    1. Early Hemi Tech

    Is your float adjusted correctly? While you are there, install a new vitron coated needle for your floats needle & seat assembly.
     
  16. try running a new 10ga wire to the pump from a different 12v source,this could be temporary as a test.
     
  17. vafan
    Joined: Oct 12, 2009
    Posts: 26

    vafan
    Member
    from Virginia

    Pump is on a relay run from the battery. Am going to order new valves and seats and a rebuild kit for a 650 Holley thats been on the shelf for a few years. Will report.
    Thanks for all the help!


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  18. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    We chased what we thought was a vapor lock situation on my Sons rpu for a while. It would run great for about 10 miles and then black smoke would start to come out of the headers and it would stall. We would pull the tops off all 3 carbs and put it back together and it would run good for another 10 miles, so it had to be fuel related......WRONG ! It turned out to be a coil that was overheating because we had it mounted horizontally and once we replaced the coil and mounted it straight up and down the problem never came back.

    Feel your coil when this happens to see if it is getting hot.........a little heat is normal but not burning hot.

    Don
     
  19. Try setting the electric fuel pump regulator at 2 to 3 lbs pressure. HRP
     
  20. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    That is where I run the two 600 cfm edelbrocks on my 27 and it works great. Never had a fuel starvation problem with it that low either (3 psi)

    Don
     
  21. rfraze
    Joined: May 23, 2012
    Posts: 2,005

    rfraze
    Member

    Lots of good possibilities here. During a previous discussion about these carbs someone mentioned getting the floats adjusted correctly, which included up and down stops. They swore by it, so I will mention it.
    Our HUGE problems with Edelbrocks was solved by a pressure regulator in line, even though we had purchased their street pump which was "supposed' to run under X pressure. I think we got the problem stopped at 5 or less. If fuel waterfalls down the back barrels when you shut it off, you have the same problem we did, too much fuel pressure. I even filled the top of the intake manifold up with fuel one day trying to get it back to the shop. Got luck that day.
     
  22. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,856

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    You put a new filter before the regulator--- but it is still possible that your fuel lines are disintegrating from the inside between the regulator and the carb. I've seen it happen more than once. Little black rubber bits in the fuel inlet and float bowls.
     
  23. Please post when find the fix. There are a lot of us running that carb.
     
  24. woodiewagon46
    Joined: Mar 14, 2013
    Posts: 1,916

    woodiewagon46
    Member
    from New York

    vafan, I am running Edelbrocks on both of my cars. My '32 has 55K on the odo and my '46 has 35K both with no problems. I am running 4 PSI and I suspect you have a fuel pressure problem. We had one guy in our club that could not keep his car running and he found his fuel pump that was pushing 11 psi. He installed a fuel pressure regulator and adjusted it to 4 PSI and the car ran great from then on. Keep us posted!
     
  25. racer_dave
    Joined: Nov 16, 2012
    Posts: 206

    racer_dave
    Member

    Did you try a different style of air cleaner or different brand of filter? Maybe what you're using is restricting airflow? Does it do the same with no filter element?
     
  26. landseaandair
    Joined: Feb 23, 2009
    Posts: 4,473

    landseaandair
    Member
    from phoenix

    Pretty unlikely two carbs would do it but any chance a seat washer is leaking?
     
  27. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    We are seeing more and more fuel lines coming apart from ethanol gas in the boat business. We had a whole batch of fuel hose turn to white powder internally from the stuff. It is also causing fuel lines to prematurely harden and crack.

    I think Mike has a good suggestion to follow up on.

    Don
     
  28. Standard gas&oil
    Joined: Dec 3, 2010
    Posts: 289

    Standard gas&oil
    Member
    from USA #1

    It's the fuel pressure!!! install a regulator and set it at 4-4.5 PSI and the problem will go away. By no means increase the pressure to 7.5 PSI
     
  29. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 3,451

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you don't have one of these between your carb and your intake, buy one now. The fuel will literally boil in your carb bowl if you don't have one of these. Don't believe me? Take the cover off the carb after it's been running 15 minutes and watch it.

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-9266/overview/
     
  30. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    What is funny is that I have always run Edelbrocks with no phenolic spacers, in fact my 27 has had two of them for 25 years, with no carb heating issues. But my Son has two of them on basically the same sbf engine and one hot Summer day when we were all out on a cruise his T began to shut down and run badly. When we felt the carbs they were boiling hot. The only difference between his car and mine is that he has a very polished aluminum intake and we sort of figured the chrome-like finish was reflecting the sun onto the carbs.

    Before Summer this year we are going to put two spacers under his carbs to help with that problem.

    Don
     

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