The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'Traditional Customs' started by Austinrod, Aug 23, 2016.
i'ii melt the butter... My guess is this will be closed and disappear before the first kernel pops,
There's a whole bunch of stuff "funny" here, but this is the most telling for me. There is not a TRACE of red paint on the frame horns or bumpers visible in ANY of the photos, and the black is heavily weathered. We are supposed to believe that he kept the grill as-is and sandblasted the frame horns before he painted them black?
If it is the truck,hope it does get restored to original!Love Roth art!
In the color pics of it's in-the-day finish I see some light green. I see some red n white on the fender edge under the hood. I have to draw on the past here, but what do we think "Big" used when he painted it? Do we think he lacquered it and meticulously sanded and polished? Did he pull off a few tricks, slam a white enamel finish over it, later the iconic (today) flames, also in enamel? I've met and spoken to Dave a couple times myself, spent a morning at Galpin last Nov. I'd say there's some qualified folk involved in what's going on there. What's the chance the truck's finish was peeling off? Did someone just buzz it down and toss another green finish over the top? Did the work Roth do fade into the blazing CA sun? Regardless of what we think today, back then it was a truck. Roth wanted a "mobile sign" that was all him back then, but it was still a truck. Not long ago there was a bit of a rush on 56 Ford pickups. Not much of a stretch to imagine a quick refinish and sale, getting rid of all but the grille, which someone may have thought looked kool in there even on a clean green truck. No skin in the game so I have no rt hand to raise, but were I a gambler I'd lay it on this as real, as well as on the folks around it.
Off to Riksters to se what he has on Ford pickups...
I don't trust anyone who says " Iskyderian"
Jimmy Hoffa was found hiding behind the seat
The rear taillight are identical with the pin striping too
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Well, this may be considered Blasphemy by some of you guys, but I have to ask.....so what if it IS Roth's old truck ?
The paint job that so identified it in the day is gone, Roth is gone, 'restoring it' will be more like replicating it. I have never understood the notion that celebrity ownership adds to the value of a vehicle in particular, or much of anything else in general.
If the object were custom made, or custom modified, for the celebrity owner it may very well have more value but I think it does primarily because of it's custom nature, not the celebrity's association with the item.
In the end, this appears to be a pretty solid '56 Ford pickup to resurrect and in my way of thinking that alone confers the bulk of it's value. Whatever the value might be for a like truck without "Provenance". If it was Roth's truck and the owner wants to paint it in the scheme that Roth did in memory of Roth, have at it. But it is still just an otherwise desirable '56 Ford pickup.
Pinball Wizard post #6 .... gave ya' a pretty good link ..... zzzzzzzz
Wonder what is under that tailgate skin?
And of course there are so many 56 Ford trucks with Packard V8s in em....? No secret here that I'm a Packard guy but they're pretty much a rare performance choice. I'd guess it was a "deal" or had it laying around.
Being the artifact it is and the folks who have it, well, value and provenance is a given, no? I'd put it back too, and also perceive it's added value vs a solid 56 pickup.
START WATER SANDING!!!!! the top layer off to expose ed's work...an who in their right mind would have painted over such to begin with...
I'm not buying that its ed's truck till you do a video of the sanding an post it to expose the truth of the matter an it does matter no one likes fraud.
A cool find, like a needle in the haystack.
As Highlanders tag line says---There can be only one.
It's a great find, and if authentic, a restoration is easily called for. Roth was a pivotal person in hot rod history. Shuten would know. He's had his hands on a lot of Roths automobilia.
Call me skeptical, hopefull and jealous
The only problem I have is all the truly distinguishing pieces are bolt on. If it is real, it's a damn shame somebody went to those extremes to totally cover a Van Gogh of hotrod art history. I'd say the new owners did their homework though, not their first square dance.
The yellow w/black letter '56 issue plates on the truck when Roth owned it would have been retired for the black w/yellow letter '63 plates as CA reissued plates every 6-7 years back then.
My guess would be that during the green repaint (or even before the green paint), the Roth grille became a garage wall hanger in favor of a chrome plated grille "upgrade" which has always been a good looking addition to F 100's. It found it's way back on the truck for the big sale. Condition of the grille paint and striping indicate they only saw weathering for a few years.
I'd say the timeline looked like this;
Seafoam green truck (as seen in post #6 link pics of inner glove box and firewall) painted white by Roth.
Post Roth saw the truck scuffed out and repainted dark green. With green as a color choice, the owner was pretty much obligated to a complete interior repaint of white interior (dash, etc). Not too big a job as all that needed to come out was the red seat. Quick masking of the gauges (see pics of the instrument panel glass with green paint on it). Like Roth, it was quick n dirty as the glove box lid stayed closed for the shoot.
At this time (or earlier), the Roth grille was probably swapped for a chromie.
Naysayers may cry foul and perhaps feel the grille and taillights were bolted onto a different (non Roth) truck.
But what about the Packard engine and back mounted S/W tach (any Roth ere pics of the dash picturing the tach?)?
I'm sure Galpin verified and has more info than we have here. Perhaps VIN verification, old registration cards and possibly early photos from the owner?
Surely some hot rodder out there knows some history (maybe Galpin has it)....but even in back in the day, you don't take a show truck like this, paint it green and start using it on the farm. Somebody knows if it is real or what happened to the rest of the real one etc. But it would be super cool if it were authentic...
I'm hoping it is Edd's truck. Would be nice to know it survived. I was reading on another sight that he bought a White truck and added the flames. Kind of makes me question even more the Floor and Firewall.
The motor mounts appear to be hand built and very well done. I'm going to look through my Small Mag's. I believe I have the 57 issue with the truck in it. Just maybe there's a photo showing the motor and the mounts. That would be a big plus.
If you follow the link on page one you will see a photo of said Truck on a trailer with No grill at all and a front tire not looking so good.
Can't wait to see this done!
Didn't '56 still have chains for tail gate fastenings?
This one has those lever type closers.
I think they just left the chains off the latch.
If the truck is to be restored, the cap has to come off the tailgate. Get 'er done and see what's under there.
I have to agree with this mostly. It does have a cool factor that he owned it (if he did) but it has that SAME bragging rights whether it's restored or as it sits. The paint job is what made the truck what it was, but that is long gone. When someone else paints it, there is no difference in them just painting another truck. It won't be a Roth paint job, it will be someone else's.
Would anyone be exited if someone took a glove box lid or trunk that Von Dutch once striped, sanded it down to bare metal, then did a replicated stripe job on it? Pretty much the same idea.
Would be different if it were one of the crazy car builds where all the truly custom tricks were done, because that is still his work.
For those saying the grille doesn't fit the rest of the car, here's a photo from the site listed earlier on this thread. Looks like it was removed long ago and put away for safe keeping. Looks like Roths truck.
would roth have left the engine mounts and inner fender torch cut after doing all the other work
This is what I was going to suggest. Were there any underhood photos in the old magazine articles? Comparing details to the current underhood photos would be helpful. I think it would be cool if it was Roths old truck too, but I am still HIGHLY sceptical. Theres too much stuff thats different, and its not the kind of stuff that normally would be changed. Removing all traced of the old red from the bumper and frame horns?? Re-painting the top of the dash? And then he leaves the grill in the original paint and obviously goes to a great deal of effort to preserve it??
If someone had swapped a chevy into it, I wouldn't have a problem buying that, but the perfectly preserved paint on the grill, and then he goes to great lengths to eliminate any other Traces of its Roth origins? Colour me Extremely sceptical.
Interesting detail on the car
And the engine
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This website on this link now has a big fat SOLD stamped over the lead picture.
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