Technical Early SBC 327

I recently purchased a rebuilt 327, there's no parts list or history as the engine builder past away, the owner knew the builders family and purchased a couple of engines that were in the shop. It's an early 3859512 "CE" block with a 327 crank, 461 heads and 40 over pistons.

The cylinders don't have much of a cross hatch pattern, they do have some light scratches in the bores. The lifters have a very light circular swirl wear pattern and the cam lobes all look good. The heads are a fresh rebuild.

Obviously the block has some use, my question is about the cam and lifters, does the light swirl pattern on the lifter face indicate the cam may have been broken-in?

 

Maybe. Likely it's Ok.
I know you know this but it's a disaster if you get the lifters mixed up and try to use them. If you do the only option is new lifters.
While it's down you might want to measure bore taper. You can do it with a piston ring and a feeler gauge.

There's a big difference between a rebuild and a overhaul. A rebuild, the engine is renewed by machining and is built to speck. A overhaul, the rings, head work, maybe the bearings are done in the chassis or garage floor. Folks tend to mix these terms up.
It's not really a good idea to renew the heads and not the bottom end. Sometimes this works out, sometimes not.

If nothing is obvious, I would run it and see.

 

Done a dozen "top end" overhauls. Three were total disasters! Smoked like a house afire and burned oil like a blast furnace. I wouldn't try another one. Rings and bearings are cheap compared to pulling it all down and starting over.

 

I'd be tempted to just get a new set of lifters and see what happens. Especially if you don't know what lifter goes where. IF it shows signs of being run, and it's disassembled now (?) you gotta wonder why.

 

have you checked the block/casting numbers to verify exactly what this motor is?

 

The OP gave the casting number, the ‘512 is a small journal 327 block. He did say it was 3859512, that typo may have been “fat fingers” on his part or it could be casting flash that made it appear to be an 8 instead of a 9, it should read 3959512.
The CE suffix he mentioned suggests it was an over the counter replacement short block that was never earmarked for any particular horsepower, car/truck application. Having been rebuilt we don’t know what pistons or cam it originally had. Might have been a high compression, solid lifter short block but that is a moot point today.

 

Being able to see the wear pattern on the lifters, means the lifters have been removed, eh? If you kept track of where they were removed from, and put them back in the same holes, they came from, then you should be ok to continue using them. If you mixed them up, you might or might not get lucky and not have it eat a cam lobe or two, if you put them back in random places.

So...the answer is, yeah, the cam probably was broken in, but if you mix up the lifters now, you probably want to start over with a fresh cam and lifters.

 

I guess I'm just get'n old and hate doing things twice.
Like all the others have said; at a minimum replace the lifters unless you are POSITIVE you kept them matched to the cam lobes. Even then, if you are looking at them just pull them one at a time and wipe them clean and look at them with a magnifying glass, one starting to go or all of them, either way you're going to waste a good weekend and a gasket set.

 

I would tear it down and at least install new rings. make certain the bearings are good and the timing gears and cam are good.

 

She's .040 over so it was rebuilt at some time. If there is no or light cylinder ware ( ridge at the top of the cylinder) I would go with it

 

Possibly three times.

 

Many mass rebuilt engines from the 50s and 60s seem to have .040 over pistons it seems rebuilders kept .040 pistons on stock.

 

I have to agree with them, a ring, bearing and gasket kit for that engine isn't expensive if you shop around a bit. Then you know what you have.
I agree 100% on the lifters having to go back with the exact same lobe they originally ran with. I've had more than one guy bring me a torn down engine to rebuild with the lifters tossed in a coffee can expecting to reuse them and get upset with me when I told him that they were now junk.

 

I have a CE 512 block, it’s a small journal and was cast in February of 1969. They were replacements for warranty work, check you cast date I’d be interested to know.....

 

A pic of the face of a lifter is worth a lot more info. Most new lifters have a swirl finish to them that goes away pretty quickly during break in.

Sent from my Moto G Play using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

You are dealing with a mystery engine that someone else worked on....inspect it internally like a pro would do or possibly get to install it several times...IMHO...

 

Yes the lifters do not come with the swirl pattern. They are smooth from the factory.

There are two directions you can go at this point, you can finish tearing it down and check tolerances that put it back together if everything checks out or you can button it up and run a compression check, if it check good run it until it doesn't run good.

 

Mystery engine - measure it all up and see if cyl need honed or bored. Its worth it to put new rings on fresh cyl hone, a lot of trouble if its not right.

When you get the ring, bearing, gasket kit, add a cam kit, its not much as an add on, and youll know your specs match your intended purpose.

 

Possibly if that .040 was a jobber engine like many sold by parts houses. It has a reground cam. And they put a really mild cam in those jobber engines. They wanted them to last past the warranty. If you install a cam from a long stroke engine in a short stroke engine you increase effective duration. Because of the shorter stroke.

 

A short cut build many times finds folks using carb spray and a scraper to clean the head gasket surface of the block. Problem is that carb cleaner will wash the cylinder walls down to the point that the glaze is gone and the old rings won't seal any longer. This translates into much smoke out the exhaust pipe.
If this is the case you'll want to run a glaze breaker through all the holes and re ring it. Your lifter's swirl pattern sounds normal, if there is any confusion about lifter location you will need a new bump stick and new lifters.

 

Picking a cam for a 327 is the best part of building one, gotta be 100 threads on here about it.

 

And it doesn't end there!
Every time someone asks "what are you running for a motor" you can proudly say "it's a 327".

 

I'll restart this one, it may be found by new members that didn't see it.
The OP hasn't been heard from since the day after posting this thread.
Add your thoughts, stories, experiences, etc.

 

This is an old post, but cam duration has absolutely nothing to do with crankshaft stroke.

 

You Could have the lifters resurfaced but since it's a SBC the cost of having the lifters resurfaced and shiping and handeling will probably be more then buying a new set of lifters and like @indyjps said you'll know it matches your intended purpose. It would be interesting too know that the numbers on the cam are so some one could decode it and see what it's out of,but fat chance since the OP hasn't been heard from in awhile.