Early Nailhead vs Late Flathead...Which and Why?

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I like photo ' E '

The others are nice .......but ' E ' looks the best to me......

 

I would go with the nail head due to it being the newer motor and hot rods of the time were putting in the latest motors they could get just like the street rod builders today with there late model fuel injected motors.

 

I would go with the flattie. The keep it mostly/all Ford deal is the reason why. That is just my personal taste. The Nailhead would be just as cool though.

 

Picture D grabs me the most.

I agree with what was previously stated in that those racers were running the most contemporary technology they could afford or get their hands on. Winning and record braking took prcedence over sentimentality. Technically, you're correct that there would have been very little speed equipment for the Buick. So if you're a historical purist, go flattie. If your a purist in terms of the old salt racers' attitudes and philosophies, go nailhead. Either way, you can't lose. You're going to have a killer coupe in the end. Good luck!

 

Picture E, Flathead. Stereotypical late 40's early 50's.

I would recommend the Flat motor purely because it completes the 'picture'. What I mean is that with from 50 feet, it looks the part, and has the desired early 50's 'feel', apon further investigation, the details hammer home 'the look'.

Agree'd the Nailhead would be a great choice, but, if your building 'the dream', then I'd want the whole lot, not just a comprimise on that dream for horsepower or practicality sake.

Bottom line, YOUR dream, you tell me what you see, then I say "HELL YEAH, lets start making it happen"

Cheers,

Drewfus

P.S. My dream is a 33, 3 window with a HEMI, with a stock bonnet(with bulges for the fat hemi), gloss black highboy. I used to comprimise on that theory, but I was wrong, ALL or Nothing, cause there's comprimise on a job well done, it either IS, or it's NOT. Know what I mean?

 

No technical input here. Just an opinion. Go with the nailhead but don't over dress it. That coupe needs a bare bones, no nonsense sort of mill.

For some strange reason I like the original pic with the rear axle back further. I know I shouldn't but I do.

Pete

 

Nailhead, hands down. more reliable, lots of speed parts available, probably cheaper, and more power.


and they look absolutely awesome.

i want a 471 huffed 401 in the worst way.

i like flattys, dont get me wrong. but from a reliability, and just power Point, i would just have a hard tome going with one.

i jus tthink in the end you would be money ahead, and power ahead, without sacrificing much look, to go witht he nailhead.

 

Valve covers are just extra weight and they leak.

Actually I didn’t read it all (it’s to long) so I would say, there both cool motors. It just depends what year of “traditional” you’re going after.

 

Im a Nailhead guy all the way....

If'n going fast is an objective, Id run the Nailhead...

But I am a little biased.... Ive flogged my 322 for years...

Go Buick.

 

hmmm....I'd use the flathead.


there's beauty in simplicity, and you can't get simpler than a flathead engine

 

I'd vote Nailhead...because I'm a sucker for them, and am doing all the research trying to put a '56 322 together for my car. ('53-'56 are all externally identical)

Here's some of my thinking:
The '56 322 had 9.5:1cr, and I think 255hp. Not positive about that, but can look it up fairly easily.
The no-breather valve covers from '53-mid '55 are the coolest of them all, with the old Buick crest stamped into them. I know you don't want chrome, but those look AWESOME chromed. Both the spark and valve covers.
However, a competition coupe would look equally killer with a set of finned aluminum valve covers, NOT POLISHED.
For the era, an Edmunds 2x4 intake, unpolished, would look good. The Edmunds were among the first aftermarket multi-carb intakes for the Nails...if not THE first. They absolutely look early-'50s low tech, while the Weiands look a little more technologically advanced. A Weiand unpolished would look great, tough, and probably perform better.
322 is a 4-inch bore: Moly rings or Zero Gap rings are readily available.
Later 1.6:1 ratio aluminum rockers from a 401 will drop right on the heads.
A later 401 timning chain cover will also bolt to the 322 block: you'll have to use the later fuel pump and water pump, which is a real bonus, as they're both available at NAPA. If you use the stock 322 timing chain cover, the water pump is a special order, and the fuel pump is that big gnarly looking dual-action fuel/vacuum pump to run vacuum windshield wipers. (Unless you can score a later 322 Nailhead CHEVY Truck fuel pump; then it's the more common single-action pump. But they're hard to find.)
Oh yeah, the later 401 timing cover is aluminum, so is the water pump and the fuel pump. The 322 tcover and water pump are iron. Now, it's not "period perfect" for your '54 cut-off date, BUT raw as-cast aluminum on the front of an engine always looks really tough on a competition car.
The thermostat housing neck on '56-'58 Nailheads is aluminum too. Again, misses the cut-off by a touch, but at the risk of repeating myself, raw as-cast aluminum looks really tough.
The canister-style oil filter housing is also cast aluminum--they were all painted with the block, but look good raw. There's also a spin-on conversion available, if you're so inclined. But on the car you've designed, you gotta run the canister.
Pertronix ignitions are available for the 322 dizzy, and work with a generator.
Now, the flywheel isn't something you can just order--you'll have to hunt, but they're out there.
And adapters for the 322-to-Flathead trans are always, always out there on ebay, here, or swap meets. One of the few things readily available. Don't try finding an original Buick trans--it was torque tube, but the manual trannies are really hard to come by. The Buick "Special" transmissions were a 5-bolt cover that were behind the 264, and are weak--won't live behind a 322. The 6-bolt cover trans will, but they're made of unobtainium. And the only shifter available for them was an Ansen, and they're harder to find than the trans.
The heads and pistons are different for each year of the 322, so keep that in mind. Also, I've heard that the Egge pistons have the pin height in the wrong spot in their 322 pistons, but I've also heard they fixed that. I don't know. I have an OLD set of Jahns .060 sitting on the shelf for mine. Check the height, and mill the heads/block accordingly to get the CR where it belongs.
Also, the '56 cams and lifters are cheaper than the earlier ones, so that's another thing to keep in mind.

A flatty would look good in that car, but I think "mid '40s" when I envision it with the flat motor. I think "cutting edge for the '50s" when I envision it with the Nailhead.
But then again, I'm biased.

Hope I didn't go overbored on my answer!

-Brad

 

I hear yah . . . just kicking my self for selling a really cherry west coast 3-window body for $4,000 about 8 years ago -- should NEVER have sold it! I'm now building a 34 5-window with a blown 392 hemi and Donovan 417 aluminum heads. I've never found anybody who has ran these heads on the street, but we're doing lots of work to give it a try. We think we can get enough water through them to keep it cool . . . guess we'll just have to find out. I've found so many people who talk about running things like this -- never found anybody who has actually done it (on the street that is). If it doesn't cool, then I'll have flushed a crap load of head work $$$ right down the crapper - but it's worth a chance to me. (You should see these heads, just amazing ports!).

Lots of fabrication, custom rockers, special blower drive --- too fricking much money . . . but I don't give a shit! I'm also setting it up so I can swap out the Hemi and put in a 4-71 blown Flathead. I love both of these motors -- so why not set it up to run either one. Once I get a bit further along with my "projects" -- will post some pictures. Keep in touch!

 

Get in touch with Pinstriper He had some down at Rocco and Cheaters [size=-1]Speed Shop Birmingham (205) 328-5140[/size].... I got one for my 364 from him and he had some for 264/322 and 401/425... He may also have the tranny adapter as well...

 

The flathead is cool but they didn't whip the Hemi at Daytona in 54 your target year. A mild 322 will whoop ass in a light coupe.

 

I'd say go for the Flatty. Three or four of my buddies and I all have Flathead powered rods and we have lots of fun with them. If you're going with a `49- `53 engine run an electronic dizzy and a good fuel pump with 12 volts and you'll be very happy with the driveability of Henry's venerable V8. Be reasonable with the cam like an Isky Max 1 and dont overcarburate and it'll be a great street engine. I'm sure the Nailheads are nice but IMHumbleO they belong in Buick cars. A killer `34 Ford like yours begs to be powered by the engine that really started it all, the Flathead Ford.

 

As much as I bitched about my Nailhead I do love it. Great strong running motor. The exhaust has a nice sound to it too.

Early Nailheads are hard to get info on. I've gotten conflicting answers from the pro's.

The original plan for my roadster was to put a nailhead in it with a stock 4 barrel complete with the factory air cleaner. I was gonna paint it the god awfull green too. I wanted it to look like it was pulled out of a new car in 53 and put in the roadster.

Then I thought I was getting a 3x2 intake and got 3 strombergs for it. Was gonna run the strombergs with the stock looking motor. The deal fell through on the intake and I'm not sure what I want to do. Find an intake or find the factory stuff.
Clark

 

I'd say the "lakes racer" build style necessitates a flathead. Nailheads make me think of late fifties/early sixties drag style cars. If this car were running a Buick, I could only see it with a Fireball I-8 recessed into the firewall. I'd love to see more '40s-style builds with obscure (non-Ford) engines in them.

 

Clark
What info you having trouble with? I just did a .030 rebuild on a 56 322 with cam and 401 rockers

 

Hmm...

If it's the lowest possbile ET with some durability - the nail is prolly your best bet.

Keeping with the '54 cutoff, tho - most everybody ran a flattie (or a jimmy) into the mid 50's. It was the guys with jing that ran the OHV's - the average joe couldn't afford the swap.

Either one would be period correct - only variable would be how deep your period pockets would have been. If you're building an all-out racer - yeah. Nail it. If you're building a period street hero - it's the flattie.

 

I keep thinkin I need a 30 something coupe or two dr sedan with this in it.

 

i voted nailhead.

 

One of the things I tried to find out is if the 322 and 264 flywheels were interchangable. One guy told me they had different part numbers. One guy swore they would interchange. One guy said they wouldn't. What made me ask if they would is the fact the 264 does not have a harmonic balancer most or all 322's do. I didn't know if there was some balancing issues in the flywheel.
Clark

 

For the log kit visit http://www.lakeheaders.com/

And don't count out a 364, when it's in there you can't tell the difference, but it has the bellhousing pattern of the 401/425....

 

Hack...I thought of making a log style intake but was afraid that it would look too much like the new sheetmetal intakes.
Clark

 

Brad..When you say thermostat housing are you talking about the water neck or the part that crosses over between the heads? I don't think the later cross overs fit the early motors. I had one for a 364 and it was wider.
Clark

 

303 Olds. =)

 

Ken Scott. 1958

My Hemi 4x2's gonna be a homemade unit.

 

I vote for the Buick. I replaced the 265 SBC in my '36 with a very serious blown flathead for the sound, the look, and the nostalgic sex appeal of the flattie (not to mention that it fills the engine compartment nicely). Now it's been together for 2 1/2 years, with lots of anxiety about overheating and breakdowns; I could be real interested in a lazier, more powerful, more reliable engine.

Three years ago I would probably have felt differently, but today I'd take the nailhead.

 

bein' an underdog kinda guy - I'd opt for the flattie and build the friggin' snot outta it on account of the flattie is *supposed* to lose against a built nail.

You can stroke a flattie out to a 306; if you weren't budget constrained you could opt for the Hilborn and sneak up on 240 somewhat tempermental HP. A moderately built nail would weigh in at 260-270 - the two motors would be close enough in output that a contest would be reduced to a driver's race.

Cool factor? a flattie with fuel injection is about as cool as it gets. Stu Hilborn wrote a great article on his FI systems for HR in '51, so the system would meet your cut-off date - and - Hilborn's still sellin' the setup!