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Hot Rods Early Ford transmission gurus, this isn't right is it?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by metalman, Aug 25, 2017.

  1. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,280

    metalman
    Member

    Hey guys. I got a 51 Ford F1 from hell in the shop, been pretty well cobbled together over years and I been trying to sort thru it all so I can get it out of here and the owner can drive it. It's got a 3 speed floor shift behind the flathead the owner bought to replace the 4 speed that was in it. He installed it with a new motor. Shifter just flops around like a loose noodle, I finally got it in a gear (not sure which other then a forward) but then it stuck in that gear no matter where the shifter went. Pulled the lever, looked down inside. The top of then first/ reverse shift fork is about 4" down from the cup/pin in the tower, 2nd/3rd is about 2 3/4" down. The end of the shifter is about 4 1/2" from the ball, that jives with 2/3. Now I'm not a tranny guy but I don't see how this would work. I'm I correct to assume he bought a pos tranny that needs to come back out? Least I was able to see it was stuck in 2nd and was able to get it into neutral with a long screwdriver and can roll it again.
     
  2. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 6,430

    Budget36
    Member

    I had to fix something similar on the '42 I had, but I never paid attention to where the shift forks were.

    Mine flopped around and it was hit or miss to get into gear...couldn't make the 1-2 shift, and wasn't very easy with the 2-3 either.

    I took the shifter out of the housing, and there was a nub or a notch-don't recall- that was worn to hell, not allowing full right to left -left to right movement in the tranny when meshed, so I built it up with brazing rod, filed smooth and it worked like a charm.

    Edit:

    Thinking about it...I may have built up ball on the end of the shifter some, and the notch where the ball sits in at...been many years ago.
     
  3. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 6,430

    Budget36
    Member

    Another thought, possibly the wrong shifter or housing is being used too, I think there's some differences with them that can cause the issue as well.
     
  4. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,280

    metalman
    Member

    Nothing wrong with the shifter itself, my first thought was a broken pin, all that looks good.
    I went ahead and pulled the shift tower. Here are some pics. I feel like the shift forks are not matching, notice how the notch the shifter fits into are different heights. No way this shifter fits into the 1 st/ reverse fork. Not to mention way too much room between the 2, shifter can move freely between the to forks, neutral should just be a side to side.
    DSC_0173.JPG DSC_0174.JPG
     

  5. Mac VP
    Joined: May 13, 2014
    Posts: 357

    Mac VP
    Member

    Post a picture of the bottom 8" of the shifter lever.....turn it for a couple angles with the camera and post them here.
     
  6. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,280

    metalman
    Member

    Here ya go DSC_0175.JPG DSC_0173 (1).JPG
     
  7. That's the 4 speed stick, you need a 3 speed stick
     
  8. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 16,878

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    None of my early Ford shifters have an end like that. Maybe Mac can tell us what it is from. ----I type slow, Chris sussed it.

    At first I was thinking you may have an early lever in a later trans. They are different lengths from the rotating ball to the tip.
     
  9. There are also two 3 speed speed stick. Assuming your large fork is the wide one (part number 91A-7230), you will need the longer stick (1939-up).

    I'm not even sure how that 4 speed stick would even work, but obviously it needs changed out
     
  10. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,280

    metalman
    Member

    Well, it doesn't! Must be why it has a 4 speed knob on it. OK, great. Guess I'll have to start the hunt for a shifter. Anyone have a pic of what it looks like. It does have a 91A-7230 fork.
     

  11. Not handy, but a 39 car would have had a swan shifter, pickups had a more strait shifter much like your 4 speed one except a lot thinner. Either car or truck 3 speed stick will work. I do have a couple extra Swan shifters laying around, They are what people usually want due to their shape.
     
  12. jailhousebob
    Joined: Jun 18, 2009
    Posts: 732

    jailhousebob
    Member
    from Illinois

    + 1 on the totally wrong shifter.Trans needs the late (long stub) shifter.I have some of the straight truck type as well as the swan type if you need one.
     
  13. Mac VP
    Joined: May 13, 2014
    Posts: 357

    Mac VP
    Member

    You definitely had the truck 4 speed lever there. As you now know, it will not work in the 3 speed transmission. With the 68-7222 or the 81-7222 shifter tower, you have 3 choices for a lever (all three have the same bottom stub):
    1936-37 car lever (single gentle curve out to the knob)
    1938-39 car lever (double bend out to the knob)
    1940-50 commercial lever (straight out to the knob)
    We've got the first two types available. No commercial levers at this time.
     
  14. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,280

    metalman
    Member

    Glad to hear it's just the shifter and not transmission parts. Like I said, I don't do transmissions but I thought that any pre 39 shifters wouldn't work in the 39 and later transmissions, guess from what Mac said above I was miss informed. I'll check with the owner but I'll bet he'll want the commercial straight shifter. Thanks for the help all.
     
  15. steel rebel
    Joined: Jun 14, 2006
    Posts: 3,604

    steel rebel
    Member Emeritus

    Are you sure their is a 1/4" pin in the hole in the cap where the slot is in the shifter. If not you can make one out of the end of a 1/4" drill bit.
     
  16. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,280

    metalman
    Member

    The pin was the first thing I checked. Got the problem figured out, just on the hunt for a new lever. Owner does want the straight truck style.
     
  17. steel rebel
    Joined: Jun 14, 2006
    Posts: 3,604

    steel rebel
    Member Emeritus

    Sorry I didn't see it mentioned. Thought maybe you were overlooking the obvious.
     
  18. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,280

    metalman
    Member

    Ha, ha. My customer finally admitted this was his doing. Bought the transmission without the lever. Just assumed his lever from his 4 speed would work, put it in there. Said he did notice it was a bit "loose":eek:.
    Great guy but some people can cause us with shops more grief simply by working on it first!
    Looks like Jailhouse Bob to the rescue, thanks man!
     

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